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spartan max2

Utah Senate votes to decriminalize polygamy

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spartan max2

On one hand I believe we should let people do what they want, but on the other hand I worry this law is just to help Mormon cultist abuse young girls into marriage.

 

Quote

Utah’s state Senate voted unanimously to decriminalize polygamy, hoping to make it an infraction on par with a parking ticket.

The bill swiftly cleared the Republican-controlled Senate in the predominantly Mormon state with a vote of 29-0 with little discussion on Tuesday. It now moves to the Utah House of Representatives, where it is likely to face greater resistance.

https://nypost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/nypost.com/2020/02/19/utahs-state-senate-votes-unanimously-to-decriminalize-polygamy/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2020%2F02%2F19%2Futahs-state-senate-votes-unanimously-to-decriminalize-polygamy%2F

Edited by spartan max2
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Desertrat56

Well, since they already do that (abuse young girls into marriage) maybe it is to decriminlize it, There are laws about the legal marriage ages.  Every state is different, though, and some of the southern states have lower ages for girls than Utah does.

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OverSword

As long as it's consenting adults and nobody gets an extra spouse without the consent of others in the marriage I don't have a problem with it.  Gay marriage has opened my eyes about how other peoples marriages are not our business.

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Gromdor

The ones that legally marry one wife and then church marries a bunch of others only to put them and their kids on welfare while they live like kings are the problem.  If Utah's law takes care of that issue, I am all for it.  They are going to do it anyways regardless of what anyone says anyways.

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susieice

If you want all those spouses and in laws under one roof, God bless ya.

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Doug1029

So what's next?

How about polyamory?

Doug

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Desertrat56
7 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

So what's next?

How about polyamory?

Doug

Is that illegal?

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spartan max2
18 minutes ago, OverSword said:

As long as it's consenting adults and nobody gets an extra spouse without the consent of others in the marriage I don't have a problem with it.  Gay marriage has opened my eyes about how other peoples marriages are not our business.

That's why I'm conflicted about it. Because live and left live.

But I also don't like the idea of decriminalizing the marriage of pressured 16,17,18 year old girls to some Mormon guy. I feel like a strict punishment should be allowed for when the 16 year old gets older, escapes the indoctrination, and then wants revenge. 

 

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OverSword
15 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

So what's next?

How about polyamory?

Doug

It already happens.

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Doug1029
11 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Is that illegal?

I think most states view it as consensual infidelity and don't take action unless somebody complains.

Doug

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Doug1029
4 minutes ago, OverSword said:

It already happens.

We know it happens.  But why not make it a recognized form of marriage?

Doug

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susieice
23 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

The ones that legally marry one wife and then church marries a bunch of others only to put them and their kids on welfare while they live like kings are the problem.  If Utah's law takes care of that issue, I am all for it.  They are going to do it anyways regardless of what anyone says anyways.

The original Morman tenant said the man had to be able to support the wives and children he had. Brigham Young had 55 wives and 56 kids.  Now, he can sit around and live off the wives if he sends them to work. Or he can collect welfare. It's up to the people of Utah to decide if they will support this as welfare is state funded for the most part. That's probably why this will face more resistance in the Utah House of Representatives. Not all residents of Utah are Morman either.

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spartan max2
23 minutes ago, susieice said:

The original Morman tenant said the man had to be able to support the wives and children he had. Brigham Young had 55 wives and 56 kids.  Now, he can sit around and live off the wives if he sends them to work. Or he can collect welfare. It's up to the people of Utah to decide if they will support this as welfare is state funded for the most part. That's probably why this will face more resistance in the Utah House of Representatives. Not all residents of Utah are Morman either.

I think that's why I have resistance to it too, because it's coming from Utah, which means the Mormons who has sketchy practices.

If it was from a different state where it was just Grass Roots couples wanting to marry then I wouldn't feel against it 

Edited by spartan max2
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OverSword
44 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

We know it happens.  But why not make it a recognized form of marriage?

Doug

Not a problem for me.  For those involved I will predict HUGE problems though :D

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Doug1029
12 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Not a problem for me.  For those involved I will predict HUGE problems though :D

Those trying to live polyamorous relationships already face huge problems.  Exactly who is responsible for raising any kids?  The second spouse has no legal rights.  They cannot receive survivors benefits under Social Security or most retirement plans.  Etc. etc.

It's a beautiful thing, but the state makes it unnecessarily difficult.

Doug

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rashore

Interesting that it's a reduction from a third degree felony to a minor offense to get a few hundred dollar ticket and community service. Time will tell if it passes the House next.

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spartan max2
41 minutes ago, Doug1029 said:

Those trying to live polyamorous relationships already face huge problems.  Exactly who is responsible for raising any kids?  The second spouse has no legal rights.  They cannot receive survivors benefits under Social Security or most retirement plans.  Etc. etc.

It's a beautiful thing, but the state makes it unnecessarily difficult.

Doug

But it's from Utah. It's just Mormons changing the law so they  can indoctrinate very young women without threat of any serious legal trouble. 

 

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Big Jim

This has legal ramifications beyond Utah.  Outlawing polygamy was a condition of statehood.  It had been the norm among Mormons in the territory but became an issue when they want to join the U.S.  If it wasn't completely up the them then I don't see how it can be now.

As far as being a way to recruit children, the legal age for marrying is separate from who you're allowed to marry.  Even if they would be able to allow polygamy there's no reason to believe that they will target children.  I understand that some practitioners have done that in the past, but they were already operating outside the law just by being polygamous, so what's one more law?  Making it legal may actually help to protect children by bringing the practice out in the open.

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aztek
1 hour ago, susieice said:

The original Morman tenant said the man had to be able to support the wives and children he had. Brigham Young had 55 wives and 56 kids.  Now, he can sit around and live off the wives if he sends them to work. Or he can collect welfare. It's up to the people of Utah to decide if they will support this as welfare is state funded for the most part. That's probably why this will face more resistance in the Utah House of Representatives. Not all residents of Utah are Morman either.

welfare is awarded on case by case basis.  i do not see anything criminal if wives work and husband does not. it would be sexist to say today, men is supposed to be a provider, and a woman housewife. we are in equality phase these days

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Manwon Lender
3 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Let's hope so since many of the Brides are 13 to 15 years old, which is nothing more than Child abuse. In my opinion the vote should be whether to Castrate these Pedophiles or not.

Peace

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spartan max2
32 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

This has legal ramifications beyond Utah.  Outlawing polygamy was a condition of statehood.  It had been the norm among Mormons in the territory but became an issue when they want to join the U.S.  If it wasn't completely up the them then I don't see how it can be now.

As far as being a way to recruit children, the legal age for marrying is separate from who you're allowed to marry.  Even if they would be able to allow polygamy there's no reason to believe that they will target children.  I understand that some practitioners have done that in the past, but they were already operating outside the law just by being polygamous, so what's one more law?  Making it legal may actually help to protect children by bringing the practice out in the open.

Explain to me how this law would help to protect a minor or an indoctrinated 18 year old?

This clearly protects the Mormons by giving a softer penality.

Read any stories from ex-mormon women. They deserve to be able to bring down the full force of the law when they leave later in life.

Edited by spartan max2
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Big Jim
4 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Explain to me how this law would help to protect a minor or an indoctrinated 18 year old?

The explanation is in the post you quoted.

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spartan max2
51 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

This has legal ramifications beyond Utah.  Outlawing polygamy was a condition of statehood.  It had been the norm among Mormons in the territory but became an issue when they want to join the U.S.  If it wasn't completely up the them then I don't see how it can be now.

As far as being a way to recruit children, the legal age for marrying is separate from who you're allowed to marry.  Even if they would be able to allow polygamy there's no reason to believe that they will target children.  I understand that some practitioners have done that in the past, but they were already operating outside the law just by being polygamous, so what's one more law?  Making it legal may actually help to protect children by bringing the practice out in the open.

Okay, actually explain beyond surface level how this would help protect anyone.

You can't just say brings it into "the open". Walk me through how it would actually work to provide protection. In practical concrete examples of how it would work to help someone on the real world.

Because all it does is "decriminalize" which means lesson the penality for the crime. 

 

Edited by spartan max2
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Big Jim
7 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Okay, actually explain beyond surface level how this would help protect anyone.

You can't just say brings it into "the open". Walk me through how it would actually work to provide protection. In practical concrete examples of how it would work to help someone on the real world.

Because all it does is "decriminalize" which means lesson the penality for the crime. 

 

That's as deep as I want to go on this subject.  If you want more do it yourself.

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spartan max2
6 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

That's as deep as I want to go on this subject.  If you want more do it yourself.

Okay, well from my perspective, decriminalizing the harmful practices of the Mormons isn't going to help the victims (but it will help protect the perpetrators) anymore then decriminalizing rape would help the victims.

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