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Damien99

Betelgeuse and dimming

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Damien99

What would happen if Betelgeuse kept dimming without getting brighter again?

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Bendy Demon

Since light seem to travel so god-awful slow then what we may have been seeing for centuries is the last vestiges of a star may already be long-gone and its dying light has taken this long just to get to us.

Edited by Bendy Demon
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Damien99

Thank you but my question is does a star keep dimming  until it goes super nova or does it get brighter and brighter before it goes?

Edited by Damien99

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Piney
4 minutes ago, Damien99 said:

What would happen if Betelgeuse kept dimming without getting brighter again?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betelgeuse

Quote

Due to misunderstandings caused by the 2009 publication of the star's 15% contraction, apparently of its outer atmosphere,[50][98] Betelgeuse has frequently been the subject of scare stories and rumors suggesting that it will explode within a year, leading to exaggerated claims about the consequences of such an event.[144][145] The timing and prevalence of these rumors have been linked to broader misconceptions of astronomy, particularly to doomsday predictions relating to the Mayan calendar.[146][147] Betelgeuse is not likely to produce a gamma-ray burst and is not close enough for its x-rays, ultraviolet radiation, or ejected material to cause significant effects on Earth.[12] Following the dimming of Betelgeuse in December 2019,[67][54] reports appeared in the science and mainstream media that again included speculation that the star might be about to go supernova – even in the face of scientific research that a supernova is not expected for perhaps 100,000 years.[148] Some outlets reported the magnitude as faint as +1.3 as an unusual and interesting phenomenon, like Astronomy magazine,[57] the National Geographic,[60] and the Smithsonian.[149] Some mainstream media, like The Washington Post,[61] ABC News in Australia,[62] and Popular Science,[150] reported that a supernova was possible but unlikely, whilst other outlets portrayed a supernova as a realisitic possibility. CNN, for example, chose the headline "A giant red star is acting weird and scientists think it may be about to explode,"[151] while The New York Post declared Betelgeuse as "due for explosive supernova."[63] Phil Plait has again written to correct what he calls "Bad Astronomy," noting that Betelgeuse's recent behaviour "[w]hile unusual ... isn't unprecedented. Also, it probably won't go bang for a long, long time."[152] Dennis Overbye of The New York Times seems to agree writing, "Is Betelgeuse about to blow? Probably not, but astronomers are having fun thinking about it."[153]

 

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Damien99
6 minutes ago, Piney said:

Thank you but my question is does a star keep dimming  until it goes super nova or does it get brighter and brighter before it goes?

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Piney
26 minutes ago, Damien99 said:

Thank you but my question is does a star keep dimming  until it goes super nova or does it get brighter and brighter before it goes?

Depends. Have a read. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova

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Damien99
2 minutes ago, Piney said:

Depends. Have a read. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova

thank you

I have read those but do not grasp the concept. 

for example they says something wierd with betelguese dimming. I always though a dimming star will continue to dim until it goes supernova. But some media articles seem to make it sound like it will brighten again before supernova?
 

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Piney
Just now, Damien99 said:

for example they says something wierd with betelguese dimming. I always though a dimming star will continue to dim until it goes supernova. But some media articles seem to make it sound like it will brighten again before supernova?

Journalistic articles add or exaggerate details. CNN just made stuff up. It shows a pattern of dimming and brightening, but it not expected to go yet.

It will dim down, then go boom sometime in the near future, but not that near and it's all we know. 

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Damien99

so a star like betelguese will keep dimming until it goes supernova then

right now it is just dimming so if it keeps up one days who knows when will go supernova 

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sci-nerd
7 minutes ago, Damien99 said:

thank you

I have read those but do not grasp the concept. 

for example they says something wierd with betelguese dimming. I always though a dimming star will continue to dim until it goes supernova. But some media articles seem to make it sound like it will brighten again before supernova?
 

Quote

All red supergiants will exhaust the helium in their cores within one or two million years and then start to burn carbon. This continues with fusion of heavier elements until an iron core builds up, which then inevitably collapses to produce a supernova. The time from the onset of carbon fusion until core collapse is no more than a few thousand years. In most cases, core collapse occurs while the star is still a red supergiant, the large remaining hydrogen-rich atmosphere is ejected, and this produces a type II supernova spectrum. The opacity of this ejected hydrogen decreases as it cools and this causes an extended delay to the drop in brightness after the initial supernova peak, the characteristic of a type II-P supernova.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_supergiant_star#Evolution

 

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bison
56 minutes ago, Damien99 said:

What would happen if Betelgeuse kept dimming without getting brighter again?

Betelgeuse has several patterns of regular dimming, from which it thereafter recovers. These dimmings are somewhat variable in their depth.  This current dimming may be a deeper-than-usual temporary dimming. The minimum light output is expected on February 21st. plus or minus seven days.If the brightness does not begin to ramp up again after that, there will be more reason to consider that something very unusual may be happening to this star.     

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Damien99

So then as per the wiki post this dimming now could be a sign it will dim until it goes supernova then? That’s what I thought 

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Damien99
1 minute ago, bison said:

Betelgeuse has several patterns of regular dimming, from which it thereafter recovers. These dimmings are somewhat variable in their depth.  This current dimming may be a deeper-than-usual temporary dimming. The minimum light output is expected on February 21st. plus or minus seven days.If the brightness does not begin to ramp up again after that, there will be more reason to consider that something very unusual may be happening to this star.     

Unusual as possible supernova or something dangerous to us?

Edited by Damien99

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Piney
Just now, Damien99 said:

Unusual as possible supernova or something dangerous to us?

Nothing dangerous to us. Just a awesome sight. :yes:

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Damien99

So that’s it if the dimming continues and does not brighten then it is a sign it may go supernova

so when the articles say if it keeps dimming it’s something unusual pretty much means it should brighten but if not it can go supernova then?

see I read unusual of it keeps dimming who know what could happen. 

Edited by Damien99

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bison

If Betelgeuse begins to brighten slowly again by the end of February, its not any more likely to go supernova then than at any other time within the next 100 thousand years. Even if it should go supernova, Betelgeuse is far enough away that it isn't expected to do us any harm.     

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Damien99
4 minutes ago, bison said:

If Betelgeuse begins to brighten slowly again by the end of February, its not any more likely to go supernova then than at any other time within the next 100 thousand years. Even if it should go supernova, Betelgeuse is far enough away that it isn't expected to do us any harm.     

So what does it mean the outcome is if it does not stop dimming? That’s my question will it cause something different than expected or unknown which could have a different outcome to us

 

thats my confusion it is still dimming and shows no sign of stopping as of yet, what could that mean?

Edited by Damien99

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Damien99

Continuous dimming is still a sign of supernova outcome ? Am I correct 

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susieice
1 hour ago, Bendy Demon said:

Since light seem to travel so god-awful slow then what we may have been seeing for centuries is the last vestiges of a star may already be long-gone and its dying light has taken this long just to get to us.

I thought this would be correct also. What light we see now took 650 yrs to reach us. If Betelgeuse novas, we won't see it until 2670. 

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bison

If Betelgeuse continues to dim past the end of February, we have a few possibilities. 

1.)  Its a longer, and deeper-than-usual temporary dip, caused by the internal activity of the star. 

2. ) Its a dip caused by a unusually large starspot, blocking the star's light, also very probably temporary.

3.) The dip can be explained by thicker-than-usual debris around the star.

4. The star may be on the way to a full-scale collapse, giving rise to a supernova. This would appear to us as a more-or-less continuous dimming, before a huge increase in brightness. The odds of this happening now are very low, considering that it could happen at  any time over the  next 1000 centuries, with more or less equal probability. 

I emphasize that none of these possibilities, including a supernova, suggests anything dangerous to our planet.   

 

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Damien99

So it will eventually brighten again and not just Dim until it’s gone then 

 

so what’s this very usual talk then?

Edited by Damien99

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bison
14 minutes ago, susieice said:

I thought this would be correct also. What light we see now took 650 yrs to reach us. If Betelgeuse novas, we won't see it until 2670. 

True, a supernova at Betelgeuse right now won't be seen for centuries. If we see it supernova soon, this will actually have occurred about the year 1380.

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Dejarma
2 hours ago, Bendy Demon said:

Since light seem to travel so god-awful slow

compared to what?

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bison
8 minutes ago, Damien99 said:

So it will eventually brighten again and not just Dim until it’s gone then 

 

so what’s this very usual talk then?

Betelgeuse stands a very good chance of gradually brightening again, and going about its business for a very long time to come. If it doesn't, we don't expect it to simple fade away, though. 

People like to consider unusual possibilities, and the exceptional. A supernova is one of those possibilities. 

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sci-nerd
9 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

compared to what?

Compared to the huge distances between stars.

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