bee Posted February 9, 2020 #1 Share Posted February 9, 2020 First of all - what is 5G....? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G 5G is the fifth generation wireless technology for digital cellular networks that began wide deployment in 2019. As with previous standards, the covered areas are divided into regions called "cells", serviced by individual antennas. Virtually every major telecommunication service provider in the developed world is deploying antennas or intends to deploy them soon. The frequency spectrum of 5G is divided into millimeter waves, mid-band and low-band. Low-band uses a similar frequency range as the predecessor, 4G. I personally have seen enough about 5G so far to make me very concerned about it's safety - and on another thread was asked to provide Peer Reviewed information... a quick search brought this up so I will kick the thread off with it... Environmental Health Trust Peer Reviewed Published Science On Radiation From 4G/5G “Small” Cell Wireless Antennas “Small cells” are microwave antennas (basically shorter cell towers) rapidly being installed in public areas on utility poles and street lights in front of homes, parks and schools. Just like cell towers, these wireless antennas generate and emit microwave radiofrequency (RF) radiation to transmit 2G, 3G and 4G network signals. Companies soon plan to add a new technology called 5G which will use current 4G technology plus even higher frequencies. The higher frequencies include millimeter-wave emissions that were not previously released into public areas. Companies state that these 4G and 5G antennas will increase the wireless radiation levels in the area so much that they are working to loosen several governments’ radiation limits in order to roll it out. More than 240 scientists published an appeal to the United Nations to reduce public exposure and called for a moratorium on 5G citing “established” adverse biological effects of RF radiation. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted February 9, 2020 Author #2 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) This is a HUGE subject - and it's hard to know where to start... and I'm only learning about it myself but the main thing is that what makes 5G different from the other generations of wireless technology is the use of higher frequency millimeter waves.... https://www.livescience.com/65959-5g-network.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The new network Since the earliest generation of mobile phones, wireless networks have operated on the same radio-frequency bands of the electromagnetic spectrum. But as more users crowd the network and demand more data than ever before, these radio-wave highways become increasingly congested with cellular traffic. To compensate, cellular providers want to expand into the higher frequencies of millimeter waves. Millimeter waves use frequencies from 30 to 300 gigahertz, which are 10 to 100 times higher than the radio waves used today for 4G and WiFi networks. They're called millimeter because their wavelengths vary between 1 and 10 millimeters, where as radio waves are on the order of centimeters. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Everyone I know, including me, is recommending more research on 5G because there's not a lot of toxicology studies with this technology," Foster said. For the proponents of 5G, many believe the benefits 5G can provide to society far outweigh the unknowns. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It's the 'unknowns' that are of concern.... For example the effect on insects, birds, small mammals, including pets...... and that's before the 'unknowns' about the short and long term effects on human health and well being... The companies involved in making vast amounts of money from the 5G network and roll out are going to be reluctant to really take on board the dangers... and there seems to be an unseemly rush to get it out before the General Public really have time to understand what's going on... Like it's being rushed out while it's still under the RADAR.... then when it's established it will be difficult to reverse the process... especially when politicians probably don't realize what's going on and are focused on it's contribution to the economy.... rather than the environment and human health... I have a feeling that if the public were aware of the real dangers involved it would probably be stopped and this is why ignorance about it all is encouraged... they don't want the Cash Cow stopped... Take for example the potential effect on small bodied birds... the kind we have in our gardens and enjoy feeding, watching and listening to... I can't imagine life without the birds - and when the transmitters are turned on near houses etc... the birds might all disappear from our gardens.. ? But as the high frequency millimeter waves will probably kill all the insects any where near it... that will also affect birds.. it's a knock on effect ... Edited February 9, 2020 by bee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted February 9, 2020 Author #3 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Last year there was a so called 'mysterious' death of hundreds of starlings in Anglesey .... what's the betting that this was something to do with 5G testing .... Police Investigate Mysterious Deaths of Hundreds of Birds that 'Dropped From Sky' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted February 9, 2020 #4 Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 hour ago, bee said: and on another thread was asked to provide Peer Reviewed information. You were actually asked to provide peer-reviewed articles published in scientific journals. Whenever you're ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted February 9, 2020 #5 Share Posted February 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, bee said: Last year there was a so called 'mysterious' death of hundreds of starlings in Anglesey .... what's the betting that this was something to do with 5G testing .... Police Investigate Mysterious Deaths of Hundreds of Birds that 'Dropped From Sky' I'll take that bet. They flew into the road, probably due to glare from the sun. Which even a 2 minute Google search would have revealed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted February 9, 2020 #6 Share Posted February 9, 2020 29 minutes ago, Setton said: I'll take that bet. They flew into the road, probably due to glare from the sun. Which even a 2 minute Google search would have revealed. flew into the road?! Glare from the sun? Doesn't look particularly sunny there. Now before you start, I'm not saying that is obviously must be because of secret 5 dimensional radio telephone testing, but that explanation seems a bit of a stretch, 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted February 9, 2020 #7 Share Posted February 9, 2020 49 minutes ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said: flew into the road?! Glare from the sun? Doesn't look particularly sunny there. Now before you start, I'm not saying that is obviously must be because of secret 5 dimensional radio telephone testing, but that explanation seems a bit of a stretch, Seems to be the most plausible and accepted one if you care to look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted February 10, 2020 Author #8 Share Posted February 10, 2020 12 hours ago, Setton said: I'll take that bet. They flew into the road, probably due to glare from the sun. Which even a 2 minute Google search would have revealed. very funny 11 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said: flew into the road?! Glare from the sun? Doesn't look particularly sunny there. Now before you start, I'm not saying that is obviously must be because of secret 5 dimensional radio telephone testing, but that explanation seems a bit of a stretch, bolded..... haha I think it's safe to say he's having us on..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted February 10, 2020 Author #9 Share Posted February 10, 2020 12 hours ago, Setton said: You were actually asked to provide peer-reviewed articles published in scientific journals. Whenever you're ready. is this the kind of thing you meant...? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6765906/ now that was funded by a German Telecom company and although the authors claim to have no conflicts of interest - you have to wonder if a company would just shut down a billion, trillion pound / euro / dollar section of their industry if they got a really bad report... so would they pitch it on the fence...? I've had a quick read through and that's the impression I get that it is quite non committal ... Which I think is how the 5G companies like it... nothing definite ... for example.. There are also questions about the environmental impact, with potential consequences for human health. Since many MMW devices will be installed in the environment, the impact of MMW on insects, plants, bacteria, and fungi is relevant to investigate. Particularly relevant is the question of temperature increase in very small organisms, as the depth of penetration of the MMW could warm the whole organism. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In summary, the majority of studies with MMW exposures show biological responses. From this observation, however, no in-depth conclusions can be drawn regarding the biological and health effects of MMW exposures in the 6–100 GHz frequency range. The studies are very different and the total number of studies is surprisingly low. The reactions occur both in vivo and in vitro and affect all biological endpoints studied. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted February 10, 2020 Author #10 Share Posted February 10, 2020 As 5G is rolled out in different cities / areas in the UK.... https://ee.co.uk/why-ee/5g-on-ee/5g-uk-coverage... these are early days and as there are no in depth long term studies, I feel that this first stage is experimental, in terms of the effects on the environment and human health... the thing that really annoys me is that there's going to be no opt out... and they keep saying about how much it will change people's lives and society in general... and yet there is no serious public discussion and no one is bothering to ask if we WANT it... it's just being forced on us.... like.... you're having it and that's that... They always use the example that a film will be able to be downloaded in seconds... well big deal... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted February 10, 2020 #11 Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 hours ago, bee said: very funny bolded..... haha I think it's safe to say he's having us on..... Honestly, look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted February 10, 2020 #12 Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 hours ago, bee said: is this the kind of thing you meant...? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6765906/ That's exactly the kind of thing. Well done. You are right to draw attention to the source of funding. However, you should also note that this is a metastudy. While the weight they assign studies might be affected by biases, the results of the underlying studies are not affected by the source of funding. This is where peer review comes in to help minimise biases. Do let me know when you find one that supports your claim. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted February 11, 2020 #13 Share Posted February 11, 2020 On 2/10/2020 at 6:39 AM, Dumbledore the Awesome said: flew into the road?! Glare from the sun? Doesn't look particularly sunny there. Now before you start, I'm not saying that is obviously must be because of secret 5 dimensional radio telephone testing, but that explanation seems a bit of a stretch, Quote Announcing the findings on its Twitter page, Rob Taylor, team manager at the rural crime team, said: "Please bear in mind that the full toxicology has not been received, so a final theory cannot be confirmed, but we are quite sure of the reasons and cause of deaths to the birds. "The trauma supports the case that the birds died from impact with the road. "It's highly likely the murmuration took avoiding action whilst airborne, from possibly a bird of prey, with the rear of the group not pulling up in time and striking the ground. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/weird-news/mass-starlings-death-mystery-probe-21295986 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted February 11, 2020 #14 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Quote Where does 5G sit on the electromagnetic spectrum? ... Our current 4G mobile phone networks run at frequencies between 700 megahertz and a few gigahertz (one gigahertz is a billion cycles per second). The new 5G network uses two main bands: one under 6 gigahertz, plus another one above 24 gigahertz. This is fast, for radio waves, but it's still a much lower frequency than visible light, which comes in at hundreds of thousands of gigahertz. So the 5G network will send data to your phone faster than 3G or 4G, but the signal will also be more easily blocked by buildings and other inconvenient obstacles. Ionising and non-ionising radiation ... In the electromagnetic spectrum, there's a barrier between ionising radiation and non-ionising radiation: it's the colour violet. Anything with a higher frequency than violet light can cause cancer. Wait, didn't some rats get cancer? ... hat might sound like evidence that non-ionising radiation can cause cancer after all. But when you look at the statistics, the numbers of rodents with cancer were very low — all in the single digits. Those very small numbers are a very big problem, when it comes to interpreting the findings. Neurologist Dr Steven Novella from Yale University said the low numbers and the inconsistency in the results were important: "It limits the applicability of the results, and suggests they may be just random noise or due to some confounding factor." However, this study is often held up as evidence clinching the case for mobile phone radiation causing cancer in humans, and reducing our life expectancy — which is strange, when some of the animals exposed to radiation actually lived longer than the controls. Who's spreading 5G fake news? So where else is this fear-mongering news about mobile phones and 5G coming from? According to the New York Times, a major source of disinformation about the 5G network has been the Russian TV network Russia Today (RT), which is available worldwide. RT claims the 5G network poses risks including "brain cancer, infertility, autism, heart tumours and Alzheimer's disease". There is zero scientific proof for these claims — especially considering the 5G network has been running only in a very few locations, and only since the beginning of 2019. RT has run segments with titles including "A Dangerous Experiment on Humanity", "5G Apocalypse", and "Could 5G Put More Kids At Risk For Cancer?". But where does RT get its data from? It's certainly not from science. Guardian reporter Tim Dowling wrote that fringe opinions take centre stage at RT. "Reporting is routinely bolstered by testimony from experts you have never heard of, representing institutions you have never heard of," he wrote. Even more surprising is that while RT claims there are massive health risks from the 5G network, Russian President Vladimir Putin is a very big promoter of the 5G network. Mr Putin said: "The challenge for the upcoming years is to organise universal access to high-speed internet, to start operation [of] the fifth-generation communication systems." But RT is not alone in pushing the anti-5G agenda. The same folk who specialise in anti-technology, anti-sunscreen and anti-vaccine beliefs can be found peddling 5G hysteria. They'll sell you machines that generate "good" electromagnetic radiation to protect you from "bad" electromagnetic radiation — at a cost of a few hundred dollars. If that's not your cup of tea, they recommend various supplements claiming to improve our health and "raise our vibrations". Just what frequency they raise our vibrations to is not clear. Let's hope it's in the non-ionising range. To those with 5G concerns ... In terms of cancer, it's worth considering that if non-ionising radiation does turn out to be carcinogenic — and this has still not been proven — it will almost certainly be a less effective carcinogen than sunlight and alcohol, which are proven cancer-causing agents that we interact with on a daily basis. ... https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-08-28/is-5g-safe-dr-karl-radiation-explainer/11416070 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Walt' E. Kurtz Posted February 11, 2020 #15 Share Posted February 11, 2020 5G must be five grand ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted February 11, 2020 Author #16 Share Posted February 11, 2020 45 minutes ago, 'Walt' E. Kurtz said: 5G must be five grand ;-) Maybe five grand ( + ) off the selling price of a property with a 5G transmitter right outside .... which will be a LOT of houses... people tend to get more focused when it hits their pocket.. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted February 11, 2020 Author #17 Share Posted February 11, 2020 17 hours ago, Setton said: That's exactly the kind of thing. Well done. You are right to draw attention to the source of funding. However, you should also note that this is a metastudy. While the weight they assign studies might be affected by biases, the results of the underlying studies are not affected by the source of funding. This is where peer review comes in to help minimise biases. Do let me know when you find one that supports your claim. (what claim exactly are you referring to..?) and ditto to you re the bird deaths in Anglesey .... (in a scientific journal, of course as that's your standard) @Golden Duck I see you are pitching in with the Anglesey Bird deaths.... well if you believe the official tentative and speculative explanations for that you will believe anything... My guess is that it was either accidental from a 5G test or the birds were targeted to see what frequencies knocked them out of the sky... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted February 11, 2020 #18 Share Posted February 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, bee said: (what claim exactly are you referring to..?) and ditto to you re the bird deaths in Anglesey .... (in a scientific journal, of course as that's your standard) @Golden Duck I see you are pitching in with the Anglesey Bird deaths.... well if you believe the official tentative and speculative explanations for that you will believe anything... My guess is that it was either accidental from a 5G test or the birds were targeted to see what frequencies knocked them out of the sky... As an example, Wi-fi and a microwave oven use the same frequency. How does 5G cause damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted February 11, 2020 Author #19 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Golden Duck said: So the 5G network will send data to your phone faster than 3G or 4G, but the signal will also be more easily blocked by buildings and other inconvenient obstacles. (the above is from the quote / link you provided....) as I said before I'm only learning about all this myself but I have picked up on the above because what I am gathering is that the radio wavelengths and frequencies used for the other generations of wireless technology pass through us and more or less everything else like buildings, trees etc... but 5G is different and because of the shorter wavelengths and higher frequency it does not go through obstacles so easily.... this is why (people are claiming but of course colluding authorities will deny...) thousands of mature trees are being cut down in cities (like for example Liverpool and Bristol ? ) to make way for 5G.... re quote above.... and WE are examples of 'inconvenient obstacles' including our children and pets.. so those microwaves will not just pass through us but will be impacting the surface skin.... and this is what initial studies appear to be looking at and how this heats up the body and what affect that has... but remember there is NO long term study because all this is new and being rushed out... that's why something small like an insect or small bird will be more affected... for example a chicken would take longer to cook in a micro wave oven than a sparrow would... a crow or magpie would be a little bit more resilient to the 5G transmitters on all the lamp posts than a sparrow, robin or blue tit... I think the bigger birds would be able to pass through but would start to avoid the ''''contaminated'''' areas over time... ??? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted February 11, 2020 #20 Share Posted February 11, 2020 18 minutes ago, bee said: (the above is from the quote / link you provided....) as I said before I'm only learning about all this myself but I have picked up on the above because what I am gathering is that the radio wavelengths and frequencies used for the other generations of wireless technology pass through us and more or less everything else like buildings, trees etc... but 5G is different and because of the shorter wavelengths and higher frequency it does not go through obstacles so easily.... this is why (people are claiming but of course colluding authorities will deny...) thousands of mature trees are being cut down in cities (like for example Liverpool and Bristol ? ) to make way for 5G.... re quote above.... and WE are examples of 'inconvenient obstacles' including our children and pets.. so those microwaves will not just pass through us but will be impacting the surface skin.... and this is what initial studies appear to be looking at and how this heats up the body and what affect that has... but remember there is NO long term study because all this is new and being rushed out... that's why something small like an insect or small bird will be more affected... for example a chicken would take longer to cook in a micro wave oven than a sparrow would... a crow or magpie would be a little bit more resilient to the 5G transmitters on all the lamp posts than a sparrow, robin or blue tit... I think the bigger birds would be able to pass through but would start to avoid the ''''contaminated'''' areas over time... ??? To boil it down, you're worried about being cooked rather than cancer, right? Directed Energy Weapons are a thing already. The difference between Wifi and microwaves is focus and energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted February 11, 2020 Author #21 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Golden Duck said: To boil it down, you're worried about being cooked rather than cancer, right? but maybe the low level 24/7 cooking could cause cancer and / or other health issues and mental issues because the human organism is a finely balanced thing integrated into the environment and the atmosphere..... something un-natural being introduced like microwaves is going to upset the balance and this is what the studies are looking at hopefully... 1 minute ago, Golden Duck said: Directed Energy Weapons are a thing already. The difference between Wifi and microwaves is focus and energy. the thing is.... wifi and microwaves are to become one and the same at various? wavelengths and frequencies... so there will be no difference... and THAT'S the problem... tiny tiny microwave energy beams everywhere from all angles.... no opt out, no escape..... (that's my understanding at the moment) believe me... I would be VERY happy if the 5G network was going to be safe for humans, pets, animals and birds and insects (and plants?)....... but at the moment I don't think it is looking like it IS safe - (or desirable) but it's being rolled out all over Britain and the World anyway... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted February 11, 2020 #22 Share Posted February 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, bee said: but maybe the low level 24/7 cooking could cause cancer and / or other health issues and mental issues because the human organism is a finely balanced thing integrated into the environment and the atmosphere..... something un-natural being introduced like microwaves is going to upset the balance and this is what the studies are looking at hopefully... the thing is.... wifi and microwaves are to become one and the same at various? wavelengths and frequencies... so there will be no difference... and THAT'S the problem... tiny tiny microwave energy beams everywhere from all angles.... no opt out, no escape..... (that's my understanding at the moment) believe me... I would be VERY happy if the 5G network was going to be safe for humans, pets, animals and birds and insects (and plants?)....... but at the moment I don't think it is looking like it IS safe - (or desirable) but it's being rolled out all over Britain and the World anyway... You're talking about light. A lower frequency light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted February 11, 2020 Author #23 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Golden Duck said: You're talking about light. A lower frequency light. I'm not sure if you are just throwing out remarks like that to make it look like 5G is safe and people are silly for questioning the wisdom of having it.... or if you really believe it IS ok and you would have a transmitter very near you and your family and pets without any qualms...? The 5G roll out in the UK is happening by stealth.... and is merrily preparing for the day it is everywhere... but the General Public are more or less in the dark about the details and potential problems... I mentioned house prices earlier... and I anticipate that distance from a 5G transmitter will become a selling point soon... and those with one smack bang outside their property will not be happy about that... even if they aren't convinced about the threat to their own safety... (and that of their family and pets...) edit to add...... the thing about light..... I'm going to have to research that a bit because it's a big subject... ie isn't everything 'light' anyway...?..... I may have to go back to my old friend Bruce Cathie to refresh myself on that subject.. .. you're in Australia I think... Bruce Cathie (RIP) was in New Zealand... Edited February 11, 2020 by bee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted February 11, 2020 #24 Share Posted February 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, bee said: I'm not sure if you are just throwing out remarks like that to make it look like 5G is safe and people are silly for questioning the wisdom of having it.... or if you really believe it IS ok and you would have a transmitter very near you and your family and pets without any qualms...? The 5G roll out in the UK is happening by stealth.... and is merrily preparing for the day it is everywhere... but the General Public are more or less in the dark about the details and potential problems... I mentioned house prices earlier... and I anticipate that distance from a 5G transmitter will become a selling point soon... and those with one smack bang outside their property will not be happy about that... even if they aren't convinced about the threat to their own safety... (and that of their family and pets...) But, it is light. What makes it dangerous is focus and power. You have a radio, TV, wifi, microwave and lightbulbs in your house, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted February 11, 2020 #25 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 70 towns and cities in the UK currently have 5G, and have had since 2019. Edited February 11, 2020 by stevewinn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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