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Eldorado

Deputy threatens to shoot "truant" student

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Eldorado

"The video starts as the incident is already in progress.

"Miller’s son, William Miller, is in a pickup, trying to exit the student lot.

"A school resource officer with the Sheriff’s Office and Cindy Bond, a River Ridge discipline assistant, are blocking the exit lane.

"The three argue over whether William can leave the campus.

"He says he has permission, they say he is truant.

"The situation escalates quickly, however, when the deputy threatens to shoot William about 16 seconds in."

Full monty at Tampa Bay Times: https://www.tampabay.com/news/pasco/2020/02/07/video-of-pasco-deputy-threatening-to-shoot-a-student-is-going-viral/

And at the Huff Post: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/deputy-threatened-to-shoot-student_n_5e418748c5b6f1f57f166905?

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RoofGardener

Yeeeeesss... umm... he threatens to shoot the driver if the driver keeps on heading towards him

Slight difference ? 

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Myles

They were all idiots, but the guard guy was the worst.   What a jerk!     He's pretty arrogant for being a parking lot guard.   He called the boy out for cursing while he himself cursed.  

I've never seen a school that would stop student from leaving like this.   

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South Alabam

They said they weren't blocking him yet the buggy is clearly parked in front of his truck at the stop sign. They did pull there intentionally to stop him from exiting, or else they would have drive that buggy on the street of which it is clearly not designated to drive on.

The kid should have told them he had an appointment and that the school had been notified, and there would have been no reason for his expulsion other than cursing. He would not have been truant, nor defied authority if he did indeed have an appointment and his mother notified them as described.

The kid was wrong to turn his vehicle towards the Officer in an attempt to make him move, but the Officer is clearly wrong to suggest lethal force, as he said he would rather than simply step aside. This is what is wrong with Police in this country, absolute right of execution and most DA's and the Police Union will back them up almost 100% of the time. Police powers need to go.

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Desertrat56

Good Lord!!! If a 17 year old needs to or wants to leave campus let them.  the consequences should be in their grades and non of anyone else's business.  Seems like a really bad attitude in the school and the sheriff's department.

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OverSword

The cop is right.  He is a minor who the school is responsible for and is not allowed to leave without adult permission.  He said if you run into me you're going to get shot.  Running into a person with a vehicle is assault with a deadly weapon and the cop would be in his rights to shoot him, so fair warning.  At some point though, the obvious end result here is that they have to let the kid leave and discipline him after that infraction has occurred, probably by suspension.

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Myles

I'm not sure why the rent-a-cop didn't just call the main office and ask if the student had permission.  

I also think that getting expelled for this must mean that the kid had more stuff on his record. 

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Desertrat56
11 minutes ago, OverSword said:

The cop is right.  He is a minor who the school is responsible for and is not allowed to leave without adult permission.  He said if you run into me you're going to get shot.  Running into a person with a vehicle is assault with a deadly weapon and the cop would be in his rights to shoot him, so fair warning.  At some point though, the obvious end result here is that they have to let the kid leave and discipline him after that infraction has occurred, probably by suspension.

Total unnessessary bull **** drama.  All the deputy has to do is step aside, he isn't going to let himself get run over and threatening with a gun should be illegal on school property.  Absolutely unreasonable, both the deputy and the discipline person should be fired.  At the very least they could have called the office and verified the student had permission to leave.    I could see someone stopping a 7 year old from leaving school or requireing a parent come pick up a 15 year old for an appointment but not after 15.

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OverSword
31 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Total unnessessary bull **** drama.  All the deputy has to do is step aside, he isn't going to let himself get run over and threatening with a gun should be illegal on school property.  Absolutely unreasonable, both the deputy and the discipline person should be fired.  At the very least they could have called the office and verified the student had permission to leave.    I could see someone stopping a 7 year old from leaving school or requireing a parent come pick up a 15 year old for an appointment but not after 15.

He didn't threaten him with a gun.  His gun was in the holster.  He told him what would happen should he hit him with his truck.  17 year old children can not do whatever they please.  You don't know that they wouldn't have verified he had permission to leave because he wasn't giving them a chance to do so.  My guess is the woman with the little golf cart is familiar with this kid and knowing 17 year old's I bet he was probably leaving to get high.  It doesn't matter what age you think (apparently 15 years old) that a kid can do whatever he wants despite what the people in charge of him are telling him to do, under 18 you have little say so in this situation.  The people ordering him not to leave are legally responsible should he drive away and get in a car accident or for anything else he does.  His parents sent him to school with the expectation that he would receive supervision and that's what happened.

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OverSword
48 minutes ago, Myles said:

I'm not sure why the rent-a-cop didn't just call the main office and ask if the student had permission.  

I also think that getting expelled for this must mean that the kid had more stuff on his record. 

It's not a rent-a-cop, it's a deputy with the sheriffs department assigned to the school. 

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WanderingFool0

The whole situation was ridiculous. Like I others, I agree that once the student was identified they should have let him go and checked if he was indeed truant. If he was then he could be dealt with the next school day when he returned voluntarily and without incident. It is clear that the authorities in the situation were more worried about exercising their power and control in this situation.

I am all for children having the right to education, but I am against enforced education and truancy laws in general. The truancy laws have little to do with the welfare and education of the students anyway and are more about the school district making money from the government.

Many school officials don’t really care if the students come to school or not, they only grow concerned because according to the government a student has to be in school x number of days a year for them to receive the money allotment that, that student is worth. It’s primarily a budgeting and profit concern. Personally I find it sad that through the truancy system we have reduced our children to herd of cattle that most be corralled and controlled for profit.

It also is one of the reasons that many of our schools are devolving into glorified children's prisons, with barb wired fences, metal detectors and campus police officers. Because, some kids are bad apples and yes I will say it, some kids are no good and instead of throwing the bad apples out for the welfare, safety and education of the good students, they will keep the bad apples in to cause trouble, because they just want the money for every head of cattle.

In my personal experience from skipping school a bit myself and getting in trouble for it, the vice principle of the school even let me know they were concerned about the money they would receive from the government then my education. The vice principle even told me to come to school and I would have to do no work, they just needed me there a certain number of days.

The entire education system is a mess and the local and state governments really need to take their schools back from the Federal government and fix and run them themselves.

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aztek
1 hour ago, Myles said:

I'm not sure why the rent-a-cop didn't just call the main office and ask if the student had permission.  

 

because such an important figure can not be bothered with simple crap like that. 

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Desertrat56
27 minutes ago, OverSword said:

He didn't threaten him with a gun.  His gun was in the holster.  He told him what would happen should he hit him with his truck.  17 year old children can not do whatever they please.  You don't know that they wouldn't have verified he had permission to leave because he wasn't giving them a chance to do so.  My guess is the woman with the little golf cart is familiar with this kid and knowing 17 year old's I bet he was probably leaving to get high.  It doesn't matter what age you think (apparently 15 years old) that a kid can do whatever he wants despite what the people in charge of him are telling him to do, under 18 you have little say so in this situation.  The people ordering him not to leave are legally responsible should he drive away and get in a car accident or for anything else he does.  His parents sent him to school with the expectation that he would receive supervision and that's what happened.

The article said that he had permission to leave because of an orthodontic appointment.  And I said AFTER 15, that is when kids get their driver's license so they don't need parents to take them everywhere.   Your anger over this seems excessive.  A 17 year old is considered an adult in some states.  I guess you want them to be babies until they are 21, or something else, what is it?

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Myles
1 hour ago, OverSword said:

He didn't threaten him with a gun.  His gun was in the holster.  He told him what would happen should he hit him with his truck.  17 year old children can not do whatever they please.  You don't know that they wouldn't have verified he had permission to leave because he wasn't giving them a chance to do so.  My guess is the woman with the little golf cart is familiar with this kid and knowing 17 year old's I bet he was probably leaving to get high.  It doesn't matter what age you think (apparently 15 years old) that a kid can do whatever he wants despite what the people in charge of him are telling him to do, under 18 you have little say so in this situation.  The people ordering him not to leave are legally responsible should he drive away and get in a car accident or for anything else he does.  His parents sent him to school with the expectation that he would receive supervision and that's what happened.

I don't think that is true.

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Desertrat56

I'm sure he did learn one thing, on a day he has an appointment and his friend needs a ride to school on the way, he will probably drop the friend off a block from school so he can get to his appointment.

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OverSword
48 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

The article said that he had permission to leave because of an orthodontic appointment.  And I said AFTER 15, that is when kids get their driver's license so they don't need parents to take them everywhere.   Your anger over this seems excessive.  A 17 year old is considered an adult in some states.  I guess you want them to be babies until they are 21, or something else, what is it?

The article says his mother said she gave them notice in advance, which I'm going to guess was not true since....

Quote

William eventually parked the car and went inside, but he was suspended from Dec. 17 until Jan. 9, then was expelled from the school and sent to the Harry Schwettman Education Center, which, according to the school’s website, is a “voluntary educational program the district provides for students who have violated School Board policy, been recommended for expulsion or have a behavior pattern which has not been improved by a continuum of positive behavior and academic intervention strategies.”

My anger seems excessive?  I'm not angry, I'm using logic and common sense.  Logic and common sense says this child was ignoring instructions from the people in charge of him.  Logic and common sense says that when he turned the front tires of his truck towards the officer and moved forward, that the cop told him to stop or there would be consequences.  Logic and common sense tell me that there is obviously a history with this kid.  Logic and common sense tell me that the end result of this kid being sent to a school for kids with behavioral issues that I'm right in my assessment and you are not.  And you are especially wrong that minor children can come and go as they please from school starting at the age of 15 just because they can drive.  BTW that's 16 most places.  

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Desertrat56
2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

The article says his mother said she gave them notice in advance, which I'm going to guess was not true since....

My anger seems excessive?  I'm not angry, I'm using logic and common sense.  Logic and common sense says this child was ignoring instructions from the people in charge of him.  Logic and common sense says that when he turned the front tires of his truck towards the officer and moved forward, that the cop told him to stop or there would be consequences.  Logic and common sense tell me that there is obviously a history with this kid.  Logic and common sense tell me that the end result of this kid being sent to a school for kids with behavioral issues that I'm right in my assessment and you are not.  And you are especially wrong that minor children can come and go as they please from school starting at the age of 15 just because they can drive.  BTW that's 16 most places.  

YES, 16 comes AFTER 15 doesn't it?

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OverSword
18 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

YES, 16 comes AFTER 15 doesn't it?

What does that have to do with anything?

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Desertrat56
8 minutes ago, OverSword said:

What does that have to do with anything?

Nothing, but you brought it up as if I said 15 year olds can do as they want, which is not what I said.

Besides if what you say about the boy being in a alternative school for behavioral issues then why was there such a big deal over him leaving the regular school?  By the time a student is 17 and getting expelled and suspended and continuing to cause problems they are usually encouraged to just move on and get a job, or what ever to get them out of the system.

And don't claim logic and common sense when you don't have it.  (I read your posts).

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Kittens Are Jerks

I've never before seen anything quite like that. I didn't even know truancy officers were still a thing. Here we have attendance counsellors that work to help kids stay in school. Worse case scenario a teen might have to appear in court if they are constantly absence without explanation, but they try to avoid that extreme whenever possible.

The idea of an officer threatening a student, or even dragging them back to class by the ear, is abhorrent. 

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OverSword
12 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Besides if what you say about the boy being in a alternative school for behavioral issues then why was there such a big deal over him leaving the regular school?  By the time a student is 17 and getting expelled and suspended and continuing to cause problems they are usually encouraged to just move on and get a job, or what ever to get them out of the system.

And don't claim logic and common sense when you don't have it.  (I read your posts).

Maybe try reading the article.  He got transferred after this incident.  I'm using logic and common sense you are using emotions just like the people who wrote the outrageous and dishonest headline wanted you to do Cheviot-ram.jpg

The only mistake I've made here was misreading what you said about 15 year olds. 

Edited by OverSword

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OverSword
12 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

I've never before seen anything quite like that. I didn't even know truancy officers were still a thing. Here we have attendance counsellors that work to help kids stay in school. Worse case scenario a teen might have to appear in court if they are constantly absence without explanation, but they try to avoid that extreme whenever possible.

The idea of an officer threatening a student, or even dragging them back to class by the ear, is abhorrent. 

The idea of a dumb kid pointing his tires at a cop (not a truancy officer, a sheriffs deputy) and moving his truck forward is what's abhorrent.  The idea that the cop then explains what happens if he continues is just reasonable.  If you read the article this is obviously one in a long line of incidents involving this kid. Nobody got shot nor did it ever get physical so let's try to keep it in perspective.

Edited by OverSword

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OverSword
1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

I'm sure he did learn one thing, on a day he has an appointment and his friend needs a ride to school on the way, he will probably drop the friend off a block from school so he can get to his appointment.

I'm sure there was no appointment or he would not have been expelled, and if he learns anything it will be at the alternative high school.  Speaking as one of those out of the loop rebel teenagers that got sent to the alternative high school it will do him much good.

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Kittens Are Jerks
25 minutes ago, OverSword said:

The idea of a dumb kid pointing his tires at a cop (not a truancy officer, a sheriffs deputy) and moving his truck forward is what's abhorrent.  The idea that the cop then explains what happens if he continues is just reasonable.  If you read the article this is obviously one in a long line of incidents involving this kid. Nobody got shot nor did it ever get physical so let's try to keep it in perspective.

It's not reasonable, it's overkill, as are the false accusations levied against the student. He should have told the officers where he was going, but, frankly, given their attitude,  I doubt it would have diffused the situation. It's also difficult to know what transpired before that as we have just a partial video.  As for the long line of incidents involving the student, I read both articles and there was no mention of such incidents.

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Desertrat56
2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I'm sure there was no appointment or he would not have been expelled, and if he learns anything it will be at the alternative high school.  Speaking as one of those out of the loop rebel teenagers that got sent to the alternative high school it will do him much good.

Sometimes that is what is needed, and sometimes even that doesn't help.  My friend's daughter went to an alternative high school because she kept getting in to trouble but it didn't help her, she got in to more trouble.  It depends on the person and the reason they are in trouble to begin with, I think.

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