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Myles

Girls file Lawsuit against transgenders

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Setton
14 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Yeah, yeah.  Everyone here is an idiot but you. :rolleyes:

I've not said so but as you continue to argue against some fantasy instead of what is in front of you, it is one possibility. 

The others are that you're just too lazy to read it, too desperate to prove it wrong that you can't consider it, or just trolling. 

I don't believe it's the last one so it must be one of the first three. 

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aztek

since the whole thing is about feeling, let's make a poll, and see how many FEEL that way.  

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spartan max2
1 hour ago, Setton said:

So discrimination is your solution. 

Slightly better than segregation, I guess. But still.... 

Pretty inflammatory lol.

It's unfair competition to have women play against trans women because trans women still have male physical traits. Hence the crazy amount of records being broke from trans women.

It's the lesser evil to not let trans women compete against women. It sucks but not playing a competitive sport isn't the end of the world (play rec league or with friends all you want).

And it's better then your solution because your solution is a non-solution. Your solution just makes the issue a thousand times worse and screws women in the process.

 

Edited by spartan max2
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spartan max2
28 minutes ago, Setton said:

As soon as someone is prepared to actually discuss the argument I presented, I will consider the possibility it could be wrong. 

As you all seem obsessed with countering some other argument you've invented, that seems unlikely, however. 

You know, you could just be mature and simply re-state your argument.

If EVERYONE but you is "misunderstanding" your argument then maybe you are not communicating is effectively. 

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Golden Duck
35 minutes ago, Setton said:

As soon as someone is prepared to actually discuss the argument I presented, I will consider the possibility it could be wrong. 

As you all seem obsessed with countering some other argument you've invented, that seems unlikely, however. 

Actually, you made the claim that the division in sport by gender is an entirely arbitrary one.  If you wish to proffer that as anything other than just your opinion, its customary, on this site, to support it with something factual rather than snide.  As it stands you assertion of the definition remains unconvincing.

If YOU had actually read, and kept up date with,  this thread perhaps you may have stumbled across some sports journalists who are supportive of of trans-sports-women.  There's not a lot of science to confirm the 10 per cent performance disparity remains with transwomen; but, it still seems absurd to create handicap via hormonal treatment to level the playing field.

At the end of the day sport is entertainment. If it fails the pub test, it loses it's legitimacy; and, ceases to be a viable going concern.

 

Edited by Golden Duck
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Setton
13 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

You know, you could just be mature and simply re-state your argument.

I have. For seven pages. I am now bored of doing so. 

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Setton
11 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Actually, you made the claim that the division in sport by gender is an entirely arbitrary one.  If you wish to proffer that as anything other than just your opinion, its customary, on this site, to support it with something factual rather than snide.  As it stands you assertion of the definition remains unconvincing.

Once again, I'm not repeating myself for your benefit. 

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OverSword
51 minutes ago, Setton said:

As soon as someone is prepared to actually discuss the argument I presented, I will consider the possibility it could be wrong. 

As you all seem obsessed with countering some other argument you've invented, that seems unlikely, however. 

We discussed it through refutation with well documented facts.  You just don't like it.

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spartan max2
12 minutes ago, Setton said:

Once again, I'm not repeating myself for your benefit. 

But you are taking that time to repeat to everyone that you won't repeat it :rofl: lol.

Seems sort of silly to me.

Edited by spartan max2
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spartan max2

And now to debate with the people in this thread who say transgenderism is a mental disorder and not real.

With all the genetic varience and evolutionary rare changes in humans through the ages I do not find it difficult at all to believe that someone is born with a brain that feel female and has a male body. Out of all the genetic changes and mutations from humans through the year it would be more crazy to me if a change like that never happened ever.

 

And we are starting to get concrete science that supports it.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm

Quote

Brain activity and structure in transgender adolescents more closely resembles the typical activation patterns of their desired gender, according to new research. The findings suggest that differences in brain function may occur early in development and that brain imaging may be a useful tool for earlier identification of transgenderism in young people.

 

Edited by spartan max2
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Golden Duck
35 minutes ago, Setton said:

Once again, I'm not repeating myself for your benefit. 

That ol' chestnut!:rolleyes:  I hope you have it saved to save you those precious seconds.

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Myles
9 hours ago, Setton said:

T

 

Will it result in one group that is still 99% women? Probably. 

 

Nope.  You would essentially have 2 mens leagues.   

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aztek

maybe T need their own sport and even olympics, like paralympics, we'll call it trans olympic, let them compete with each other, anyway they want. 

Edited by aztek
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DieChecker
11 hours ago, likwidlite said:

For me the simplest solution is a third group.

I'd suggest even going a step further. It would be (technically) insensitive to lump these trans people in with females. It also is unfair for, say a trans female, on estrogen, to compete with males. (Just making the PC arguement)

The answer would be to create a sports Class for each gender. So all trans females (Recognized/empowered as such) would compete against other trans females. Apples with Apples.

True, everyone will watch the Mens Downhill and Womens Downhill, and the Non-Binary A-Sexual Downhill wont make the TV, but at least it will be fair to everyone. AND Politically Correct to boot!!

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DieChecker

Another option may be to create teams based on results/testing. 

A man/woman/trans that can only run a mile in 6 minutes goes on team C. If they can run the mile in 5 minutes they go on team B. If they run the mile in 4 minutes they go on team A.

So youd have levels of competition and all competitors in the level are comparible. 

The down side would be the A level would almost always be completely dominated by males, at least in many sports. And it would be the A level that makes it on TV and creates celebrities.

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aztek

why should we change for 0,01%???

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DieChecker

To appease the 5% of the population that are obsessed with Political Correctness and who create 90% of the noise on the internet/twitter/facebook???

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Professor Buzzkill

Isnt it amazing that we never see female to male athletes dominating men's sports.

It's almost like it genetic or something 

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Big Jim
2 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

And now to debate with the people in this thread who say transgenderism is a mental disorder and not real.

With all the genetic varience and evolutionary rare changes in humans through the ages I do not find it difficult at all to believe that someone is born with a brain that feel female and has a male body. Out of all the genetic changes and mutations from humans through the year it would be more crazy to me if a change like that never happened ever.

 

And we are starting to get concrete science that supports it.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm

 

I think you've captured the essence of it with one word.  Where does inclusiveness end?  At some point in our lives we all need to face our limitations, which are a result of our uniqueness.  We honor our heroes in many fields of endeavor precisely because not everyone can do what they do.  We all must face the consequences of our decisions.  If you are a man but feel you are a woman in the wrong body, fine, make alterations until you're satisfied but realize that making that choice takes others off the table.  It's no different than a concert pianist not also being able to be a boxer.  

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Setton
6 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Another option may be to create teams based on results/testing. 

A man/woman/trans that can only run a mile in 6 minutes goes on team C. If they can run the mile in 5 minutes they go on team B. If they run the mile in 4 minutes they go on team A.

So youd have levels of competition and all competitors in the level are comparible. 

The down side would be the A level would almost always be completely dominated by males, at least in many sports. And it would be the A level that makes it on TV and creates celebrities.

Literally what I've been suggesting for 7 pages... 

You just need to get away from the idea that 'Team A' is the best. 

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Golden Duck

Let's return to the reality of Hannah Mouncey.

Quote

In 2017, Mouncey’s attempt to join the AFL Women’s, the national Australian rules football league for female players, was blocked by the league on the grounds of her “strength, stamina or physique.”

New AFL policies required transgender athletes to prove their testosterone levels stayed at or below 5 nmol/L for 24 months.

Mouncey decided to withdraw from the AFL Women’s draft last year rather than go through with a blood test.

“There are a number of things I can’t risk by continuing this fight, which are far more important than football,” she said 

The grounds of "strength, stamina, and physique" weren't sufficient for everybody.  MLK had a dream too, but it took more than a blood test to douse it.

Those of you who've kept up with this thread surely would be aware of Cate McGregor's support and reassurance of the safety of other footballers.  

Quote

“I can confirm that, yes, I was left out of the team for the World Championships because there was a group of players within the team, supported by the team manager, who did not want me showering or using the change rooms before or after the game,” Hannah Mouncey wrote in a Dec. 7 op-ed for the Star Observer, a magazine that caters to the LGBT community in Australia.

...

“And the reason I’m not liked is because I told our manager, and by extension those players, exactly where he and they could go in trying to tell me where I could change and shower,” she wrote.

...

“And the reason I’m not liked is because I told our manager, and by extension those players, exactly where he and they could go in trying to tell me where I could change and shower,” she wrote.

https://pluralist.com/hannah-mouncey-transgender-handball/

So ultimately what is this issue about?  Who trampled whom?

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Big Jim
4 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Hannah Mouncey wrote in a Dec. 7 op-ed for the Star Observer, a magazine that caters to the LGBT community in Australia.

The thing I take away from this is that she's using a self segregating magazine to complain about not being included.

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Myles
6 hours ago, Setton said:

Literally what I've been suggesting for 7 pages... 

You just need to get away from the idea that 'Team A' is the best. 

Team "A" would be all males and it WOULD be the best.

Anyone with a daughter might as well give up on any athletic events.  My daughter swims.   She's not the best, but is in the top 3-4 swimmers.   She is slower than the worst male swimmer.   If male swimmers were competing in the female league, she would be out of options for any athletics.  

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spartan max2
13 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Another option may be to create teams based on results/testing. 

A man/woman/trans that can only run a mile in 6 minutes goes on team C. If they can run the mile in 5 minutes they go on team B. If they run the mile in 4 minutes they go on team A.

So youd have levels of competition and all competitors in the level are comparible. 

The down side would be the A level would almost always be completely dominated by males, at least in many sports. And it would be the A level that makes it on TV and creates celebrities.

I think the devil is in the details with something like this.

Because even if you have a male and female running the same mile per minute. No test is going to be able to account for all the differences in stamina recovery rate, bone structures, muscle to fat ratio, etc. Which leads to injuries and general unfair competition. For example men's upper bodies is often much stronger regardless of if a women runs the same speed for a short amount of time. That would lead to many injuries. 

A second issue is that with this model the highest performing women are going to be with the lowest performing men. So basically a female who works her ass off and trains will be stuck with a male who dosen't work that hard. It's shown that the top 10 percent of strongest women (think Olympics) are about as strong as the bottom 10 percent of men.

So how insanely does that disincentives women to play sports when all they can hope for is working their ass off to be with the lowest performing males in a lower bracket?

There are more issues around this when you get into the details and think through the consequences. But those are just the ones off the top of my head.

Sports should be a fairly equal playing field where if you work you ass off to train it puts you at the top of your sport and not just moves you up to be with the lowest performing males.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/biological-sex-differences/

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Big Jim
1 hour ago, spartan max2 said:

I think the devil is in the details with something like this.

Because even if you have a male and female running the same mile per minute. No test is going to be able to account for all the differences in stamina recovery rate, bone structures, muscle to fat ratio, etc. Which leads to injuries and general unfair competition. For example men's upper bodies is often much stronger regardless of if a women runs the same speed for a short amount of time. That would lead to many injuries. 

A second issue is that with this model the highest performing women are going to be with the lowest performing men. So basically a female who works her ass off and trains will be stuck with a male who dosen't work that hard. It's shown that the top 10 percent of strongest women (think Olympics) are about as strong as the bottom 10 percent of men.

So how insanely does that disincentives women to play sports when all they can hope for is working their ass off to be with the lowest performing males in a lower bracket?

There are more issues around this when you get into the details and think through the consequences. But those are just the ones off the top of my head.

Sports should be a fairly equal playing field where if you work you ass off to train it puts you at the top of your sport and not just moves you up to be with the lowest performing males.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/biological-sex-differences/

Just a couple points, the lowest performing men aren't necessarily lazier than the top performing men.  Genetics also plays a part in man to man competition.  Most of the stars in any particular sport are physically configured to excel at what they do.  A football player could work harder than anyone and still not make it on a basketball team and vice-versa.  Certain body types are more suitable for one sport than for all sports.  Also, very few sports involve excellence at just one activity like running.  A lot of sports require running and then performing another activity when you get there.  So selecting equal runners across all possible genders still doesn't provide a team with the wide range of skills needed.  Dividing teams between men and women has worked for years.  The only ones complaining are those few who don't fit either category.  There has to be a better solution than changing the nature of sports for the 99% to accommodate the 1%.

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