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Eldorado

Church of England is 'institutionally racist'

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Eldorado

"The Church of England is "still deeply institutionally racist", the Archbishop of Canterbury has said.

"The Most Reverend Justin Welby said at a meeting of the Church's ruling body, the General Synod, that he was "ashamed" of its history of racism.

"Mr Welby's words came as Synod members backed a motion to apologise for racism in the Church of England since the arrival of the Windrush generation.

"The body also voted to "stamp out conscious or unconscious" racism."

Full report at the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51469566

And at Sky UK: https://news.sky.com/story/church-of-england-still-deeply-institutionally-racist-archbishop-says-11931978

Edited by Eldorado
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RoofGardener

Pathetic self-flagellating virtue signalling. And they wonder why people are abandoning the Church ? 

 

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Piney
57 minutes ago, Eldorado said:

"The body also voted to "stamp out conscious or unconscious" racism."

Stop thinking about it and talking about it. :yes:

 

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Crazy Horse
23 hours ago, Eldorado said:

"The Church of England is "still deeply institutionally racist", the Archbishop of Canterbury has said.

"The Most Reverend Justin Welby said at a meeting of the Church's ruling body, the General Synod, that he was "ashamed" of its history of racism.

"Mr Welby's words came as Synod members backed a motion to apologise for racism in the Church of England since the arrival of the Windrush generation.

"The body also voted to "stamp out conscious or unconscious" racism."

Full report at the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51469566

And at Sky UK: https://news.sky.com/story/church-of-england-still-deeply-institutionally-racist-archbishop-says-11931978

I wonder how they intend to do that?

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Mr Walker
On 2/13/2020 at 9:34 PM, Crazy Horse said:

I wonder how they intend to do that?

The classic method  would be consciousness raising until peole become conscious of inner racism   

This had to be done many decades ago with both child abuse and rape in marriage where the majority of peole saw saw nothing wrong

Currently bullying among young people , and misuse of power by men(predominantly)  to get sexual favours ,are going through the same exercise 

Many still see them as acceptable social norms . 

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Crazy Horse
5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

The classic method  would be consciousness raising until peole become conscious of inner racism   

This had to be done many decades ago with both child abuse and rape in marriage where the majority of peole saw saw nothing wrong

Currently bullying among young people , and misuse of power by men(predominantly)  to get sexual favours ,are going through the same exercise 

Many still see them as acceptable social norms . 

That's fair enough.

Nothing wrong with a bit of the old consciousness raising, only it begs the question, how might they do that in regards to folks subconscious racism?

I thought it was a job for the "thought police", to tell us when, and why, we are being racist, and punish us accordingly. When our unconscious reactions to someone may have a myriad of reasons. It just sounded very 1984 to me! Perhaps the C of E have actually stated how they are going to do this? Perhaps I should take a look? :)

 

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Mr Walker
On 2/15/2020 at 6:27 PM, Crazy Horse said:

That's fair enough.

Nothing wrong with a bit of the old consciousness raising, only it begs the question, how might they do that in regards to folks subconscious racism?

I thought it was a job for the "thought police", to tell us when, and why, we are being racist, and punish us accordingly. When our unconscious reactions to someone may have a myriad of reasons. It just sounded very 1984 to me! Perhaps the C of E have actually stated how they are going to do this? Perhaps I should take a look? :)

 

Sometimes it just needs information and understanding,

I remember back in the 70s when child abuse was just becoming an issue in the education dept. We had a lot of conferences just showing us the reality of abuse and the signs to look for in different types, from  sexual, to physical, to neglect.   All teachers then had a legal responsibility to report any suspected abuse, even if they had no concrete evidence for it.

  Like all concepts or ideas,  racism is a social construct, thus some people need educating about how that social construct exists now, and has changed from the past; eg. when they were children and learning values  ( i just watched  "The Green Book." a brilliant movie based on a true story, which shows entrenched racism in the south of america in the 60s  which i sincerely hope no longer exists in a systemic form   ie some people may still be racist, but can no longer openly act on those racist beliefs  and  pass laws which entrench that racism which support  their behaviors) 

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Crazy Horse
On 2/17/2020 at 12:04 AM, Mr Walker said:

Sometimes it just needs information and understanding,

I remember back in the 70s when child abuse was just becoming an issue in the education dept. We had a lot of conferences just showing us the reality of abuse and the signs to look for in different types, from  sexual, to physical, to neglect.   All teachers then had a legal responsibility to report any suspected abuse, even if they had no concrete evidence for it.

  Like all concepts or ideas,  racism is a social construct, thus some people need educating about how that social construct exists now, and has changed from the past; eg. when they were children and learning values  ( i just watched  "The Green Book." a brilliant movie based on a true story, which shows entrenched racism in the south of america in the 60s  which i sincerely hope no longer exists in a systemic form   ie some people may still be racist, but can no longer openly act on those racist beliefs  and  pass laws which entrench that racism which support  their behaviors) 

Maybe you are right.

Or perhaps we all just need to get to know each other a little better?

Is racism a social construct, or just a mental abbreviation? Or both?

We can all try to change society, only, changing oneself must be easier.

Personally, I see racism, in such an interconnected world, utterly stupid and ignorant. I don't like everyone, but I don't judge someone by their sex, colour, class, or religious beliefs, that to me is completely stupid and damaging to myself, and to the other, and to society in general. The quality of an individuals actions are more important then their skin colour.

At the end of the day, I don't believe we can legislate our way out of a certain mindset.

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Jujo-jo
On 2/12/2020 at 6:22 AM, Eldorado said:

"The Church of England is "still deeply institutionally racist",

This is no big surprise. It's not just this church in England, it's most churches every where and most of the time it doesn't even have anything to do with your ethnic background, some if not most are racist about how much money you have or don't, frown on you for what you give or don't give, they classifying people even about your clothing weather it is acceptable in their eyes or not, right down to being racist over the transportation of how you get there and how often you attend.

It is very sad that people have allowed for it to be this way but it is a society driven world and is out of the church's hands.

Ignorant people are God's children too and unfortunately there is no cure for ignorance.

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Mr Walker
27 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Maybe you are right.

Or perhaps we all just need to get to know each other a little better?

Is racism a social construct, or just a mental abbreviation? Or both?

We can all try to change society, only, changing oneself must be easier.

Personally, I see racism, in such an interconnected world, utterly stupid and ignorant. I don't like everyone, but I don't judge someone by their sex, colour, class, or religious beliefs, that to me is completely stupid and damaging to myself, and to the other, and to society in general. The quality of an individuals actions are more important then their skin colour.

At the end of the day, I don't believe we can legislate our way out of a certain mindset.

I agree with all this 

However legislation is used for those whose minds we cannot change  ie sometimes a society compels all members of that society to behave in a certain way even when they do not believe in that way 

Hopefully we change ourselves,(where necessary)  while young, and then have a lifetime to work on changing others :) 

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Crazy Horse
2 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I agree with all this 

However legislation is used for those whose minds we cannot change  ie sometimes a society compels all members of that society to behave in a certain way even when they do not believe in that way 

Hopefully we change ourselves,(where necessary)  while young, and then have a lifetime to work on changing others :) 

We can legislate until the cows come home, and it will only drive the bad behaviour underground. Creating a "bunker mentality" to the already hateful mind of the racist.

I doubt there was even one hardcore racist who had a change of heart, simply because their government forbade it.

And yet the best way to change, work-on, society, is by setting a good, honest, moral and ethical example...…. something alien to most Western governments :D

 

 

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Mr Walker
Just now, Crazy Horse said:

We can legislate until the cows come home, and it will only drive the bad behaviour underground. Creating a "bunker mentality" to the already hateful mind of the racist.

I doubt there was even one hardcore racist who had a change of heart, simply because their government forbade it.

And yet the best way to change, work-on, society, is by setting a good, honest, moral and ethical example...…. something alien to most Western governments :D

 

 

Both are needed.

Education to change minds, and laws to change the behaviours of those whose minds cannot be changed  

Place a high enough cost on any behaviour, and you will greatly reduce its incidence 

i actually think western governments reflect the nature and values  of most citizens (otherwise the y would not get elected, especially in a country like australia where voting is compulsory) 

The y can only get away with what a majority of citizens allow them to.

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Crazy Horse
11 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Both are needed.

Education to change minds, and laws to change the behaviours of those whose minds cannot be changed  

Place a high enough cost on any behaviour, and you will greatly reduce its incidence 

i actually think western governments reflect the nature and values  of most citizens (otherwise the y would not get elected, especially in a country like australia where voting is compulsory) 

The y can only get away with what a majority of citizens allow them to.

With all due respect, that sounds very naïve to me.

If a person, any person, cannot speak out and make their voice heard, then like I said, they will be driven underground, sometimes resulting in extremist behaviour. So actually, that makes the problem worse.

Also, it should be painfully obvious by now, due to the filthy war-mongering emanating from certain governments, that they are anything other than moral and ethical people.

And the highlighted sentence shows a real disassociation from the truth. You say, they would not get elected, even though voting is compulsory... Think on that mate.

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and then

Hells Bells.Who ISN'T institutionally Ray Sus?  These fools don't seem to realize that they are destroying any impact of such labels by using them so regularly and in such silly situations.  If everybody that's white are racists then why would whites care any longer?  When do such blanket accusations stop having any meaning?  

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RabidMongoose
On 2/12/2020 at 12:07 PM, RoofGardener said:

Pathetic self-flagellating virtue signalling. And they wonder why people are abandoning the Church ? 

Its not the Church, its now the liberal Church.

Have we had our first transgender bishop yet? No? My God they are fascists and must be forced to change.

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Piney
6 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

We can legislate until the cows come home, and it will only drive the bad behaviour underground. Creating a "bunker mentality" to the already hateful mind of the racist.

 

Racism is a fully "learned" behavior. Laws just make matters worse.......so we just stop talking about it.  

 

 

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Crazy Horse
43 minutes ago, Piney said:

Racism is a fully "learned" behavior. Laws just make matters worse.......so we just stop talking about it.  

 

 

I agree, and have mentioned it on these boards before, that if everyone just stopped talking about it, then eventually, it would no longer be a thing.

However, if something is learnt, then  I guess it can be unlearnt too?

Its a bit of a pickle.

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Crazy Horse
7 hours ago, Jujo-jo said:

This is no big surprise. It's not just this church in England, it's most churches every where and most of the time it doesn't even have anything to do with your ethnic background, some if not most are racist about how much money you have or don't, frown on you for what you give or don't give, they classifying people even about your clothing weather it is acceptable in their eyes or not, right down to being racist over the transportation of how you get there and how often you attend.

It is very sad that people have allowed for it to be this way but it is a society driven world and is out of the church's hands.

Ignorant people are God's children too and unfortunately there is no cure for ignorance.

Its a good point.

Throughout history, this attitude of, you are either with us, or against us, and by the way, those against us are going straight to hell, is pretty diabolical in my mind.

Only, there is a cure for ignorance. Love, wisdom, understanding etc will cure almost anything lol..

 

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