Pak91866 Posted February 13, 2020 #251 Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Habitat said: It's just too cute. Two sacrifices for the price of one. I have no truck with this sacrifice business. One guy took off for greener pastures after a few days, the other one bit the dust, permanently. Who was sacrificed, in this story, did you say ? Both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak91866 Posted February 13, 2020 #252 Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Pak91866 said: Both. Btw...I'm not a bible thumper. It was jmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak91866 Posted February 13, 2020 #253 Share Posted February 13, 2020 46 minutes ago, OpenMindedSceptic said: He didn't betray Jesus. It's a mistranslation into modern day bibles. He was in contract with him, an agreement. Did Judas understand where it might lead? Possibly not, this explains the feeling of guilt after. So are you saying Jesus told Judas to snitch him off, knowing full well Judas would blame himself and commit suicide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 13, 2020 #254 Share Posted February 13, 2020 6 hours ago, XenoFish said: Let's say that the bible is just a book of stories that are only meant to educate. If we go from this angle what would Judas betraying Jesus mean? It would be a lesson on betrayal, and the foolishness of self punishment, when salvation just needs to be accepted. Judas played a part. Jesus repeatedly said he'd die when they got to Jerusalem, and that he'd be betrayed. He had to be betrayed, and had to die. Judas was forgiven, but just wouldnt accept. And thus will have to be judged for such. Everyone is a sinner. Like @Hammerclaw said, its basically impossible not to be. The trick is to ALLOW yourself to be forgiven, and forgive yourself. To believe you are worthy of being Saved. If your willing to forgive yourself, asking others to forgive you is no great feat. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 13, 2020 #255 Share Posted February 13, 2020 As to Jesus being Gay... Whatever, it matters not for what Jesus taught. He was not without temptations. He was without SIN.... Being gay would have likely made his worldly temptations greater in scope. Yet he didnt yield to sin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted February 13, 2020 #256 Share Posted February 13, 2020 8 hours ago, docyabut2 said: I know many thought Jesus was gay by the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Gospel_of_Mark which is not true, so many gospel's written so much later are not true According to the Gospel of John, John had a special relationship with Jesus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted February 13, 2020 #257 Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 hours ago, DieChecker said: As to Jesus being Gay... Whatever, it matters not for what Jesus taught. He was not without temptations. He was without SIN.... Being gay would have likely made his worldly temptations greater in scope. Yet he didnt yield to sin. Why would Jesus having a gay relationship be sinful? If you Christians can handwave Jesus committing blasphemy as not sinful, why not homosexuality? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted February 13, 2020 #258 Share Posted February 13, 2020 5 hours ago, OpenMindedSceptic said: He didn't betray Jesus. Judas betrayed himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted February 13, 2020 #259 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Oh brother. We're all sinners. What a cop out. A pathetic excuse for being bad. But think about what sin is. What it REALY is. Sin has connotations that are not entirely within the confines of religious thinking and religious belief. Sin is knowingly and deliberately, doing the wrong thing. Period. It's knowing it's wrong and having no doubt about it, but doing it anyway deliberately. How many of you spend the greater portion of everyday NOT doing that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight bits Posted February 13, 2020 #260 Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Will Due said: Oh brother. We're all sinners. What a cop out. A pathetic excuse for being bad. Well, I do what I can. So many sins to try out, so little time. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted February 13, 2020 #261 Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, eight bits said: Well, I do what I can. So many sins to try out, so little time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted February 13, 2020 #262 Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Will Due said: Oh brother. We're all sinners. What a cop out. A pathetic excuse for being bad. But think about what sin is. What it REALY is. Sin has connotations that are not entirely within the confines of religious thinking and religious belief. Sin is knowingly and deliberately, doing the wrong thing. Period. It's knowing it's wrong and having no doubt about it, but doing it anyway deliberately. How many of you spend the greater portion of everyday NOT doing that? Hi Will The greater part of my day is spent working, building things so my focus is on doing y job properly then after work I have chores cooking ,cleaning, laundry,etc then some relax time and sleep. Now really none of that has anything to do with sinning so how much time to you think I should spend thinking about sins that I don’t have time to commit? Yes there are the occasional times I get drunk but then I am here laughing at some of the lunacy that I read what would be the point of spending time worrying about nothing jmccr8 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted February 13, 2020 #263 Share Posted February 13, 2020 13 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Will The greater part of my day is spent working, building things so my focus is on doing y job properly then after work I have chores cooking ,cleaning, laundry,etc then some relax time and sleep. Now really none of that has anything to do with sinning so how much time to you think I should spend thinking about sins that I don’t have time to commit? Yes there are the occasional times I get drunk but then I am here laughing at some of the lunacy that I read what would be the point of spending time worrying about nothing jmccr8 Be careful Jay, all that sinlessness might just get you waking up in heaven bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docyabut2 Posted February 13, 2020 #264 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Rlyeh said: According to the Gospel of John, John had a special relationship with Jesus. in this book John Mark was Jesus's young cousin .he was sixteen and Jesus heal his leg wen he was in his twelfth year and he was the first one that wrote a letter about Jesus when he was 59 years old .known in the bible was Mark Edgar Cayce readings, I have this book https://www.amazon.com/Story-Jesus-Clifford-P-Owens/dp/B004V2AERW Edited February 13, 2020 by docyabut2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted February 13, 2020 #265 Share Posted February 13, 2020 30 minutes ago, docyabut2 said: in this book John Mark was Jesus's young cousin .he was sixteen and Jesus heal his leg wen he was in his twelfth year and he was the first one that wrote a letter about Jesus when he was 59 years old .known in the bible was Mark Edgar Cayce readings, I have this book https://www.amazon.com/Story-Jesus-Clifford-P-Owens/dp/B004V2AERW John and Mark was the same person? What does Edgar Cayce have to do with anything? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WanderingFool0 Posted February 13, 2020 #266 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Wandering fool If I recall correctly he tried to give the silver back and when they wouldn't take it he threw it away so I am more inclined to view it as remorse for an action because of reflection. jmccr8 Hello jm I agree that his attempting to return the money, shows remorse, but the refusal of the priests to take the “blood money”, to me shows that there is a spiritual line of demarcation, that once crossed one can no longer be forgiven. You can not unsell the soul, or unring the bell so to speak. If, you look at the twelve apostles as various representations of humanity, being led by Jesus; the spirit, on a spiritual journey of purification leading to the anointing of the holy spirit and the receiving of the kingdom and every lasting life, than Judas represents the individual who having received the spirit and been given the gift turns back from the kingdom for money; material wealth, which is a symbol of Mammon and the lord of the earth; Satan. It is having received the spirit and still willfully choosing the world. Which, is a betrayal and rejection of the holy spirit, the kingdom and the gift of everlasting life; a betrayal that can not be forgiven. The last supper itself I think represents the exact moment that Judas and the other apostles received the final teaching and spirit of Jesus. Symbolically they drank his blood and ate his flesh; becoming his blood and flesh; becoming him. At that moment they like him received the holy spirit and were already granted and guaranteed the kingdom and eternal life. At that moment one could say they were spiritually mature and would no longer be treated by God like spiritual children which in the old Judaic system were sinless and forgivable of their actions. Judas chose the world over the spirit and he paid the price. Edited February 13, 2020 by WanderingFool0 correction 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted February 13, 2020 #267 Share Posted February 13, 2020 7 hours ago, DieChecker said: Judas was forgiven, but just wouldnt accept. Just curious, where didn't Judas accept forgiveness? 7 hours ago, DieChecker said: It would be a lesson on betrayal The lesson on this particular betrayal is that it led to the greatest and most 'loving' thing supposedly that has ever happened to the human race. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 13, 2020 #268 Share Posted February 13, 2020 7 hours ago, Rlyeh said: Why would Jesus having a gay relationship be sinful? If you Christians can handwave Jesus committing blasphemy as not sinful, why not homosexuality? Nothing sinful in any relationship. Its premarital sex which is sinful. And there was zero waya to have a gay marriage in 30 AD. God cant blaspheme God. Jesus was sent to change things, and he did. For the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted February 13, 2020 #269 Share Posted February 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, DieChecker said: Nothing sinful in any relationship. Its premarital sex which is sinful. And there was zero waya to have a gay marriage in 30 AD. When did Adam and Eve get married? 4 minutes ago, DieChecker said: God cant blaspheme God. Jesus was sent to change things, and he did. For the better. Jesus was sent to bastardize a religion that his father created, and he did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted February 13, 2020 #270 Share Posted February 13, 2020 5 hours ago, Will Due said: Oh brother. We're all sinners. What a cop out. A pathetic excuse for being bad. But think about what sin is. What it REALY is. Sin has connotations that are not entirely within the confines of religious thinking and religious belief. Sin is knowingly and deliberately, doing the wrong thing. Period. It's knowing it's wrong and having no doubt about it, but doing it anyway deliberately. How many of you spend the greater portion of everyday NOT doing that? You mean like being sanctimonious and judgmental about others while preening oneself from what one perceives as moral high ground? That would make such a person the biggest hypocrite and sinner of all, wouldn't it? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 13, 2020 #271 Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said: Just curious, where didn't Judas accept forgiveness? Hummm... I admit I havent got the Bible memorized. I thought I had remembered Jesus forgiving Judas right after he was arrested, but it actually says nothing about forgiving him. It does say, in Matthew 26:23-25. Quote 23 Jesus replied, “The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.” 25 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, “Surely you don’t mean me, Rabbi?” Jesus answered, “You have said so.” So obviously Jesus either was predicting Judas to die the way he did, or threatening/condemning him. I believe it to be the former. And Judas could have repented if he had believed he could. Quote The lesson on this particular betrayal is that it led to the greatest and most 'loving' thing supposedly that has ever happened to the human race. Multiple lessons can be taught from most scriptures. I'd agree with the one you're pointing out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted February 13, 2020 #272 Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 hours ago, WanderingFool0 said: Hello jm I agree that his attempting to return the money, shows remorse, but the refusal of the priests to take the “blood money”, to me shows that there is a spiritual line of demarcation, that once crossed one can no longer be forgiven. You can not unsell the soul, or unring the bell so to speak. If, you look at the twelve apostles as various representations of humanity, being led by Jesus; the spirit, on a spiritual journey of purification leading to the anointing of the holy spirit and the receiving of the kingdom and every lasting life, than Judas represents the individual who having received the spirit and been given the gift turns back from the kingdom for money; material wealth, which is a symbol of Mammon and the lord of the earth; Satan. It is having received the spirit and still willfully choosing the world. Which, is a betrayal and rejection of the holy spirit, the kingdom and the gift of everlasting life; a betrayal that can not be forgiven. The last supper itself I think represents the exact moment that Judas and the other apostles received the final teaching and spirit of Jesus. Symbolically they drank his blood and ate his flesh; becoming his blood and flesh; becoming him. At that moment they like him received the holy spirit and were already granted and guaranteed the kingdom and eternal life. At that moment one could say they were spiritually mature and would no longer be treated by God like spiritual children which in the old Judaic system were sinless and forgivable of their actions. Judas chose the world over the spirit and he paid the price. Satan only means adversary or accuser. Christianity took the term and made it a title for their devil. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 13, 2020 #273 Share Posted February 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, Rlyeh said: When did Adam and Eve get married? There was no need before they ate the forbidden fruit. I imagine they were very sinful after being cast out of Eden. They had several children. Quote Jesus was sent to bastardize a religion that his father created, and he did. That's one way of looking at it. What your leaving out is if it was for the better, or worse. Answer this.... Would we be better off today with global law being based on Christianity, or being based on ancient Judiasm (Islam?)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted February 13, 2020 #274 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, DieChecker said: There was no need before they ate the forbidden fruit. I imagine they were very sinful after being cast out of Eden. They had several children. No need? So what was the need for after? What way does having children imply sin? Quote That's one way of looking at it. What your leaving out is if it was for the better, or worse. Better is relative. The flu is "better" than Ebola. Quote Answer this.... Would we be better off today with global law being based on Christianity, or being based on ancient Judiasm (Islam?)? Today or when Christianity was at it's most powerful? Christianity like Judaism over time has become less oppressive. Christianity today is better than ancient Judaism, and Judaism today is better than medieval Christianity. Edited February 13, 2020 by Rlyeh 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 13, 2020 #275 Share Posted February 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, Rlyeh said: No need? So what was the need for after? Knowledge of Good and Evil. Living in a God blessed union, or not. "Not" is sinful. Thus the need for something that denotes a union made under temporal authority, with oaths to each other of love and support. Quote What way does having children imply sin? Nothing. Premarital sex is the sin. Having a child is not sinful. Conceiving the child might be though. Quote Better is relative. The flu is "better" than Ebola. True. So.... Christianity, or ancient Judiasm? Which is Ebola and which is the Flu? I can see it going either way, depending on what cherry picked references are used. Quote Today or when Christianity was at it's most powerful? Christianity like Judaism over time has become less oppressive. Either. It will be interesting to read. My initial comparison is referencing the 1st century, since the form of Judiasm I'm using as a comparison ceased to exist in the 2nd century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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