Trump’s revenge

[Big Jim]

46 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

You know where halos came from?  In medieval churchyards the church fathers put metal sheets over the saint's head to keep pigeon droppings off them.  The early ones were square, but to save metal, they started making them round.  So Trump's halo is keeping the pigeon droppings off him?

Doug

What was their function in paintings, such as this one from the 4th century, well before medieval times?

 

[Doug1029]

2 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

What was their function in paintings, such as this one from the 4th century, well before medieval times?

 

Tradition.  Later sculptors and artists forgot what the original reason was and just kept adding them.

Think I got the date off by a few centuries.

Doug

Edited February 11, 2020 by Doug1029

[Big Jim]

Just now, Doug1029 said:

Tradition.  Later sculptors and artists forgot what the original reason was and just kept adding them.

Doug

You've got that backwards.  If you're saying it started in the middle ages as a guard against pigeon droppings how could it be tradition a thousand years earlier?

[Setton]

3 hours ago, Doug1029 said:

Trump is going to hate you.

Doug

I'm sure I'll soldier on somehow. 

Which is more than General Bonespurs and Corporal Armchair can do. 

[Doug1029]

8 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

You've got that backwards.  If you're saying it started in the middle ages as a guard against pigeon droppings how could it be tradition a thousand years earlier?

Did you miss my edit?

Doug

[ian hacktorp]

17 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

Think I got the date off by a few centuries.

No worries.  I'm sure most of you 'scientific researchers' regard "a few centuries" as a minor rounding error.

Lol...

[Doug1029]

4 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

No worries.  I'm sure most of you 'scientific researchers' regard "a few centuries" as a minor rounding error.

Lol...

Do you do any kind of professional research?  What topics?

Doug

[ian hacktorp]

Just now, Doug1029 said:

Do you do any kind of professional research?  What topics?

Can you cite "professional research" for your claims about the so-called "history of the halo"?

You're the one making claims, bub.

[aztek]

lmao, complete bull crap, mixed with pigeon crap. 

Quote

A halo (from Greek ἅλως, halōs;^[1] also known as a nimbus, aureole, glory, or gloriole) is a crown of light rays, circle or disk of light^[2] that surrounds a person in art. It has been used in the iconography of many religions to indicate holy or sacred figures, and has at various periods also been used in images of rulers or heroes. In the religious art of Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam, among other religions, sacred persons may be depicted with a halo in the form of a circular glow, or flames in Asian art, around the head or around the whole body—this last one is often called a mandorla. Halos may be shown as almost any colour or combination of colours, but are most often depicted as golden, yellow or white when representing light or red when representing flames.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_(religious_iconography)

Edited February 11, 2020 by aztek

[Doug1029]

44 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Can you cite "professional research" for your claims about the so-called "history of the halo"?

You're the one making claims, bub.

OK.  So you don't do research.

Doug

[Doug1029]

1 hour ago, Big Jim said:

You've got that backwards.  If you're saying it started in the middle ages as a guard against pigeon droppings how could it be tradition a thousand years earlier?

Here is an article on halos that seems to know what it's talking about.  Seems that bird droppings is only one possibility and one that the author discounts.  Take your pick.

https://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Zarathushtrian/halo_its_origin.htm

At any rate. St. Trump doesn't have to worry about bird droppings.  He has hacktorp to shovel it.

Doug

[ian hacktorp]

3 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

Here is an article on halos that seems to know what it's talking about.  Seems that bird droppings is only one possibility and one that the author discounts.  Take your pick.

So, the only thing you've managed to find in your "professional" online search effort...actually refutes your own claim.

No small wonder why you're desperate to make this about me, rather than further expose your lackluster skills as a researcher.

You're only 71, Doug.  There is still time to learn coding...

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

5 hours ago, Doug1029 said:

This is just a look at what Trump MIGHT do; it is not written in stone.

Also, I don't think it could properly be called "revenge."  His anger would not be adequate justification, even for him.

But Trump is incompetent where anything scientific is concerned.  He already shut down the CDC branch in charge of finding a Coronavirus vaccine (He said we already have enough vaccines.).  China immediately hired a bunch of them, so now their efforts will be directed toward saving Chinese, not Americans.

We are still in the very early stages of what will probably become a pandemic.  The incubation period is 24 days.  A lot of people now infected and not symptomatic will be dead in a month.  Probable losses will exceed those of the Spanish flu - unless it can be stopped first.  And Trump is doing nothing.

Losses at the moment are over 1016 Chinese and 13 Americans.  According to China's National Health Commission, 42,638 people are currently infected.  The recovery rate, thus far, is 1.7%, which doesn't sound too promising for those 42,638 people.  Overall, the Spanish flu (which is serving as the model for this epidemic/pandemic) killed 1.1% of the total population.

Will Trump do anything about it?  Will he even try to do anything about it?  CAN he do anything about it?  We expect action and leadership from our president in the face of disaster.  Where is that leadership?  Playing golf at Mar-a-Lago?

Doug

 

Dude, the mortality rste’s about 1%, folks are more likely to die from KFC than the novel coronavirus, and those deaths are from those amongst us with compromised immune systems or dodgy lungs or who managed to p*** off the Chinese government. I’m still more worried about being shot visiting America than I am thr coronavirus.

[ian hacktorp]

13 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Dude, the mortality rste’s about 1%, folks are more likely to die from KFC than the novel coronavirus, and those deaths are from those amongst us with compromised immune systems or dodgy lungs or who managed to p*** off the Chinese government. I’m still more worried about being shot visiting America than I am thr coronavirus.

Doug has confused the terms "mortality rate" and "recovery rate" and so uses them interchangeably.

In his defense, the two terms ARE related to each other, albeit as polar opposites.

[Doug1029]

21 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Dude, the mortality rste’s about 1%, folks are more likely to die from KFC than the novel coronavirus, and those deaths are from those amongst us with compromised immune systems or dodgy lungs or who managed to p*** off the Chinese government. I’m still more worried about being shot visiting America than I am thr coronavirus.

Feel free to die in any way you choose.

Doug

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

4 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

Feel free to die in any way you choose.

Doug

Ohh I shall. It won’t be in fear spread by ignorance though.

[Doug1029]

7 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Ohh I shall. It won’t be in fear spread by ignorance though.

Why don't you try reading up on epidemic diseases, particularly coronavirus, and the ways in which they are studied?  Then you won't have to be ignorant.

Doug

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

20 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

Why don't you try reading up on epidemic diseases, particularly coronavirus, and the ways in which they are studied?  Then you won't have to be ignorant.

Doug

Why don’t you try working out the difference between an infection rate and a mortality rate. Wuhan Province has 5 million people in it, 50,000 are infected. 500 have died. You’re more likely to die by being hit by a car than coronavirus. 

[Doug1029]

2 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Why don’t you try working out the difference between an infection rate and a mortality rate. Wuhan Province has 5 million people in it, 50,000 are infected. 500 have died. You’re more likely to die by being hit by a car than coronavirus. 

We're just getting started with this epidemic.  What has happened so far is just the beginning.

BUT:  a Dr. Nichols, in a private meeting, has voiced the opinion that this will run its course in about six months, that in the end, it won't be much worse than a severe cold.  Other researchers are stopping short of that, saying we don't really know enough about it yet, that we may be using the wrong model.

Mortality Rate:  2.1% Nationwide; 4.9% Wutan Province; 3.1% Hubel Province; 0.16% in 16 other provinces.  If these rates hold up, this epidemic will be 2 to 3 times more deadly than the Spanish flu.

WHO reports 2% mortality rate, but cautions it is too early to tell.

In progress study reports mortality rate of 3%.

Death rate among patients admitted to hospital:  15%

Days from first symptoms to death:  14.

During an outbreak, the deaths/cases formula cannot be used because it estimates the death rate too low if the outcome is unknown for a significant number of cases (That's where we are now.).

Assuming that 15% of those 42,638 currently-infected patients will die will make 6395 dead within the next 14 days, plus the 1016 already dead makes 7411.  And that probably doesn't catch everybody, for example, cases not taken to a hospital.

In addition, 15% of those infected within the next two weeks will also die.  So the question is:  can we block the infection chain?

Spanish flue should have been hampered by warm weather and it was, sort of.  It dropped off, then came back with a second wave.

Doug

[Big Jim]

57 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

We're just getting started with this epidemic.  What has happened so far is just the beginning.

BUT:  a Dr. Nichols, in a private meeting, has voiced the opinion that this will run its course in about six months, that in the end, it won't be much worse than a severe cold.  Other researchers are stopping short of that, saying we don't really know enough about it yet, that we may be using the wrong model.

Mortality Rate:  2.1% Nationwide; 4.9% Wutan Province; 3.1% Hubel Province; 0.16% in 16 other provinces.  If these rates hold up, this epidemic will be 2 to 3 times more deadly than the Spanish flu.

WHO reports 2% mortality rate, but cautions it is too early to tell.

In progress study reports mortality rate of 3%.

Death rate among patients admitted to hospital:  15%

Days from first symptoms to death:  14.

During an outbreak, the deaths/cases formula cannot be used because it estimates the death rate too low if the outcome is unknown for a significant number of cases (That's where we are now.).

Assuming that 15% of those 42,638 currently-infected patients will die will make 6395 dead within the next 14 days, plus the 1016 already dead makes 7411.  And that probably doesn't catch everybody, for example, cases not taken to a hospital.

In addition, 15% of those infected within the next two weeks will also die.  So the question is:  can we block the infection chain?

Spanish flue should have been hampered by warm weather and it was, sort of.  It dropped off, then came back with a second wave.

Doug

You must be slipping Doug.  Not one word about how this is all Trump's fault.

[Doug1029]

4 hours ago, Big Jim said:

You must be slipping Doug.  Not one word about how this is all Trump's fault.

It isn't Trump's fault, at least not yet.  To date his actions have not influenced the course of the epidemic, as far as I can tell.  His firing of CDC scientists came before the fight against this new version of flu really got started.  But it is just a matter of weeks before he must decide whether to take effective action, or let the epidemic run its course.

 

To put this all in perspective:  last year (2019) there were 10,000+ flu deaths in the United States.  The new coronavirus will reach that number in China during the first week of March.  There are reports that the actual numbers of dead are quite a bit higher than those officially reported.  Crematoria processing more corpses than anybody can remember them having done, for example.

There is one other little problem:  kids.  Children are not seriously affected by the virus.  They get a few sniffles and appear to recover, but continue to spread the infection.  There likely will be a slow-down in new infections beginning in May, followed by another spike next fall/winter.  I don't have new numbers at this time because this bug isn't following other models very well.  Stay tuned.

Doug

[Doug1029]

10 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Elvis has already left the building, meaning the virus is no longer Chinese; it's worldwide, now. We can't even effectively control egress to our country to keep it out, what with unscreened illegal aliens still traipsing across our yet-to-be effectively secured borders. We need a vaccine.

There is no known case of this new coronavirus coming across the border with an illegal alien.  Your imagination is running away with you.  All 13 known cases have arrived by aircraft from the Far East.

Doug

[Big Jim]

21 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

There is no known case of this new coronavirus coming across the border with an illegal alien.  Your imagination is running away with you.  All 13 known cases have arrived by aircraft from the Far East.

Doug

Like you said, those are the known cases.  We know who they are, where they've been and where they live.  We know nothing about the hundreds of people who cross our border illegally every day.  People are just as able to fly from Asia to Mexico as to the US.  The virus could already be south of our border.  You raised the question about whether we can stop the infection chain.  We can't if all access to the country is not monitored and controlled if necessary.

[Doug1029]

9 hours ago, Big Jim said:

Like you said, those are the known cases.  We know who they are, where they've been and where they live.  We know nothing about the hundreds of people who cross our border illegally every day.  People are just as able to fly from Asia to Mexico as to the US.  The virus could already be south of our border.  You raised the question about whether we can stop the infection chain.  We can't if all access to the country is not monitored and controlled if necessary.

If those people crossing our border were from China, I'd be worried.

The China Health Agency announced this morning that the death toll has reached 1100+ and there have been nearly 45,000 hospital admissions.  There are some suspicions that the actual death toll may already exceed 10,000.

So I guess you have a point.  In that case, why isn't Trump doing anything to protect the border?

Doug

[Big Jim]

23 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

why isn't Trump doing anything to protect the border?

You're kidding, right?