Moving portals theory

[ocpaul20]

3 hours ago, stereologist said:

Clearly you do not since you do not understand how the conservation of energy and momentum  apply to this notion of portals and make them impossible.

You come from the "make it up fantasy" camp. You argue from a position of personal ignorance.

Here you use the logical fallacy of numbers: "There are millions more of us". That has nothing to do with what is correct. At best it tells us that there are many sadly mistaken people out there.

Again you make more fundamental mistakes. A personal experience does not make or break the situation. Your suggestion of "The more you remain fixed in hard logic and physics, the harder this shock will be when it comes." is another failure on your part.

As we have seen when it comes to deciding the merits of portals you have not addressed anything of value. Instead you promote our fantasies avoiding the fact that you can't address anything of value.

And you are still posting on this thread because... ?

[WanderingFool0]

On 2/21/2020 at 8:23 PM, Tuco's Gas said:

If they do exist, I think perhaps they'd have a scientific and not paranormal explanation. My favorite guess would be they're some sort of "mini Black Hole." That is, much like cosmological black holes are comprised of collapsed giant stars that have exhausted their fuel supply and nuclear fusion process, thus contracting inwards on themselves, maybe Earthly Portals are collapsed areas of biospheric and geologic energy?

Well there is the story of the nazi bell and counter rotating magnetic fields creating warping and tearing effect in the space time field. The magnetic field of the earth is always moving and fluctuating it could be at certain points for the barest of moments the earths magnetic field is able to warp and cause temporary tears in the space time field.

[Kenemet]

1 hour ago, WanderingFool0 said:

Well there is the story of the nazi bell and counter rotating magnetic fields creating warping and tearing effect in the space time field. The magnetic field of the earth is always moving and fluctuating it could be at certain points for the barest of moments the earths magnetic field is able to warp and cause temporary tears in the space time field.

Do you have a source for that story? 

Now, frankly, it sounds implausible.  If moving magnetic fields are able to "warp and cause temporary tears in the space time field" then anyone who fires up a strong electromagnet is going to create portals and the sun would be constantly flinging out portals and space around Jupiter (which has the strongest magnetic field (by a factor of 10) would be extremely unstable (so we couldn't actually put anything in orbit around it.)

[Windowpane]

2 hours ago, WanderingFool0 said:

Well there is the story of the nazi bell and counter rotating magnetic fields creating warping and tearing effect in the space time field. The magnetic field of the earth is always moving and fluctuating it could be at certain points for the barest of moments the earths magnetic field is able to warp and cause temporary tears in the space time field.

Kenemet wrote:

Quote

Do you have a source for that story? 

I found this and this.

[Piney]

4 hours ago, WanderingFool0 said:

Well there is the story of the nazi bell and counter rotating magnetic fields creating warping and tearing effect in the space time field. The magnetic field of the earth is always moving and fluctuating it could be at certain points for the barest of moments the earths magnetic field is able to warp and cause temporary tears in the space time field.

 

2 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Do you have a source for that story? 

Now, frankly, it sounds implausible.  If moving magnetic fields are able to "warp and cause temporary tears in the space time field" then anyone who fires up a strong electromagnet is going to create portals and the sun would be constantly flinging out portals and space around Jupiter (which has the strongest magnetic field (by a factor of 10) would be extremely unstable (so we couldn't actually put anything in orbit around it.)

If spacetime tears the whole universe is in deep poop. It wouldn't stop.  

[Rlyeh]

8 hours ago, ocpaul20 said:

So, we both believe we have a handle on reality.

You come from a hard physical "if you cannot poke it with a stick and test it, then it is not real" position.

I come from "There is more to this reality than physical matter" camp.

There are millions more of us (taking religions into account) than there are of you, so I guess you think of my camp as sadly deluded and science is king.

I dont think there is any middle ground where we can meet until you have an encounter with some event which changes your mind. That might be a ghost, alien or cryptid encounter, an NDE, or you may have to wait until you move on from here, but some day it will happen. The more you remain fixed in hard logic and physics, the harder this shock will be when it comes.

Portals may not be the answer to these unexplained phenomena, but I reckon it is a good first guess.

I come from the position "Explanations should be supported".

You clearly come from the position of "I can't work it out, therefore magic".

Experiences aren't infallible, I wonder if you think drug induced hallucinations are real?

 

[stereologist]

5 hours ago, ocpaul20 said:

And you are still posting on this thread because... ?

I see you still have not posted anything to contribute to the thread.

Try addressing any of the specific numerous points I made about why portals are impossible. For instance the problems with conservation of energy and conservation of momentum.

[+joc]

9 hours ago, Piney said:

By the Newage definition. Not the real Asian one. 

Master Mun would agree with you.  The channeling of energy to a particular part of your body.  5th Taekwondo...8th KungFu...he is the essence of Tai chi...

[Festina]

11 hours ago, ocpaul20 said:

Stereologist -

 

 

 

 

Our laws are limited to our reality as we currently understand it and cannot account for situations which transcend that into other dimensions. Your attitude of "It does not obey the laws of physics, so it must be all in the mind and cannot be real" does show you as one who does not welcome investigating unknowns. I guess you are just a frustrated wannabe scientist.

Anything reported consistently down the ages must have some kind of basis in truth. It is up to science to find out what that truth is, not to close down discussion and reports. These events may not have physical proof so we can study it, but none the less may be a real physical phenomenon, we just dont know so we cannot dismiss it out-of-hand.

Many people have reported things appearing and disappearing in their homes, coins, rings, pebbles suddenly appearing and falling to the floor in situations where they are unlikely/impossible. I dont know whether this phenomena is one which uses 'portals' to manifest objects or not, however it HAS been reported far too many times for it to be, as you will probably patiently explain to us, normal everyday events.  This is just another example of unexplainable-by-science events which happen occasionally to people across the world, and your attempts to explain these away are pitiful and insulting to the folks who report them.

Thank you.   You made my day.

A previous poster asked why “I would post this event HERE”.  Seriously?  

 — Unexplained Mysteries —

SMH

 

 

[WanderingFool0]

2 hours ago, Piney said:

 

If spacetime tears the whole universe is in deep poop. It wouldn't stop.  

But how would you know? Have we observed a space time tear? I mean space time could end up being like layers and one layer may tear temporarily dropping something in another time and seal back shut. And really as far as I know the fabric of space/time is a concept, we don't really know if it exists as a field or what that field is made up of.

 

[WanderingFool0]

5 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Do you have a source for that story? 

Now, frankly, it sounds implausible.  If moving magnetic fields are able to "warp and cause temporary tears in the space time field" then anyone who fires up a strong electromagnet is going to create portals and the sun would be constantly flinging out portals and space around Jupiter (which has the strongest magnetic field (by a factor of 10) would be extremely unstable (so we couldn't actually put anything in orbit around it.)

I would say maybe not if it is actually the interaction between two magnetic field that causes the warping. Jupiter may have a higher field but is also father from the sun. It could be a rare occurrence of a specific interaction between the field of the earth and the sun interacting with each other. Since the reports of people experiencing strange phenomena in the flow of space and time is rare compared to the population, if there are portals they would seem to be extremely rare and sporadic and may be the result of just the right interaction and fluctuation.

[Festina]

To be clear...I do not believe the socks came from another dimension.  They were purchased in this one. But they were evidence that the people I met were indeed from another place.

Here are Some Details on this particular event, as there were many before and after this one. 

This event occurred during hurricane Sandy in Norfolk, VA.  I had had two very unusual Unexplainable events that had occurred in the months before.  Not knowing anything about such things I figured out that these were metaphysical.  My mother was ill and living in NC at the time so I thought I would pay her a visit and then drive to Virginia Beach and visit the Metaphysical library at A.R.E. . https://caycelibrary.com

I needed some new jeans as I had lost weight and my pants were falling off. So, I went shopping, something I’m not particularly fond of.  There were three people in the department on the “second floor” when I landed who when I approached them KNEW WHO I WAS.  They didn’t call me by my name but they knew things about me.  This was not just a bit unsettling.  They asked me questions, and told me a few things.  Then the male of the group then said somewhat forcefully  ‘we have some great novelty socks’ on the first floor, check them out’.   I hated novelty socks at the time but I felt  compelled by ‘some thing’  to purchase them.  So I did.  Why?  I think it was the messengers way of instilling via a material object that out conversation really happened and to not forget it or the event itself.  The man gave me something else as well. Very strangely the original of this particular item had been taken from my hotel room, with many other personal items a couple of days later.  Something again compelled me — I needed to make a copy ‘just in case’, which I did shortly after I received the item which I stared at for days to remind me that this event really occurred, as I did not believe it.  Intuition at its finest.  That copy I still possess.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Festina

[+Desertrat56]

@Festina I know you think people are giving you a hard time about this.  It is not something that is mainstream enough for any one to really grok.  You had an experience and you decided it meant something.  I knew a woman years ago who believed all mirrors were portals if you knew how to use them.  She experienced missing items after she placed them next to a mirror.  At the time she was married and she was also a drug addict so it was hard to believe her, but she did have other experiences that led her to the conclusion that someone was coming through her mirror to steal her stuff.  How would you react to that if she told you about it?  It could have been her husband selling her jewlery to make up for the money she spent on drugs, or she might have done something and forgotten.  Or someone reached through her mirror and took it.  No one knows, not even herself. 

I found a long time ago that any proof of high strangeness that I have ever found was only proof for myself, not proof I could share.  The sharing ends up being anecdotes that anyone can claim were made up or that I am delusional.  Don't be attached to proving anything to any one, just yourself.  You know who you are and what you have experienced.  Sometimes over the years you may find other explanations that make more sense but for now you have a belief that you know what those experiences indicate.

When my mother was dying of cancer I was taking care of her and my two grandsons.  There was a lot of emotion and chaos around us.  I decided to take the boys on a train ride but we had to be at the station by 9 am.  I had everything ready and we headed to the car only for me to find that the key was missing.  We looked everywhere for that key, dumped the bag I was carrying, and sorted it all and there was no key.  We had to give up because I had no spare key (those being lost in another weird way).  Once we went back in to the house I unpacked the bag to put everything away and there was the key.  I took it to mean that we needed to stay home but it was very disappointing to all of us, not getting our train ride.  There was no way we would not have found that key if it were in the bag when we dumped everything out and went through it piece by piece by piece.  And I know many on this forum will say it was because I was stressed and the key was in a fold of something, but it wasn't.  It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Desertrat56

[WanderingFool0]

10 minutes ago, Tuco's Gas said:

Not a very impressive source, is it? More of a paranormal writer just repeating old conspiracy theories.

I highly doubt the Nazis could have developed flying saucers when they couldn't even get their fighter jets to work. Those came at the very end of the war and had a crash and burn rate of over 50%. They were basically unintentional kamikaze planes. LOL 

Well, the problem with knowing what the Nazi's knew is, that the allies took all the data and information and we don't know how much of that data and information they chose to release. We do know the German chemical and pharmaceutical companies were actually making quite a few advancements. How much of Dow and Eli Lily and etc's chemical and pharmaceutical knowledge came from those companies, quite a bit, since the US government handed them and many others the German's formulas and patents.

And as far as air craft failure rates, many of those aircraft were produced using slave labor and after the war, survivors of the factories claimed that many of them actually were helping the allies by purposely sabotaging the production of some of that war munitions and craft. How much of that 50 percent failure rate was due to sabotage? I would say, it's an unknown quantity that could actually adjust the failure rate just from technical know how by a bit at least.

Edited February 27, 2020 by WanderingFool0
correction

[WanderingFool0]

I would also add that if the German scientists were such failures or didn't have any advancements, than why is it that through operation paperclip, we took those same scientists and use them to develop the rockets and space suits for the US space program?

[+Desertrat56]

8 minutes ago, WanderingFool0 said:

And as far as air craft failure rates, many of those aircraft were produced using slave labor and after the war, survivors of the factories claimed that many of them actually were helping the allies by purposely sabotaging the production of some of that war munitions and craft.

Not to mention there was very little concern for german soldiers safety or survival as long as they could keep the enemies at bay, it didn't matter if it was actual men still fighting or piles of dead that had to be climbed over to get past the front lines.

[Festina]

Air Marshal Sir Robert Victor Goddard, KCB, CBE, DL (6 February 1897 – 21 January 1987) was a senior commander in the Royal Air Force during the Second World War.

Goddard is perhaps best known for his interest in paranormal phenomena; he claimed to have witnessed a clairvoyant incident in 1946 on which the feature film The Night My Number Came Up (1955) was later based.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Goddard

Time Slip Adventure

https://www.strangerdimensions.com/2015/02/25/sir-victor-goddards-time-slip-adventure/

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/31061793-flight-towards-reality

 

[Festina]

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

@Festina I know you think people are giving you a hard time about this.  It is not something that is mainstream enough for any one to really grok.  You had an experience and you decided it meant something.  I knew a woman years ago who believed all mirrors were portals if you knew how to use them.  She experienced missing items after she placed them next to a mirror.  At the time she was married and she was also a drug addict so it was hard to believe her, but she did have other experiences that led her to the conclusion that someone was coming through her mirror to steal her stuff.  How would you react to that if she told you about it?  It could have been her husband selling her jewlery to make up for the money she spent on drugs, or she might have done something and forgotten.  Or someone reached through her mirror and took it.  No one knows, not even herself. 

I found a long time ago that any proof of high strangeness that I have ever found was only proof for myself, not proof I could share.  The sharing ends up being anecdotes that anyone can claim were made up or that I am delusional.  Don't be attached to proving anything to any one, just yourself.  You know who you are and what you have experienced.  Sometimes over the years you may find other explanations that make more sense but for now you have a belief that you know what those experiences indicate.

When my mother was dying of cancer I was taking care of her and my two grandsons.  There was a lot of emotion and chaos around us.  I decided to take the boys on a train ride but we had to be at the station by 9 am.  I had everything ready and we headed to the car only for me to find that the key was missing.  We looked everywhere for that key, dumped the bag I was carrying, and sorted it all and there was no key.  We had to give up because I had no spare key (those being lost in another weird way).  Once we went back in to the house I unpacked the bag to put everything away and there was the key.  I took it to mean that we needed to stay home but it was very disappointing to all of us, not getting our train ride.  There was no way we would not have found that key if it were in the bag when we dumped everything out and went through it piece by piece by piece.  And I know many on this forum will say it was because I was stressed and the key was in a fold of something, but it wasn't.  It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

Thank you Dr for your support, response and sharing your experiences.  

There was nothing mysterious  about the ‘disappearance’ of the items that went missing — which were everyday personal things with one exception, the one from the man at the store  — They were taken by my husband at the time and tossed in the trash and I was unable to retrieve them.  However, that I was compelled to copy the item I received from the man and place it in my wallet the day before my husband tossed the original IS very interesting. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Festina

[stereologist]

2 hours ago, WanderingFool0 said:

But how would you know? Have we observed a space time tear? I mean space time could end up being like layers and one layer may tear temporarily dropping something in another time and seal back shut. And really as far as I know the fabric of space/time is a concept, we don't really know if it exists as a field or what that field is made up of.

 

This sort of supposition is fantasy. Experiments are done at a wide range of energy levels daily and have been done for centuries. Yet, nowhere is there this space-time tear.

Electrical transformers are everywhere from telephone poles to industrial lots and even inside of our homes and yet not one of these does a space-time tear. The magnets we give to children to play with are stronger than the fields of the Sun and Earth. Even stronger magnets are inside of MRI machines spread across the world. A 1 tesla field is common for these devices. There are coils inside of each car that generate fields constantly as they operate the car and yet no space-time tear. There are fields around every electric motor including fans, blenders, electric cars, wall clocks, and no space-time tears.

The strongest large fields are probably at CERN and despite all of the sensitive equipment there no instance of space-time tears detected.

Portals must conserve energy and momentum. These cannot be avoided. 

[stereologist]

The notion of portals is fueled by movies and TV shows. They make it seem simple to jump from place to place but these shows are not science based. Just like the shows that have someone shot being thrown back harshly and many feet through the air is bunk. Just like the shows where bullets penetrate deep into water is bunk. Just like the shows where bullets are stopped by car doors. Just like the authors that describe venous blood spreading dark across the floor.

None of this is correct. We shouldn't be misled by people showing us unrealistic baloney on TV and in movies or believing in mistakes written in books.

I don't mind the escapism seen in shows like Dr Who, Star Wars, or shoot 'em up Westerns. We just have to understand that these situations is not how the real world works.

[XenoFish]

The problem with teleportation. This would apply to portals as well.

[Orphalesion]

And the fun thing in Star Trek the "matter transporters" don't even work that way. They were made up for the 1960s version because filming landing sequences for the ship or shuttles would have been way too expensive.

By the 19 70s/80s a good chunk of the population (particularly the parts interested in SciFi) had become aware that any "realistic" teleporter would kill you and create a clone so the whole thing was handwaved by saying Trek transporters "only" rip you apart at the molecular level (while still keeping you alive, somehow) and then send those molecules at the speed of light to your destination. You are, supposedly, completely conscious during the whole process and can even move within the confines of the "transporter beam" (somehow, despite being ripped apart at the molecular level...) at one point two characters even have a conversation while being long-range transported and in another episode we see the transport happen from the POV of a character as well.

Of course, that doesn't even begin to make sense in real life, but the show needed an explanation that didn't include constantly killing and cloning their characters on-screen.

But I'm not sure how the problem with "realistic" tranporters would relate to the fantasy concept of portals. Wouldn't moving portals be the only the only way to have a form of teleportation that doesn't kill you? A character steps through a "moving portal" into another "world" and from that world through another "moving portal" back into ours, but at a different location? 

Kind of like Nightcrawler does with doing to that hell dimension and then back into ours?

 

 

[jaylemurph]

No wonder you left out the Cayce [redacted] the first few times. If you’ve been consuming that, no wonder you believe in all manner of hokum. It explains a lot. 

—Jaylemurph 

[WanderingFool0]

1 hour ago, Tuco's Gas said:

Nobody said that Germany didn't have good scientists. I said they didn't have flying saucers.

Without Werner Von Braun we prolly wouldn't have gotten to the Moon by 1969 and fulfilled JFKs plans.

Speaking of Nazi pharmaceuticals, are you familiar with Pervitin? If not look it up. The entire Blitzkrieg was fueled by amphetamines.

Oh I am well aware that not just the soldiers but a large part of the German population were using amphetamines available over the counter even before the Nazi's came to power. And some American housewives loved amphetamine pills that gave them energy and made them trim and fit, in the 50s, 60s and 70s.

[+Desertrat56]

28 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

And the fun thing in Star Trek the "matter transporters" don't even work that way. They were made up for the 1960s version because filming landing sequences for the ship or shuttles would have been way too expensive.

By the 19 70s/80s a good chunk of the population (particularly the parts interested in SciFi) had become aware that any "realistic" teleporter would kill you and create a clone so the whole thing was handwaved by saying Trek transporters "only" rip you apart at the molecular level (while still keeping you alive, somehow) and then send those molecules at the speed of light to your destination. You are, supposedly, completely conscious during the whole process and can even move within the confines of the "transporter beam" (somehow, despite being ripped apart at the molecular level...) at one point two characters even have a conversation while being long-range transported and in another episode we see the transport happen from the POV of a character as well.

Of course, that doesn't even begin to make sense in real life, but the show needed an explanation that didn't include constantly killing and cloning their characters on-screen.

But I'm not sure how the problem with "realistic" tranporters would relate to the fantasy concept of portals. Wouldn't moving portals be the only the only way to have a form of teleportation that doesn't kill you? A character steps through a "moving portal" into another "world" and from that world through another "moving portal" back into ours, but at a different location? 

Kind of like Nightcrawler does with doing to that hell dimension and then back into ours?

 

 

I like the beaming technology of the Asgard in the Stargate television series.  They also had Gould technology but it had to be in the confines of a ring system.

I have told my grandsons I want them to get engineering degrees so they have the ability to create a teleporter for me.  The oldest can build it, the youngest will do the math needed and the middle one will design it.