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61% of Americans want full UFO disclosure

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Timothy
23 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

I didn’t. I just said on the day it is known that saucers exist, those who have been critical might take a moment to think about how, in many cases, they were less than polite about their disbelief. You know, like you were in your first post here. 

Like in my follow up post, I was commenting more on the fact that no government is going to disclose all of their classified information on UFO/UAP, top secret projects, state secrets, classified information etc. 

Maybe when there’s peace on earth...

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Timothy
1 minute ago, Habitat said:

Matey, the saying "seeing is believing" did not achieve currency for nothing. 

And you can say that about any paranormal phenomena also. 

What you see depends on your situational awareness, perception, and knowledge of possible explanations. 

People may have seen flying saucers but there’s no solid evidence for them is all I'm saying. 

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preacherman76
54 minutes ago, Timothy said:

Like in my follow up post, I was commenting more on the fact that no government is going to disclose all of their classified information on UFO/UAP, top secret projects, state secrets, classified information etc. 

Maybe when there’s peace on earth...

No they will never reveal all. They may show what they have up till this point, if one day that become obsolete. 
 

Really thinking about if, they own the thing I saw, people will be mad they have held this technology back for so long. The world would look like a very different place right now if it was shared. 

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Nnicolette
On 2/13/2020 at 8:06 PM, Habitat said:

Seems rather strange that people think the gubmint knows all about it, but the general population does not have a single decent thing to show. This is nonsense, the beans would have been spilled long ago, by someone. And what makes people think the gubmint can catch, that private citizens cannot ? It is BS, and just paranoia on steroids.

Of course they do! NSA already disclosed that. In fact, NSA has declassified a lot of things and has found in their investigations that the CIA is actively hiding the truth. If any one  wants to see, soft disclosure already happened. you just have to know where to look because its not going to get publicised https://www.nsa.gov/news-features/declassified-documents/ufo/

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Habitat
7 hours ago, Nnicolette said:

Of course they do! NSA already disclosed that. In fact, NSA has declassified a lot of things and has found in their investigations that the CIA is actively hiding the truth. If any one  wants to see, soft disclosure already happened. you just have to know where to look because its not going to get publicised https://www.nsa.gov/news-features/declassified-documents/ufo/

I'm not saying UFO's are not real, I am saying that govt agencies are not apprised of the kind of information people think they are withholding, it is incomprehensible that it could be the case that privately held information is so insubstantial, yet somehow all the meaty stuff is in the hands of gubmints, which is full of people of doubtful competency anyway. 

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WanderingFool0
17 minutes ago, Habitat said:

I'm not saying UFO's are not real, I am saying that govt agencies are not apprised of the kind of information people think they are withholding, it is incomprehensible that it could be the case that privately held information is so insubstantial, yet somehow all the meaty stuff is in the hands of gubmints, which is full of people of doubtful competency anyway. 

Well, I just disagree. The government has access to far more resources than the public and far more authority. If they need uranium to make an a bomb, they get it, If they need scientists and resources to enrich that uranium and build the bomb, they get it. That is how the government was able to do it when many others could not and many thought it couldn't even be done. The government has access to and can do things the public can't. I think that is just a fact.

And the idea that the government can't keep secrets is ludicrous. They are keeping tons of secrets. They still have some classified secrets from the JFK assassination even. today. Just because there has been whistle blowers in the past is no indication that they can't keep a secret.

I have family members that have retired from the military and still have stuff they are not allowed to talk about and don't, even today long after they are no longer in service. I would also say people with loose lips would get weeded out long before you get to a level of clearance to gain access to most of the highly classified research anyway.

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Habitat
4 minutes ago, WanderingFool0 said:

Well, I just disagree. The government has access to far more resources than the public and far more authority. If they need uranium to make an a bomb, they get it, If they need scientists and resources to enrich that uranium and build the bomb, they get it. That is how the government was able to do it when many others could not and many thought it couldn't even be done. The government has access to and can do things the public can't. I think that is just a fact.

And the idea that the government can't keep secrets is ludicrous. They are keeping tons of secrets. They still have some classified secrets from the JFK assassination even. today. Just because there has been whistle blowers in the past is no indication that they can't keep a secret.

I have family members that have retired from the military and still have stuff they are not allowed to talk about and don't, even today long after they are no longer in service. I would also say people with loose lips would get weeded out long before you get to a level of clearance to gain access to most of the highly classified research anyway.

I think you are kidding yourself, the idea that artefacts would just fall exclusively and preferentially into the hands of people with govt jobs, is beyond ridiculous. And I would not give a ghost of a chance to it remaining secret, it being a matter of great import for all the world to know about, not some particular govt, where secrecy is based on fear of other countries, not agencies external to the Earth. Who are they keeping the secret from ? A lid could not be kept on it. It is way too big. And the potential for nuclear weapons was common knowledge well before it happened, it was no secret.

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WanderingFool0
1 minute ago, Habitat said:

I think you are kidding yourself, the idea that artefacts would just fall exclusively and preferentially into the hands of people with govt jobs, is beyond ridiculous. And I would not give a ghost of a chance to it remaining secret, it being a matter of great import for all the world to know about, not some particular govt, where secrecy is based on fear of other countries, not agencies external to the Earth. Who are they keeping the secret from ? A lid could not be kept on it. It is way too big. And the potential for nuclear weapons was common knowledge well before it happened, it was no secret.

well I think you are kidding yourself. I think if tomorrow, even here in America the land of the free, if I had something on my property the government wanted, whether it fell out of the sky or not, I bet you the government would have no problem, arriving swiftly, cordoning off the area, detaining me for as long as they wish and removing said object forth width and there would be no one in this country or any other that would stop them.

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WanderingFool0

And I probably would never be seen again. Might very well end up in Guantanamo bay

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Habitat
Just now, WanderingFool0 said:

well I think you are kidding yourself. I think if tomorrow, even here in America the land of the free, if I had something on my property the government wanted, whether it fell out of the sky or not, I bet you the government would have no problem, arriving swiftly, cordoning off the area, detaining me for as long as they wish and removing said object forth width and there would be no one in this country or any other that would stop them.

Paranoia. Govt agencies consist of people, and there is absolutely no reason to believe some private citizens could not have acquired the killer evidence and secreted it from prying eyes. And yet, nothing. Unlikely as it seems, I think the truth behind whatever UFO's are, is that they are simply too clever to be pinned down by anyone, or we would have a celebrated case that everyone would know and speak of. You are giving that kind of credit to govt, but they just aren't that clever, as anyone who has worked for govt agencies knows !

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Habitat

Does anyone seriously believe, that a whistle-blower who exposed secret, compelling evidence about UFO's , that proved they were of alien origin, would get prosecuted under the official secrets legislation ? I think it more likely that the politician who tried, would be pilloried, for trying to keep information hidden from society, that was of a variety there was overwhelmingly, and justifiably, needing to be revealed. There have been innumerable sightings, by innumerable people, but from all that, not a single piece of "killer" evidence. Yet, somehow, the "gubmint" has it ! I am amazed at how alienated people are from the idea that the govt, is really them.

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WanderingFool0
5 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Paranoia. Govt agencies consist of people, and there is absolutely no reason to believe some private citizens could not have acquired the killer evidence and secreted it from prying eyes. And yet, nothing. Unlikely as it seems, I think the truth behind whatever UFO's are, is that they are simply too clever to be pinned down by anyone, or we would have a celebrated case that everyone would know and speak of. You are giving that kind of credit to govt, but they just aren't that clever, as anyone who has worked for govt agencies knows !

Well, we can agree to disagree. I think at the end of the day national security is often invoked and many of those agents will willing keep the secret for the good of the nation and the people and if they don't they will dealt with. And i think they are cleverer than you think. After all they often use incompentency as a cover for corruption and out right treason.

Much like 9/11. You can believe the intelligence agencies were incompetent and dropped the ball because they don't really talk to each other, but I will continue to believe that incompetence is covering for the fact they damn well knew and let it happen and in some instances helped it happen.

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Habitat

There is public will for matters of national security to involve secrecy, there being potentially enemies of the state, that information needs to be hidden from. That there would be widespread public will to make a secret out of proof of the existence of alien spacecraft, of a kind currently not in the public domain, is vastly less likely. The clamour is in the other direction.

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WanderingFool0
3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

There is public will for matters of national security to involve secrecy, there being potentially enemies of the state, that information needs to be hidden from. That there would be widespread public will to make a secret out of proof of the existence of alien spacecraft, of a kind currently not in the public domain, is vastly less likely. The clamour is in the other direction.

Yes but the government gets to decide what is a matter of national security, not the public I would also add, not even all of congress is privy to all the matter of national security only those on special panels. And of those only what they are told.

 

Edited by WanderingFool0
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Habitat
Just now, WanderingFool0 said:

Yes but the government gets to decide what is a matter of national security, not the public

The gubmint and the public are intersecting sets. As I say, where there is no apparent need for secrecy, and huge public demand for disclosure, leaking is inevitable. The leaker would become a pop hero. I am quite convinced there are inexplicable UFO's, I am not convinced anyone has the scoop on what they are.

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WanderingFool0
Just now, Habitat said:

The gubmint and the public are intersecting sets. As I say, where there is no apparent need for secrecy, and huge public demand for disclosure, leaking is inevitable. The leaker would become a pop hero. I am quite convinced there are inexplicable UFO's, I am not convinced anyone has the scoop on what they are.

i think Eisenhower and I would disagree. I don't think the public government, has much real knowledge and control over the military/industrial/intelligence complex.

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Habitat
1 minute ago, WanderingFool0 said:

i think Eisenhower and I would disagree. I don't think the public government, has much real knowledge and control over the military/industrial/intelligence complex.

You think they have control over UFO's. I don't think anyone has a bead on the phenomenon. I tend to think they are a manifestation of something we can't even imagine. Otherwise capture (of some convincing kind) would already have occurred, and be in the public domain. It is just too big to conceal.

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preacherman76

I’m not saying the government has ever had contact or anything like that, but I have little doubt they know more than us about UFO’s. 
 

I think the idea that the government is incapable of keeping secrets isn’t well thought out. 

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LeonKennedy
On 2/15/2020 at 1:48 PM, XenoFish said:

Do remember that you wrote this. Burn it into your memory for future reference.

There's been plenty of well documented cases in modern history to prove the existence of atleast other beings that we don't quite know where they come from. People who've had real experiences and even have PTSD from them. It's selfish of you and demeaning for you to downplay those very real experiences.  Who are you to take that away from them just because YOU decided they don't fit into your bubble of existence? Try getting out of that bubble one day,  you might realize the world isn't as black and white as you see it. Or who knows.... ignorance is bliss as they say. 

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Nuclear Wessel
On 2/16/2020 at 10:11 PM, LeonKennedy said:

There's been plenty of well documented cases in modern history to prove the existence of atleast other beings that we don't quite know where they come from. 

Well, where are they, then? I have yet to encounter a single "case" that didn't have a more logical, rational explanation for it. Surely you can't be serious in your assertion that these are "proof" of the existence of "other beings of unknown origin".

People who've had real experiences and even have PTSD from them. It's selfish of you and demeaning for you to downplay those very real experiences.

 

I don't think he is denying that people have had experiences that resulted in PTSD, rather downplaying the contents of the experience as not being real... which they were not. No verifiable evidence has ever been produced that did not have a terrestrial explanation. 

Who are you to take that away from them just because YOU decided they don't fit into your bubble of existence? Try getting out of that bubble one day,  you might realize the world isn't as black and white as you see it. Or who knows.... ignorance is bliss as they say.

I don't think he sees it as black and white, and he was offering a rational, logical response. Coddling emotions around these issues does nobody any favors--these people need help, and they should be encouraged to ground themselves in reality so they can see the world for what it is, not for what they want/imagine it to be. 

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