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What will the next Trump crime be?

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OverSword
15 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

What is the foundation of your security?  Is it your skills that make you a valuable asset to your company; you produce more revenue than your cost of employment?  Skills would be valuable in any company.  Or  is it working for a large corporation that acquires other corporations and then goes through the inevitable cost cutting, trimming , and RIF cycle.  Then you have to hope that they do not acquire another star player who works for less and produces more than you do.

At smaller companies the loss of one large client can result in the lay off of account techs and account managers, that is not a danger here.

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Tatetopa
1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

You seemed to have missed the key part of the Beach Ball analogy.  After collapse, in order to assist in making fundamental change, Obama figuratively, held the beach ball underwater.  people left the workforce in droves.  The economy was just too powerful for Obama to keep hobbled much longer.  The economy did begin to pick up, people were just beginning to get back into the workforce.  But this improvement was not because of Obama’s policies, it was in spite them.  If Obama had kept going, the unemployment rate would spike but then subside again as people left the workforce again.  The jobs were just not coming back under Obama because of business killing regulation.  It’s easy to change the society if the economy is mediocre.  Hilary would have continued the process.  But the fates were kind and we got Trump.  He instituted a 1 for 2 reduction in regulation and set up a tax cut by restructuring how we pay taxes.  Those two things exploded the economy. 

I confess I missed the key part.  The economy was too powerful for Obama to hold down, the beach ball rose out of the water and 8.1 million jobs were added in his last three years in office.  Not because of anything he did but in spite of it.

Now wise President Trump comes along, removes pesky regulations like air and water pollution controls, workers safety, and access to exploit public lands and the economy explodes and adds 6.6 million jobs in three years.  More of a deceleration than an explosion. Manufacturing growth has flatlined for the last 3 quarters.

Then he cuts taxes favoring the highest brackets. No doubt you noticed great reduction in your taxes, what, 10% or 20%.?  Call me ungrateful, but I didn't see it.  My 401k  is doing great and has been for the last 6 or 7 years, my salary goes up a couple % a year, just about enough to balance inflation and not enough to counteract increasing costs of medical care or college for my kid.  My house is worth 3 times what I paid for it twenty years ago.  If I wanted an upgrade, it would cost about double again what this house is worth now.

Not bad for me, hard on new families just starting out.

As dense as I am, I see only a steady upward trend from Obama's last term through Trump's first term.   I just don't see this explosion you refer to. 

 

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Montmorency the Dog

So have they decided on the next Trump Crime, or the new Democrat Candidate? Someone's really going to have to pull their finger out soon to get it all organised  in time for the Election Season

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Montmorency the Dog
3 hours ago, Doug1029 said:

The intellectually lazy say both parties are basically the same.

Since 1965:

Democrats (25 years in power):

3 indictments

1 conviction

1 prison sentence.

Republicans (28 years in power):

120 indictments

89 convictions

34 prison sentences

Donald Trump isn't done yet.

--Juan Hernandez Rodriguez

yes, and doesn't that say it all about what happened to the Democratic party since the 1990s. Really, long-term supporters of the party should weep at what it's become. 

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Tatetopa
37 minutes ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

So have they decided on the next Trump Crime, or the new Democrat Candidate? Someone's really going to have to pull their finger out soon to get it all organised  in time for the Election Season

Plenty of time.  Don't want the news to get stale and boring before election time.  For the short attention span public, major crimes and new candidates will be held until October.

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Doug1029
55 minutes ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

yes, and doesn't that say it all about what happened to the Democratic party since the 1990s. Really, long-term supporters of the party should weep at what it's become. 

The worst thing that might happen to the Democrats is that they could be taken over hard liners like the Republicans were.  A no-compromise policy on the part of the Dems, acting against the no-compromise attitude on the part of the Republicans could be distrous for the country caught in the middle.

I do weep as the Dems have drifted to the right under pressure from Rubs.  Where is the party of FDR and JFK?  Where is concern for governing the country, not just winning elections?

Doug

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WanderingFool0
5 hours ago, aztek said:

sorry, but no, they really do not.

Actually they do. Civilization itself is just a giant game of pretend and everyone has known it since the dawn of civilization. It is why there is that old story about the emperor's new clothes. The people pretend any of the leaders and authorities have power and the only thing that separates a king from a lunatic in an asylum claiming they are king, is people listen to the first and pretend he is.

All it takes for civilization to unravel is a famine and starvation in the civilization. It's kind of hard to maintain order when none of the people are listening and even the guards, because they are to busy trying to find food to survive. It's happened before, we are one ice age from it happening again. Of course at anytime people can just stop pretending even without starvation, but it tends to take something that drastic for the masses to all do it at the same time.

Edited by WanderingFool0
typos

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aztek
2 hours ago, WanderingFool0 said:

Actually they do. Civilization itself is just a giant game of pretend and everyone has known it since the dawn of civilization. It is why there is that old story about the emperor's new clothes. The people pretend any of the leaders and authorities have power and the only thing that separates a king from a lunatic in an asylum claiming they are king, is people listen to the first and pretend he is.

All it takes for civilization to unravel is a famine and starvation in the civilization. It's kind of hard to maintain order when none of the people are listening and even the guards, because they are to busy trying to find food to survive. It's happened before, we are one ice age from it happening again. Of course at anytime people can just stop pretending even without starvation, but it tends to take something that drastic for the masses to all do it at the same time.

wow, very reasonable option, lol.  would sure fix things, lol

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Varelse
21 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Blinders?  Achievements?  Please…  Obama’s best achievement was closing the door after him at the White House for the last time.  If you think of the economy as a beach ball in a pool, one can expend a lot of energy to hold it underwater but eventually, it will fight to get to the surface.  This is what Obama tried to do in order to control the economy.  The economy did eventually get better, not because of Obama but in spite him.  Don’t get me going about 2008 but like Emanuel stated, why waste a good crisis.  For Obama, the collapse was tailor made to order.  Obama had no wave.  Trump took what was there and created the wave.  The economy still needs a lot of TLC.  Trump just started the first step, to grow it.  Raise revenue and GDP.  Once you grow it sufficiently, then you can deal with the debt.  He inherited a doubled debt and just pumping the breaks isn’t going to reverse course.  You need the economy to work for you and be so prosperous that the debt is not an obstacle.  So far, Trump has had good instincts about what needs to happen.  I’m sure it’s not all the way he would have wanted it, but he makes due with what he has.  If Trump can continue on path for the next 5 years, followed by another Conservative President for another 4 or 8 years that stays true to Trump’s course, nothing will be able to hold the economy of this nation back.

Dude, do you get paid by the word? Your replies sound like decent rebuttals on the surface but when you dig down everthing falls apart. Obama was far from the disaster you claim. With the exception of the wars and the debt he left the WH a hell of a lot better than Bush/Cheney.  And Trump is catching up on dept-especially for future generations. Here's 4000 more words. 

 Image result for presidential economic graphImage result for trump economic graph7.27.18.png?itok=wemVSfbgImage result for adjusted gdp growth by president

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lightly
22 hours ago, aztek said:

sorry, but no, they really do not.

I'm curious as to who You believe does hold the power ?  (if not the people) ?    

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aztek
15 minutes ago, lightly said:

I'm curious as to who You believe does hold the power ?  (if not the people) ?    

rich people in power and who holds high positions,  isn't it obvious???

i'm curious why anyone would actually think people have power, looking at what happens in the country in last 20 years at least.  pretty much every law and policies passed only benefit the rich, those who are really in power, 

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WanderingFool0
1 hour ago, aztek said:

rich people in power and who holds high positions,  isn't it obvious???

i'm curious why anyone would actually think people have power, looking at what happens in the country in last 20 years at least.  pretty much every law and policies passed only benefit the rich, those who are really in power, 

You are correct the banks and corporations are running it all and have been for a long time, but that does not change the fact that the people are the source of power and always have been. Just because the people refuse to collectively utilize their power doesn't mean they no longer have it.

Of course this won't happen but just imagine if the population of the US at the same time just said they were done and they weren't listening to them any more. If the masses did that you would see lot of politicians ranting and raving. They would call on the guards and if the guards; who are the people as well say, "we are no longer listening to you either". All their power would vanish into smoke while they were hauled off. 

Frankly you see the fragility of power every time a country has a revolution and those in power suddenly lose it and instead find the armies and the people hauling them to the gallows. Power in the end always comes from the people agreeing to play a collective game of pretend.

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.”

Edited by WanderingFool0
correction
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thedutchiedutch

Another 4 years of clownish presidency ? But seriously, he gets away with murder, so don't matter what crime he commits it will be all just be frowned upon but without any real punishment :( 

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acidhead

 

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RavenHawk
On 2/14/2020 at 12:07 PM, Tatetopa said:

I confess I missed the key part.  The economy was too powerful for Obama to hold down, the beach ball rose out of the water and 8.1 million jobs were added in his last three years in office.  Not because of anything he did but in spite of it.

Cute does not excuse ignorance.  I am very dubious of that number “8”.  I think it is closer to 2 or 3.  There are going to be fluctuations.  We were hemorrhaging jobs.  You had a President bent on Fundamental Change.  You can’t preform such change in a thriving economy.  It has to become bad enough that the people cry out for something better.  Then Obama steps in an offers a new way.  People will be eager to follow, but not putting much thought into the ramifications.  That President wanted to apply that old adage that a person maybe smart and level-headed, but people are stupid and panicky and will follow a Pied Piper.  Obama was trying all he could to keep the economy down by imposing job killing regulation.  First apologize for the evil that is America and then try to commit suicide.  That will bring out the mediocrity to fit in a Socialist world.  Instead of being the light of hope to the world, we’ll just muck along in the self-interests of the ruling elite.  So yes, despite Obama, the economy did produce a few million jobs, of which most were low wage jobs.

 

Now wise President Trump comes along, removes pesky regulations like air and water pollution controls, workers safety, and access to exploit public lands and the economy explodes and adds 6.6 million jobs in three years.  More of a deceleration than an explosion. Manufacturing growth has flatlined for the last 3 quarters.

I don’t know if he was wise or just pi-$$ed off like the rest of us.  He just happened to be in a position to do something about it.  But it wasn’t too hard to recognize the purpose of this over regulation.  How many regulations does it take to simply protect the environment from excess pollution?  About a fraction of what we now have.  Worker safety is a function of the free market.  The Left have turned unions into a pawn and have become corrupt.  I’m fine for using the term ‘declaration’.  We haven’t seen the real explosion yet.  But we don’t really want an explosion.  We want a steady growth over the next generation to return the prosperity of this nation.  Most of these new jobs have been higher-wage jobs so compared to what we experienced under Obama, this is an *explosion*.  It’s all about the intent.  The difference is as stark as night from day.

 

Then he cuts taxes favoring the highest brackets.

Actually, it’s been favoring the lower brackets.  What you don’t seem to understand is that no matter what happens, the wealthy will always get richer.  We shouldn’t be trying to thwart that anyway.  But what matters is what do the rich do with those tax cuts?  Well, it seems like much of that goes into new jobs and wages.

 

No doubt you noticed great reduction in your taxes, what, 10% or 20%.?  Call me ungrateful, but I didn't see it. 

Yes, we did notice it.  It was enough to give us a breather.  So much so as to be able to restructure our second mortgage and combine that with a home equity loan to redo the bathrooms and pay off some credit cards.  Of which, we will do most of the work.

 

My 401k  is doing great and has been for the last 6 or 7 years, my salary goes up a couple % a year, just about enough to balance inflation and not enough to counteract increasing costs of medical care or college for my kid. 

All our investments were stagnant under Obama.  They were not going anywhere.  Now under Trump, I think the average is like 49% increase?  I was lucky if my salary rose by 1% under Obama.  In the last three years, I’ve had a 2%, 3%, and a 5% raise.  Under the Bush’s’, I was averaging about 5%.  I don’t expect to see those kinds of numbers regularly for a while but hopefully they will get close in the next 5 to 13 years.  All those years were robbed potential because of the Progs (Carter, Clinton, & Obama).  I’ll never get that money back.

 

My house is worth 3 times what I paid for it twenty years ago.  If I wanted an upgrade, it would cost about double again what this house is worth now.

We’ve only had this home for about 13 years now.  We took a big hit in value around 2010, but it was just in the last few years that we are now just a bit beyond where we started.  We are ecstatic and encouraged about at least the next 5 years.

 

Not bad for me, hard on new families just starting out.

It’s always hard on new families and under Obama, the family was dying.  The future now looks bright for new families.  Now all Trump needs to do is deal with student debt (not just past but also new) and the future will indeed be bright

 

As dense as I am, I see only a steady upward trend from Obama's last term through Trump's first term.   I just don't see this explosion you refer to. 

Yes, you are dense.  What you saw under Obama was phony.  It was a false trend with no substance.  Most just didn’t experience it the way you did.  Most were stuck in reality.  Going from false to real is a big explosion.

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RavenHawk
On 2/14/2020 at 8:38 PM, Varelse said:

Dude, do you get paid by the word? Your replies sound like decent rebuttals on the surface but when you dig down everthing falls apart. Obama was far from the disaster you claim. With the exception of the wars and the debt he left the WH a hell of a lot better than Bush/Cheney.  And Trump is catching up on dept-especially for future generations. Here's 4000 more words.

You need to learn how to dig down.  The multicolored bobbles draw your attention too easily but you have no understanding why they are.  Do you have any idea why the unemployment rate under Obama was falling?  Do you really think that more people were getting jobs?  What was happening was that jobs were disappearing and those that would be working those jobs were leaving the workforce.  Remember Obama calling it the “New Normal”?  People just gave up looking for jobs.  It’s easy to tout a low unemployment rate when able-bodied workers just walk away.  Then you throw in damaging regulations, increase minimum wage, and force employers to provide health care, forces employers to let full-time workers go and hire part-time workers.  That’s where most of Obama’s numbers came from.  Having to work 2 or 3 part-time jobs doesn’t really help individuals to acquire wealth.  I just knew that when Trump ended those job-killing regulations, that people would return to the workforce and thought that the unemployment rate would jump up.  But happily, the jobs are returning too.  That keeps the rate at a stasis.  People are working just one job and those on food stamps has been dropping.  The workforce is at a record 160 million.  For those of you that follow stats, 60% of people believe they are better off now than they were 3 years ago.  90% of people are satisfied with their personal life.  Those are indicators of prosperity, which we haven’t seen in a long time.  And people will vote based on this.

 

Your second chart is very telling.  The first thing that jumps out is that under Obama, the GDP fluctuated all over the place.  That does not bode well for wealth creation, no stability.  Under Trump, the GDP shows consistent steady growth, the perfect environment for wealth creation.  Obama’s GDP will average out to below 2.0 while Trump’s will average out above 2.0.  If he gets a second term, that should creep up a bit more.  Just image where we would be if Trump didn’t have to deal with all the hatred?  That is the poison that is hurting this nation and Trump is drawing it out from the body of this nation.

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lightly
23 hours ago, aztek said:

rich people in power and who holds high positions,  isn't it opbvious???

i'm curious why anyone would actually think people have power, looking at what happens in the country in last 20 years at least.  pretty much every law and policies passed only benefit the rich, those who are really in power, 

Thanks aztek, well, ya, sort of obvious... Can you name each and every one of these obvious people?  Neither can I.

it's refreshing to hear you blame someone other than "The Left".   Would you agree that these obvious people ,essentially, control most important policies advanced by BOTH the Republicans and the Dems. ??         Me too.

it's refreshing to see the facts starting to coalesce in the minds of the general populace.

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Setton
14 hours ago, acidhead said:

 

No, that's a little too tasteful for him. 

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Setton
3 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Instead of being the light of hope to the world

You're really that deluded? :lol:

You are the clown of the world. The punchline to practically every joke. The Emperor with no clothes. 

Oh it's so sad you have to laugh. 

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weaselrunner
On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 9:11 PM, Agent0range said:

Can you name another President that charged $650 per room for his protection?  I've been on TDY for the government.  The most I've seen paid for a hotel room, the highest rate in the nation is like $130 a night in DC.  It takes a whole lotta hoops to jump through to get $650 approved.  No other President had to deal with this, because there was never this issue.

If I remember correctly, the clintons were charging the secret service in the range of 10,000 to 11,000 per month to stay in servents quarters in the back of the ny  property. Funny thing but it was the amount of their mortgage payment per month.

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and then
On 2/12/2020 at 10:24 PM, Raptor Witness said:

Look, this is what pardons are for. Crying to the DOJ about injustice in the case of Roger Stone, on Twitter is nonsense. Pardon your friend and take the victory lap. This whole DOJ fiasco is far more damaging politically, as we are seeing, 

Trump is too stupid to be President. Nobody cares about Stone. Trump’s crybaby whiner crap, isn’t amusing anymore. 

 

You seem to be accusing Trump of demanding that the sentence be reduced?  Barr said the sentence seemed harsh in light of what was the usual for such crimes.  That's all.  Nothing more.  The judge in that case has total discretion to do as she pleases and can completely ignore the admonition.  IOW, he did nothing wrong.  I get that you guys can't allow him any latitude at all where such decisions are concerned but damn.  If you really believe that Stone deserved to have storm troopers kick in his doors at dawn while an assault team was watching the rear exit - all conveniently caught live for CNN - then I'd suggest you look in a mirror when you accuse Trump of being a dictator wannabe.  The government has become outrageous where this anti-Trump activity is concerned.  I'd like to see Weissman and his cronies treated the same way.  I think they are vile, scum.

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and then
On 2/13/2020 at 5:42 PM, Habitat said:

Time will tell how Trump's decisions play out, there are no magic levers that people seem to think exist.

Obama used some "magic levers" on our economy and they worked exceedingly well.  He made two moves that crippled the economy - intentionally, IMO - and all Trump had to do to reignite prosperity was to remove them.  Obama turned the EPA over to run amok with regulations that so burdened small business that many just closed the doors.  He also made it clear that his Obamacare WOULD be the law of the land and business owners fled the scene in large numbers to avoid the crippling costs associated with it.  That is what businesses DO.  Always have, always will.  In a free country, these people with wealth will invest when it benefits THEM.  They will take their chips and walk away from the table when they see they're being set up to lose.  If a Dem wins in November you will see the progress that's been made in the last 3 years stop, then reverse.  It happens all the time.  Their whole outlook and ideology revolves around taking from one group to hand it to others in return for votes.  The wealthy that they demonize will simply give them the middle finger and take their money offshore until the situation changes.

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and then
On 2/14/2020 at 3:15 PM, Doug1029 said:

The worst thing that might happen to the Democrats is that they could be taken over hard liners

Might?  Your party has leaned so far to the extremes that James freakin' Carville, the ragin cajun himself, is saying they've lost their minds.  The nominee may well be a self-styled Socialist.  OTOH, if he keeps winning and the DNC simply push him aside at the Convention, it may well destroy the party and ensure a Trump win.  It's quite the dilemma the party elders have.  Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch, IMO.

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Doug1029

If I were the judge, I'd find out exactly what Trump and Barr really said, then if they were trying to intercede in the case, Stone would get a very harsh sentence.

On the other hand, if they weren't, I'd just chalk it up to Trump's big mouth and let it go at that.

Doug

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