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Eldorado

USAF now accepts turbans, beards & hijabs

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Eldorado

"The U.S. Air Force last week updated its dress code, making it easier for personnel to seek religious accommodations for beards, hijabs and turbans.

"The move follows a similar policy instituted by the Army and has drawn praise from Sikh and Muslim religious organizations.

"Under the guidelines released Feb. 7, Muslim women will be allowed to wear hijabs, Islamic head scarves, while Sikh men will be allowed to wear turbans and uncut hair. The new guidelines also allow religious or medical exemptions to grow beards up to 2 inches long."

Full monty at Tampa Bay Times: https://www.tampabay.com/news/military/2020/02/14/air-force-updates-dress-code-to-allow-hijabs-beards-and-turbans/

And at Fox: https://www.foxnews.com/us/air-force-to-allow-uniformed-members-to-wear-turbans-hijabs-beards-in-new-dress-code-update-officials-say

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and then

Yeah... who needs uniforms or standards of discipline?  What a joke this nation is becoming...

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Manwon Lender
2 hours ago, and then said:

Yeah... who needs uniforms or standards of discipline?  What a joke this nation is becoming...

Sorry partner, but President Trump must approve of it, even though most certainly never will.

Peace

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and then
4 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Sorry partner, but President Trump must approve of it, even though most certainly never will.

Peace

I hope he doesn't approve but he tends to leave such decisions to the minds inside the services.  When will they learn that attempting to appeal to cultural sensitivities is NOT what their mission is about?  It isn't bigotry or discrimination to cause the members to dress and behave UNIFORMLY when serving.  Without basic discipline and making all troops apply the same behavior, the military will be sorely weakened, IMO.  I remember a few guys when I was in basic at Fort Jackson.  They decided they wanted to crop their hair even shorter and "set themselves apart"  The Drill NAILED their ass and no one else got the idea to be "different".  The military has always been set apart, walking to a different drummer, so to speak.  It isn't about fashion...it's about making a harsh environment more bearable and less disorganized.  

Out here on the street if a boss says something you don't like, you can tell him what you think and go your own way.  Try that in many situations in Service and people get wounded or dead - as you well know.  

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toast

Q: do have Sikh F-22 pilots to wear the turban under the helmet or above the helmet? Whats the g-force resistance of a turban in general?

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Setton
13 hours ago, and then said:

Yeah... who needs uniforms or standards of discipline?  What a joke this nation is becoming...

Because a shave and a hair cut is what makes a capable soldier :lol:

Well, I guess it's your only hope, Armchair. 

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RoofGardener
6 minutes ago, Setton said:

Because a shave and a hair cut is what makes a capable soldier :lol:

Well, I guess it's your only hope, Armchair. 

Imposed uniformity of appearance is a standard military doctrine for trainee soldiers. 

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aztek

 

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Buzz_Light_Year

I like the medical exceptions. I can't begin to count the number of black male service members we discharged from the Marines because of Pseudofolliculitis barbae. It is where men that have curly facial hair the hairs grow back into the skin. https://www.aocd.org/page/pseudofolliculitisb

It can happen to all races with curly facial hair but mostly African or the Negroid race.

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Setton
4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Imposed uniformity of appearance is a standard military doctrine for trainee soldiers. 

Yes, I forget that until 1750, armies just ran in circles hoping to accidentally skewer each other. 

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DieChecker

Hey, if they want to separate themselves for ease of being singled out, for being muslim/sikh, that's on them. Just dont cry about it if it becomes a scarlet letter.

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OverSword

snip

Edited by OverSword

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Big Jim

How is this fair to all the recruits who still have to conform to the military standard for grooming?  If Christians or Jews were given special treatment the Left would be up in arms.

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Gromdor
1 minute ago, Big Jim said:

How is this fair to all the recruits who still have to conform to the military standard for grooming?  If Christians or Jews were given special treatment the Left would be up in arms.

Um.  Jews can wear yarmulkes now as well.  Christians could invent a hat so they can wear one too, I suppose.

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Big Jim
1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

Um.  Jews can wear yarmulkes now as well.  Christians could invent a hat so they can wear one too, I suppose.

Thanks for the information.  Perhaps you can explain how making it easier for 2 traditional enemies to recognize each other within our own armed forces is a good idea.  If I were either a Jew or a Muslim I don't think I could trust my opposite number to have my back when needed.

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Gromdor
5 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Thanks for the information.  Perhaps you can explain how making it easier for 2 traditional enemies to recognize each other within our own armed forces is a good idea.  If I were either a Jew or a Muslim I don't think I could trust my opposite number to have my back when needed.

Eh, that's a myth propagated mostly by those seeking political currency here.  99.999% of Muslims and Jews don't run around and kill each other on sight.  They all worship the same god, their only quibble is over dogma and ownership of the holy dirt in the Middle East.  My Jewish brother-in-law deals heavily with Muslim clients in his business.  Heck, my Jewish niece dated an Iranian going to college around here.  I'd be more worried about the White Supremacists:  https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2019/02/28/white-nationalism-remains-a-problem-for-the-military-poll-shows/

Personally, I think this policy is a direct reaction to that problem.   I'm thinking the military wants to show that it isn't a haven for them by having it's diversity visible.

 

 

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Setton
15 hours ago, Big Jim said:

Thanks for the information.  Perhaps you can explain how making it easier for 2 traditional enemies to recognize each other within our own armed forces is a good idea.  If I were either a Jew or a Muslim I don't think I could trust my opposite number to have my back when needed.

Well that just shows that you're more ignorant than your average soldier. 

Jesus. 

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Setton
17 hours ago, Big Jim said:

How is this fair to all the recruits who still have to conform to the military standard for grooming?  If Christians or Jews were given special treatment the Left would be up in arms.

If you can find a religious obligation Christians or Jews are not allowed to observe, you might have a point. 

I'm sure we'd all appreciate the novelty. 

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odas
23 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Hey, if they want to separate themselves for ease of being singled out, for being muslim/sikh, that's on them. Just dont cry about it if it becomes a scarlet letter.

So, in other words you want them to be - white?

So a black american soldier singels himself/herself out by default?

Hor aryan from you.

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DieChecker
7 hours ago, odas said:

So, in other words you want them to be - white?

So a black american soldier singels himself/herself out by default?

Hor aryan from you.

Oh, I didnt know a black person could hide their skin color, please excuse me.

I dont want people to all be white, but if someone wants to participate in an exclusive group, they have to change themselves to fit.

All us soldiers have to be clean shaven, with short hair. Not overweight. Their boots and uniform have to meet specific standards. If not, they get in trouble.

I'm all for religious tolerance, but when it provides special things to individuals, it is being abused.

Should soldiers be allowed to wear whatever uniform they wish? Should the allow soldiers with long beards? Should a soldier be able to wear a rainbow umbrella hat to formation?

Extreme examples, but they illustrate the point.

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Setton
11 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Should soldiers be allowed to wear whatever uniform they wish? Should the allow soldiers with long beards? Should a soldier be able to wear a rainbow umbrella hat to formation?

Extreme examples, but they illustrate the point.

To which the only intelligent response is 'Yes, unless it stops then doing their job effectively'. 

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odas
15 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Oh, I didnt know a black person could hide their skin color, please excuse me.

 

 

Why would they hide it?

South America. Africa. Middle and far East...now even Europe. We all have to change, to fit in according to your, US expectations. Not gonna happen anymore. We, muslims, sikhs, hindus, gays, lesbians, blacks, browns.. we are proud of who and what we are and we will not hide it anymore to noone.

Time for you to change, we did our part.

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DieChecker
46 minutes ago, odas said:

South America. Africa. Middle and far East...now even Europe. We all have to change, to fit in according to your, US expectations. Not gonna happen anymore. We, muslims, sikhs, hindus, gays, lesbians, blacks, browns.. we are proud of who and what we are and we will not hide it anymore to noone.

That's great! But, if you desire that, simply stay out of the military. Simple answer to a simple problem. Dont wish to conform, dont join.

I have no issues with them wearing whatever they wish off duty. But the military isnt a democracy, it is a totalitarian dictatorship. People, especially enlisted, dont get to do as they please.

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DieChecker
5 hours ago, Setton said:

To which the only intelligent response is 'Yes, unless it stops then doing their job effectively'. 

What if doing their job effectively requires conformity, and anonymity?

Imagine if your unit deploys to Afghanistan and your squad is in a native village. Is someone wearing a yamaka, a turban, or a rainbow knit cap, going to be treated the same as a generic looking soldier? 

Appearance definitely has an effect on those in the environment, and thus on how effective the soldier is.

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Setton
1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

What if doing their job effectively requires conformity, and anonymity?

Imagine if your unit deploys to Afghanistan and your squad is in a native village. Is someone wearing a yamaka, a turban, or a rainbow knit cap, going to be treated the same as a generic looking soldier? 

Appearance definitely has an effect on those in the environment, and thus on how effective the soldier is.

Yeah, I'm sure the civilians will be more concerned with the soldier's religious beliefs than the massive gun he's pointing at them... 

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