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61% of Americans want full UFO disclosure

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, WanderingFool0 said:

Oh I will remember and you can remember too. I unlike most debunkers, know when I am speculating and giving my opinion. I also admit when I don't know something, which is another problem many debunkers seem to have. At the same time if I have first hand anecdotal evidence that shapes my opinion, I will say it and if I have no evidence to prove it to others I will admit and say that as well.

I don't care. 

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Hazzard
1 hour ago, WanderingFool0 said:

Oh I will remember and you can remember too. I unlike most debunkers, know when I am speculating and giving my opinion. I also admit when I don't know something, which is another problem many debunkers seem to have. At the same time if I have first hand anecdotal evidence that shapes my opinion, I will say it and if I have no evidence to prove it to others I will admit and say that as well. As I have done in previous discussions in the past.

One must always be careful when dealing with matters where a personal belief has a tendency to supersede the evidence. I think that the scientific method is a crucial step to discovery! The way I try to operate is from a strictly empirical/scientific methodology. The first thing I do with any hypothesis is to attempt falsification, thats science, not a conspiracy.

I myself do believe in life existing in places other than Earth, but it is a far better reward to have this idea proved via the scientific method than it is to simply state it as fact on blind faith. My personal belief is just that a belief, a hunch, a gut feeling of sorts. Future scientific discovery will dictate fact from fiction as it always does.

I think with UFO evidence there is a total lack of the peer review process, where as evidence is left for the public to decide. Snidbits of footage and photos are thrown to us like a proverbial bone to the dog. So there is a total lack of scientific method and peer review, to sort out the fake from the actual. So it is because of this present situation that we all must remain our own skeptics.

The odds are stacked against those who believe or want to believe, for reasons such as lack of government support and lack of support from the scientific community. 

Be aware of one thing though, the US have an entire billion dollar agency whos very inception is based on the search for life (not even to mention the other dozens of space exploration countries) this agencies motivation behind alot of their work is in search of other life. So there must be at least an inkling of belief on their part.........so like I said , future scientific discovery will dictate fact from fiction and as skeptics we shouldnt want it anyother way! 

And in the end it does not matter how much people kick and cry, the matter of alien visitation will be decided by the evidence, not by the intensity of opinion. If more people understood this simple truth there would be less "believers". 

Perhaps some of you would like the skeptics to replace the scientific method with faith, like you have!? Just one minor problem with that, it doesnt matter if every man, woman and child in the world believe in aliens, if they are not real.

I have never denied the existence of UFOs, and I do realize that there are things that have been seen, that are somewhat unexplained...UFOs, in other words. But, Unexplained does not mean alien!! Never has. Of course, you may believe in aliens on Earth, ghosts, or even the tooth ferry all you want. 

Me, I deal in knowledge. There is a BIG difference between the two.

There is no reason to get upset about it. What needs to be understood is the burden of proof that science and its method requires.


 

Edited by Hazzard
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WanderingFool0
25 minutes ago, Hazzard said:

One must always be careful when dealing with matters where a personal belief has a tendency to supersede the evidence. I think that the scientific method is a crucial step to discovery! The way I try to operate is from a strictly empirical/scientific methodology. The first thing I do with any hypothesis is to attempt falsification, thats science, not a conspiracy.

I myself do believe in life existing in places other than Earth, but it is a far better reward to have this idea proved via the scientific method than it is to simply state it as fact on blind faith. My personal belief is just that a belief, a hunch, a gut feeling of sorts. Future scientific discovery will dictate fact from fiction as it always does.

I think with UFO evidence there is a total lack of the peer review process, where as evidence is left for the public to decide. Snidbits of footage and photos are thrown to us like a proverbial bone to the dog. So there is a total lack of scientific method and peer review, to sort out the fake from the actual. So it is because of this present situation that we all must remain our own skeptics.

The odds are stacked against those who believe or want to believe, for reasons such as lack of government support and lack of support from the scientific community. 

Be aware of one thing though, the US have an entire billion dollar agency whos very inception is based on the search for life (not even to mention the other dozens of space exploration countries) this agencies motivation behind alot of their work is in search of other life. So there must be at least an inkling of belief on their part.........so like I said , future scientific discovery will dictate fact from fiction and as skeptics we shouldnt want it anyother way! 

And in the end it does not matter how much people kick and cry, the matter of alien visitation will be decided by the evidence, not by the intensity of opinion. If more people understood this simple truth there would be less "believers". 

Perhaps some of you would like the skeptics to replace the scientific method with faith, like you have!? Just one minor problem with that, it doesnt matter if every man, woman and child in the world believe in aliens, if they are not real.

I have never denied the existence of UFOs, and I do realize that there are things that have been seen, that are somewhat unexplained...UFOs, in other words. But, Unexplained does not mean alien!! Never has. Of course, you may believe in aliens on Earth, ghosts, or even the tooth ferry all you want. 

Me, I deal in knowledge. There is a BIG difference between the two.

There is no reason to get upset about it. What needs to be understood is the burden of proof that science and its method requires.


 

I never said to replace the scientific method or the need for evidence in science, I simply said that lack of evidence is not proof of non existence and when those who claim to be scientifically minded, either assert that their negative bias is objective truth or that the lack of evidence means something does not exist, they are engaging in the same game they claim believers are up to; asserting their opinion as absolute fact with no supporting evidence.

Edited by WanderingFool0
correction

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Dejarma
13 minutes ago, WanderingFool0 said:

I simply said that lack of evidence is not proof of non existence

here we go- the good ol': 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' approach....


How long will it take for folk to start considering: 'absence of evidence can only mean evidence of absence' (via rational thinking) 10/ 50/ 100 years??


Will places like this 100 years from now STILL be wondering the meaning of crop-circles?== probably:sleepy:

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WanderingFool0
1 minute ago, Dejarma said:

here we go- the good ol': 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' approach....


How long will it take for folk to start considering: 'absence of evidence can only mean evidence of absence' (via rational thinking) 10/ 50/ 100 years??


Will places like this 100 years from now STILL be wondering the meaning of crop-circles?== probably:sleepy:

Because, it doesn't. that is childish and self centered view. There are millions of objects, events and occurrences happening right now in this world, that I do not have knowledge of or evidence for; I am completely unaware of them. I can say I don't know if they exist, for some of them I can look for evidence of their existence and maybe find some proving they exist, but if I look and find no evidence for their existence I can't rationally or logically conclude that they don't exist. Because, the universe isn't dependent on my awareness and subjectively for me they would not exist, but objectively they really would. 

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Dejarma
8 minutes ago, WanderingFool0 said:

that is childish and self centered view. There are millions of objects, events and occurrences happening right now in this world, that I do not have knowledge of or evidence for

call it childish and self centered if ya like... but i call it an opinion, matey

ok, give me an example of one of these occurrences you refer to 

Edited by Dejarma
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WanderingFool0
10 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

oh is it?

ok, give me an example of one of these occurrences you refer to 

Just take people for example. How many people are really in the world? How many do I know, or I have seen in television or photographs and therefore have evidence of their existence? However many that is, there is vast number of them i have no awareness or evidence of. Whether or not, I have awareness or evidence for anyone of those unknown individuals and the mundane and sundry occurrences and events of their lives, they are still there living those lives.

If the universe were dependent on my or anyone else's awareness and any evidence they personally have gathered, then everyone else would be out of luck, when that person dies and takes their awareness and the universe dependent on it with them.

And I didn't mean to belittle your opinion. I shouldn't have called it childish,

Edited by WanderingFool0
correction

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Dejarma
5 minutes ago, WanderingFool0 said:

Just take people for example. How many people are really in the world? How many do I know, or I have seen in television or photographs and therefore have evidence of their existence? However many that is, there is vast number of them i have no awareness or evidence of.

what? a bad example because people really exist! just because you don't know most of them & don't know what they are doing has nothing to do with what's being talked about here

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WanderingFool0
7 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

what? a bad example because people really exist! just because you don't know most of them & don't know what they are doing has nothing to do with what's being talked about here

It's a perfect example. Whether something as a whole can be proven to exist it, ie there are people, all those individuals still exist whether I can prove them individually or not.

I like how debunkers like to use the framework of logic and reason and many methods to dismiss paranormal events, but then when I use the same framework  and tactics to dismiss mundane things somehow it is against the rules.  At the end of the day the majority of the methods that debunkers use to dismiss the paranormal can be used to dismiss the mundane. Makes those methods an uneven and inaccurate method of measuring and obtaining truth, especially if it is not applied equally to all ideas.

Edited by WanderingFool0
correction

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Dejarma
4 minutes ago, WanderingFool0 said:

It's a perfect example. Whether something as a whole can be proven to exist it, ie there are people, all those individuals still exist whether I can prove them individually or not.

oh ok then

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WanderingFool0
Just now, Dejarma said:

oh ok then

I am just saying, I didn't set the bar. The bar was set as lack of evidence being proof of non existence, I then used that bar against individual people and using that measure and standard I would have to say the lack of evidence for those individuals, means they don't exist.

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XenoFish
5 minutes ago, WanderingFool0 said:

I am just saying, I didn't set the bar. The bar was set as lack of evidence being proof of non existence, I then used that bar against individual people and using that measure and standard I would have to say the lack of evidence for those individuals, means they don't exist.

:sleepy:

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Habitat
5 hours ago, WanderingFool0 said:

No more so, than all the debunkers, who were not present at all of the sightings and were therefore unable  to observe the phenomena and gather data to analyze, yet think they know exactly what  happened in everyone of these cases.

I have seen quite inexplicable things of the UFO kind, and know others that have, I don't think the gubmint has some insight that the masses of witnesses do not, and I think it entirely likely that if they did, someone would have broken the secrecy by now, there being a clear matter of public interest involved. Whatever is being seen may be far more bizarre than we can even imagine.

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preacherman76
8 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Not really. Because what you saw wasn't an alien ufo. It was a prototype air craft. So nothing really changes.

Well I’ve never claimed to have seen or know anything about aliens. 
 

I have been told several times that I didn’t see what I very clearly did see. Have been told what I saw just doesn’t exist. So, come that day, maybe people won’t be so quick to dismiss things like that. 
 

To me aliens have next to nothing to do with this. 

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, preacherman76 said:

Well I’ve never claimed to have seen or know anything about aliens. 
 

I have been told several times that I didn’t see what I very clearly did see. Have been told what I saw just doesn’t exist. So, come that day, maybe people won’t be so quick to dismiss things like that. 
 

To me aliens have next to nothing to do with this. 

With all the satellites in the skies, how can anyone know what's e.t. and what's man made. Plus we have drones now. So it would be extremely easy to fake a ufo. I don't doubt alien life exist someone out in the universe, but I really don't think it's stopping by to probe people.

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preacherman76
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

With all the satellites in the skies, how can anyone know what's e.t. and what's man made. Plus we have drones now. So it would be extremely easy to fake a ufo. I don't doubt alien life exist someone out in the universe, but I really don't think it's stopping by to probe people.

Me either, like I said aliens have little to nothing to do with this, as far as I’m concerned. 

Edited by preacherman76

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Dejarma
6 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Me either, like I said aliens have little to nothing to do with this, as far as I’m concerned. 

nothing to do with what?

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Timothy
On 2/14/2020 at 7:13 AM, preacherman76 said:

Even if things like flying saucers end up just being secrete military craft, I cant wait for the day that the public is told about them. Then all the folks who have looked down on people like myself who have seen them might consider doing a little critical thinking of their own.

That’s got nothing to do with this topic. 

No government in their right mind is going to release all of the info they have on UFO’s / UAP’s etc. 

Or their own secret projects, or other governments secret projects which they covertly know of.

I don’t deny that people see things. I just need evidence. 

Edited by Timothy
Typo.

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Habitat

Let's face it, the unambiguous discovery of space aliens, or craft thereof, would be a stupendous event, and there is zero chance a lid could be kept on it.

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RoofGardener

Nontheless, I'm with the 39% of Americans sitting in their basement with their fingers in their ears, humming loudly, as the news of historic alien encounters rolls in :D 

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preacherman76
5 hours ago, Timothy said:

That’s got nothing to do with this topic. 

No government in their right mind is going to release all of the info they have on UFO’s / UAP’s etc. 

Or their own secret projects, or other governments secret projects which they covertly know of.

I don’t deny that people see things. I just need evidence. 

How does it have nothing to do with this topic? It has everything to do with this topic. In fact out of the 61% only 23% believe UFO’s to be alien. 

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preacherman76
8 hours ago, Dejarma said:

nothing to do with what?

Follow the conversation, I’m not repeating myself for you. 

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Timothy
5 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

How does it have nothing to do with this topic? It has everything to do with this topic. In fact out of the 61% only 23% believe UFO’s to be alien. 

You can’t accuse someone who has not seen a flying saucer of not being critical.

Being critical about the evidence provided is all we can do. And no evidence has stood up to skeptical scrutiny. So if the evidence does exist, and comes out, it would be awesome. 

And being critical about eye-witness testimony without evidence is logical. Eye witness testimony is extremely unreliable. Human fallibility is proven. 

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preacherman76
5 minutes ago, Timothy said:

You can’t accuse someone who has not seen a flying saucer of not being critical.

Being critical about the evidence provided is all we can do. And no evidence has stood up to skeptical scrutiny. So if the evidence does exist, and comes out, it would be awesome. 

And being critical about eye-witness testimony without evidence is logical. Eye witness testimony is extremely unreliable. Human fallibility is proven. 

I didn’t. I just said on the day it is known that saucers exist, those who have been critical might take a moment to think about how, in many cases, they were less than polite about their disbelief. You know, like you were in your first post here. 

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Habitat
27 minutes ago, Timothy said:

Eye witness testimony is extremely unreliable. Human fallibility is proven. 

Matey, the saying "seeing is believing" did not achieve currency for nothing. 

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