Has everyone asked God to reveal himself?

[freetoroam]

12 minutes ago, Crikey said:

I see the late Kirk Douglas had 60 million in the bank when he died, beats me why he didn't have fun giving it away while he was alive-

He had fun with the money he earned while alive, then decided to leave it to charities.

He did not peddle the word of god

 

Quote

 peddle the word of God 

How about the richest religious leaders  of the world who do peddle the word of god have fun by giving all the money to charities

 

 

 

[Crikey]

17 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I'm quite bemused. You'd think anyone serious about promoting their religion and the Bible, would have the sense to leave Hollywood and the film industry out of it.

I'm not trying to "promote" anything mate, but if I can give people a new perspective on things that's fine..

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Crikey

[Davros of Skaro]

On 2/24/2020 at 2:07 PM, WanderingFool0 said:

I remember, listening to Matthew Alper the author of "the God Part of the Brain", interviewed several times on Coast to Coast and listening to what had to say and why he thought the god part of the brain  existed and paraphrasing from memory; he thought it had evolved as a protection against or knowledge of our own mortality. I think that is possible, but every time I listened to him I always wondered if the god part of the brain is where our knowledge of our mortality arose in the first place and actually served both functions. Anyway he suggested it was a form of evolved protection at the least.

We evolved to seek pleasure (eating/reproducing), and avoid getting killed (tiger in the tall grass/neighbor after your stuff/natural disaster). Our increased cognition expanded what we find pleasurable, and what constitutes survival.

 

Theists are thought addicts via the Holy Dopamine Ghost (Dopamine Reward System). Imagine the euphoria experienced by the average person for believing they won a million dollars on a scratch off ticket (it could be a joke ticket yet as long as they believe). Now imagine someone having the same sensations, but being convinced it's a paranormal contact for believing John 3:16. Now chances are you can get a person holding the fake ticket to turn it over to see "Redeem at 123 Fake st, Fairyland, In Your Head". Yet religion deeply imprints reward for belief, and the believer has confirmation bias of rewards (also often times suffering is seen as evidence due to the influence of ancient cultures which religious texts derive from with lack of medical knowledge) with the ultimate prize after death.

Check out the science (along with some history) on why the proverbial carrot, string, and stick in our neurology can cause us to error in our thinking. Evolution has it's pitfalls for example believing non-evidence as evidence if we do not stop to think (emotional thinking is not quality thinking, but squashes rational thought). Hoarding, compulsive gambling, believing far out conspiracy theories, and drug addictions are related on a neurological level though certain dynamics are at play. We are all capable of confirmation biases, and compartmentalized thinking (holding & protecting a belief in the face of contradicting evidence).

The Holy Dopamine Ghost (Thoughts are addictive):

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQATeZAnm87BaJjBtM1vMIq_gHRmBq3ie

"Genetic and behavioral factors influencing religiously motivated behavior appear related to dopamine metabolism and signaling. Inclination toward religious behavior and motivation has been associated with a polymorphism on the dopamine receptor gene DRD4 (Comings, Gonzales, Saucier, Johnson, & MacMurray, 2000;Sasaki et al., 2013). Acquired disorders of dopamine physiology also show links to religious behaviors."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5478470/

"Religious and spiritual experiences activate the brain reward circuits in much the same way as love, sex, gambling, drugs and music, report researchers at theUniversity of Utah School of Medicine. The findings will be published Nov. 29 in the journalSocial Neuroscience."

https://unews.utah.edu/this-is-your-brain-on-god/

These neurological processes reinforce neural pathways (bridging literal gaps) in the brain in order to repeat thoughts, and behaviours like energy gathering (eating) along with specie perpetuation (sex). Going from drug addiction to Religion is just a placebo switcharoo of the power of the mind which is not a miracle. I heard from someone that went to Alcoholics Anonymous that a guy in AA did not want to worship a Higher Power (which is part of the program), and was told to worship an inanimate object. Supposedly the guy became clean, and sober by worshipping the radiator in his room (I wish stuff like this was documented). It was absurd to me at the time, but it makes sense now in relation to our evolution, and the function of the Dopamine Reward System (which both could not forsee the hazards of modern society).

Dopamine in varying levels is also related to creativity, patternicity, making nonsense make sense, and hallucinations (involuntary movements, tactile/feeling embraced, and speaking in tongues are also forms of hallucinations which can happen to all five senses). Also see "Dopamine Hypothesis". Note that the apostle Paul showed signs of schizophrenia (2 Cor. 12:9), the early church was encouraged to believe in order to be taught by the Spirit/HDG (Gal. 3:1-5 Note: Use Young's Literal translation for proper context in that the emotion derived from hearing about Jesus being crucified is considered the spirit. It's like hearing about when in Star Wars Darth Vader picks up, and throws the Emperor saving Luke the emotion stirred in you is a sign of the Force), and perform glossolalia/speaking in tongues (1 Cor. 12:4-11 Note: It was a potpourri of placebo effects, hallucinations to one, or more of the five senses, and complete ignorance of the power of the mind).

"Dopamine, adrenaline, and noradrenaline are neurotransmitters that belong to the catecholamine family. Dopamine is produced in the substantia nigra and ventral tegmental regions of the brain, and dopamine alterations are related to schizophrenia (1, 2). Dopaminergic projections are divided into the nigrostriatal, mesolimbic, and mesocortical systems. Impairments in the dopamine system result from dopamine dysfunctions in the substantia nigra, ventral tegmental region, striatum, prefrontal cortex, and hippocampus (3–5). The “original dopamine hypothesis” states that hyperactive dopamine transmission results in schizophrenic symptoms."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4032934/

"Dopamine In schizophrenia (SCZ), there is evidence that very high levels of dopamine in the limbic system play a major role in emergence of hallucinations and delusions. Antipsychotic medications, which block central dopamine activity, alleviate the hallucinations of psychosis. Drugs with strong dopaminergic effect, such as L-dopa, methylphenidate, bromocriptine, pramipexole and piribedil, may induce hallucinations. D-amphetamine, a direct dopamine agonist, may also induce psychosis and hallucinations."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2996210/

"Tibetan mystics have long practiced a method to create sentient beings from the power of concentrated thought." (Actually they just neurochemicaly imbalanced themselves to have waking dream hallucinations directed by subconscious prethoughts that look to be sentient.)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_ca/article/exmqzz/tulpamancy-internet-subculture-892

Mesolimbic System (instinctive ancient part of the brain) overrides the Frontal Cortex (rationalizing modern) building a cognitive wall.

Dopamine Enhances Optimism Bias

"Here, we show that administration of a drug that enhances dopaminergic function (dihydroxy-L-phenylalanine; L-DOPA) increases an optimism bias. This effect is due to L-DOPA impairing the ability to update belief in response to undesirable information about the future."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3424419/

Mark 3:28-29 says that the one unforgivable sin is rejecting, or being blasphemous to the *Holy Dopamine Ghost* which is funny since it's the conduit through which one accepts nonsense as gospel.

Yes, the Dark Ages Really Were a Thing

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/15567

That Christian Nation Nonsense (Gods Bless Our Pagan Nation)

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/3314

Dying-and-Rising Gods: It’s Pagan, Guys. Get Over It.

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13890

[WanderingFool0]

11 minutes ago, Davros of Skaro said:

We evolved to seek pleasure (eating/reproducing), and avoid getting killed (tiger in the tall grass/neighbor after your stuff/natural disaster). Our increased cognition expanded what we find pleasurable, and what constitutes survival.

 

Theists are thought addicts via the Holy Dopamine Ghost (Dopamine Reward System). Imagine the euphoria experienced by the average person for believing they won a million dollars on a scratch off ticket (it could be a joke ticket yet as long as they believe). Now imagine someone having the same sensations, but being convinced it's a paranormal contact for believing John 3:16. Now chances are you can get a person holding the fake ticket to turn it over to see "Redeem at 123 Fake st, Fairyland, In Your Head". Yet religion deeply imprints reward for belief, and the believer has confirmation bias of rewards (also often times suffering is seen as evidence due to the influence of ancient cultures which religious texts derive from with lack of medical knowledge) with the ultimate prize after death.

Check out the science (along with some history) on why the proverbial carrot, string, and stick in our neurology can cause us to error in our thinking. Evolution has it's pitfalls for example believing non-evidence as evidence if we do not stop to think (emotional thinking is not quality thinking, but squashes rational thought). Hoarding, compulsive gambling, believing far out conspiracy theories, and drug addictions are related on a neurological level though certain dynamics are at play. We are all capable of confirmation biases, and compartmentalized thinking (holding & protecting a belief in the face of contradicting evidence).

The Holy Dopamine Ghost (Thoughts are addictive):

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQATeZAnm87BaJjBtM1vMIq_gHRmBq3ie

"Genetic and behavioral factors influencing religiously motivated behavior appear related to dopamine metabolism and signaling. Inclination toward religious behavior and motivation has been associated with a polymorphism on the dopamine receptor gene DRD4 (Comings, Gonzales, Saucier, Johnson, & MacMurray, 2000;Sasaki et al., 2013). Acquired disorders of dopamine physiology also show links to religious behaviors."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5478470/

"Religious and spiritual experiences activate the brain reward circuits in much the same way as love, sex, gambling, drugs and music, report researchers at theUniversity of Utah School of Medicine. The findings will be published Nov. 29 in the journalSocial Neuroscience."

https://unews.utah.edu/this-is-your-brain-on-god/

These neurological processes reinforce neural pathways (bridging literal gaps) in the brain in order to repeat thoughts, and behaviours like energy gathering (eating) along with specie perpetuation (sex). Going from drug addiction to Religion is just a placebo switcharoo of the power of the mind which is not a miracle. I heard from someone that went to Alcoholics Anonymous that a guy in AA did not want to worship a Higher Power (which is part of the program), and was told to worship an inanimate object. Supposedly the guy became clean, and sober by worshipping the radiator in his room (I wish stuff like this was documented). It was absurd to me at the time, but it makes sense now in relation to our evolution, and the function of the Dopamine Reward System (which both could not forsee the hazards of modern society).

Dopamine in varying levels is also related to creativity, patternicity, making nonsense make sense, and hallucinations (involuntary movements, tactile/feeling embraced, and speaking in tongues are also forms of hallucinations which can happen to all five senses). Also see "Dopamine Hypothesis". Note that the apostle Paul showed signs of schizophrenia (2 Cor. 12:9), the early church was encouraged to believe in order to be taught by the Spirit/HDG (Gal. 3:1-5 Note: Use Young's Literal translation for proper context in that the emotion derived from hearing about Jesus being crucified is considered the spirit. It's like hearing about when in Star Wars Darth Vader picks up, and throws the Emperor saving Luke the emotion stirred in you is a sign of the Force), and perform glossolalia/speaking in tongues (1 Cor. 12:4-11 Note: It was a potpourri of placebo effects, hallucinations to one, or more of the five senses, and complete ignorance of the power of the mind).

"Dopamine, adrenaline, and noradrenaline are neurotransmitters that belong to the catecholamine family. Dopamine is produced in the substantia nigra and ventral tegmental regions of the brain, and dopamine alterations are related to schizophrenia (1, 2). Dopaminergic projections are divided into the nigrostriatal, mesolimbic, and mesocortical systems. Impairments in the dopamine system result from dopamine dysfunctions in the substantia nigra, ventral tegmental region, striatum, prefrontal cortex, and hippocampus (3–5). The “original dopamine hypothesis” states that hyperactive dopamine transmission results in schizophrenic symptoms."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4032934/

"Dopamine In schizophrenia (SCZ), there is evidence that very high levels of dopamine in the limbic system play a major role in emergence of hallucinations and delusions. Antipsychotic medications, which block central dopamine activity, alleviate the hallucinations of psychosis. Drugs with strong dopaminergic effect, such as L-dopa, methylphenidate, bromocriptine, pramipexole and piribedil, may induce hallucinations. D-amphetamine, a direct dopamine agonist, may also induce psychosis and hallucinations."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2996210/

"Tibetan mystics have long practiced a method to create sentient beings from the power of concentrated thought." (Actually they just neurochemicaly imbalanced themselves to have waking dream hallucinations directed by subconscious prethoughts that look to be sentient.)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_ca/article/exmqzz/tulpamancy-internet-subculture-892

Mesolimbic System (instinctive ancient part of the brain) overrides the Frontal Cortex (rationalizing modern) building a cognitive wall.

Dopamine Enhances Optimism Bias

"Here, we show that administration of a drug that enhances dopaminergic function (dihydroxy-L-phenylalanine; L-DOPA) increases an optimism bias. This effect is due to L-DOPA impairing the ability to update belief in response to undesirable information about the future."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3424419/

Mark 3:28-29 says that the one unforgivable sin is rejecting, or being blasphemous to the *Holy Dopamine Ghost* which is funny since it's the conduit through which one accepts nonsense as gospel.

Yes, the Dark Ages Really Were a Thing

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/15567

That Christian Nation Nonsense (Gods Bless Our Pagan Nation)

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/3314

Dying-and-Rising Gods: It’s Pagan, Guys. Get Over It.

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13890

Thanks for the info and food for thought. The dopampine angle is an interesting take. The only thing I would say is that, everyone is a dopamine junkie, since it is one of the primary rewards for almost all activities.

Edited February 26, 2020 by WanderingFool0
correction

[Crikey]

10 minutes ago, Davros of Skaro said:

"Religious and spiritual experiences activate the brain reward circuits.."
https://unews.utah.edu/this-is-your-brain-on-god/

 

Dunno bout that mate, I simply like Jesus as a great anti-establishment rebel leader and role model, but if you know anybody better please let us know..

High Priest- "Jesus of Nazareth, alias the Christ, the Messiah and the Son of God, you stand accused of upsetting us real bad, how do you plead?"

Jesus- "Get out of my face Charlie"

Edited February 26, 2020 by Crikey

[lightly]

I like the concepts of Hinduism ...it's simple. Everything is a part of and/or manifestation of "God" , Brahma..

...and the physical realm is like the icing on the cake.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Crikey said:

I'm not trying to "promote" anything mate, but if I can give people a new perspective on things that's fine..

 

You give them nothing, for you have nothing, nor is there anything that is yours to give. All you have is the arrogance of the self-righteous, preening yourself over your sanctimonious self-perception of being "holy". Do you think God does not know his own? Do you really think someone is less of a sinner because they mouth holy words? Do you think someone is less than you because they do not believe in God, accept God and know his purpose and their own purpose? No one knows God while living. God is a mystery to the sons and daughters of man. These are not holy words, but the words of one humbled by life and what he feels in his heart. At the end of life, when one's flesh teeters on the precipice of death, that which we call "God" is revealed to us and it is then and only then that we truly know. Then our souls are enfolded and embraced and carried into eternity. There is no Hell, no Judgment, no Condemnation. What Heaven there is, is of our own conceptualization. No one is left behind.

[lightly]

Wow Hammerclaw !    maybe not "holy words". .  powerful though!   .   

[Crikey]

22 minutes ago, lightly said:

I like the concepts of Hinduism ...it's simple. Everything is a part of and/or manifestation of "God" , Brahma..

 

Hmm..call me picky but I don't think I like Hinduism much..

 

[lightly]

Agreed it has it's horrible ideas too.   But ,that's people for ya huh?   We tend to mess things up, given enough time.   I believe the oldest known writings of Hinduism are some 4000 years old...       ..some of the most basic beliefs are much older.

still I like the bright side of Hinduism.. Ideas like god inhaling and exhaling Universes. 

[+Hammerclaw]

6 minutes ago, lightly said:

still I like the bright side of Hinduism.. Ideas like god inhaling and exhaling Universes. 

"God" is where you find him, in a rock, a tree, a blade of grass and sometimes, just sometimes, in one's own heart when one looks within.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Hammerclaw

[Davros of Skaro]

35 minutes ago, WanderingFool0 said:

Thanks for the info and food for thought. The dopampine angle is an interesting take.

I'm just showing a simple way of explaining a complex process.

Quote

The only thing I would say is that, everyone is a dopamine junkie, since it is one of the primary rewards for almost all activities.

I say that too. Check the info I provided.

35 minutes ago, Crikey said:

Dunno bout that mate, I simply like Jesus as a great anti-establishment rebel leader and role model, but if you know anybody better please let us know..

Your mind will not let you know what I know. Your mind will not let me explain to you what below most likely means.

Galatians 4:4

"4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born (come) of a woman, born (come) under the law,"

Baruch 3:37, 4:1-4

"37 Afterward she appeared on earth  and lived with humankind."

"1 She is the book of the commandments of God,  the law that endures forever. 
 All who hold her fast will live,  and those who forsake her will die. 
2 Turn, O Jacob, and take her; 
 walk toward the shining of her light. 
3 Do not give your glory to another,  or your advantages to an alien people. 
4 Happy are we, O Israel,  for we know what is pleasing to God."

 

[WanderingFool0]

46 minutes ago, Crikey said:

 

Hmm..call me picky but I don't think I like Hinduism much..

 

Well, much like you say that greedy pastors don't represent true Christianity, one could argue that the caste system implemented and enforced by the Brahman is not a true representation of the philosophy of Hinduism.

Edited February 26, 2020 by WanderingFool0
correction

[XenoFish]

It would be interesting if God was some type of Lovecraftian horror. 

[+Liquid Gardens]

2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Nevertheless, Kirk Douglas was a good man, a good Jew and left his fortune to charity. God will be his judge.

The judging should be the other way around:  Spartacus > Jesus. 

[WanderingFool0]

9 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

It would be interesting if God was some type of Lovecraftian horror. 

It would be interesting times indeed. A Lovecraftian apocalypse would be a madness inducing terror for unbeliever; Atheist, and believer; Theist, alike. After all in all of Lovecraft's stories when the half breed offspring of the old ones gather, perform their rites and begin to weaken the bars on the gate to the outside and those gods draw near, the laws of physics and realty begin to melt and run in ways contrary to the way mankind believes it should.

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, WanderingFool0 said:

It would be interesting times indeed. A Lovecraftian apocalypse would be a madness inducing terror for unbeliever; Atheist, and believer; Theist, alike. After all in all of Lovecraft's stories when the half breed offspring of the old ones gather, perform their rites and begin to weaken the bars on the gate to the outside and those gods draw near, the laws of physics and realty begin to melt and run in ways contrary to the way mankind believes it should.

The old ones care not for us. If you think about it. Why would a thing that is capable of creating an entire universe care? I think god is just a form of the human ego. 

[WanderingFool0]

4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

The old ones care not for us. If you think about it. Why would a thing that is capable of creating an entire universe care? I think god is just a form of the human ego. 

Well being on the believer side of course I would say, that agree in a sense. God may be a form of the human ego, but I think all humans might also be the many egos of god.

Edited February 26, 2020 by WanderingFool0
correction

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, WanderingFool0 said:

Well being on the believer side of course I would say, that agree in a sense. God may be a form of the human ego, but I think all humans might be the many egos of god.

I don't think god is anything other than an idea. 

[WanderingFool0]

Just now, XenoFish said:

I don't think god is anything other than an idea. 

That's great

[spartan max2]

4 hours ago, Crikey said:

Why blame God? Jesus said- "Satan has bound this crippled woman for 18 years", then he cured her..

Epicurus' trilemma

"If God is unable to prevent evil, then he is not all-powerful.

If God is not willing to prevent evil, then he is not all-good."

[+Sherapy]

8 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

A thousand may quote the same verse from the Bible, giving it a thousand different interpretations. The one will say to the other: This is how it should be read! All is vanity.

1 Corinthians 15:51-58 ⁵¹Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed- ⁵²in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. ⁵³For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. ⁵⁴When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." ⁵⁵"Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?" ⁵⁶The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. ⁵⁷But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our LORD Jesus Christ. ⁵⁸Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the LORD, because you know that your labor in the LORD is not in vain.

It is indicative of one who is here to preach and proselytize their own arrogance as opposed to engaging in respectful quality discussions.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

43 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

The old ones care not for us. If you think about it. Why would a thing that is capable of creating an entire universe care? I think god is just a form of the human ego. 

What do you mean by god is a form of human ego? Genuinely curious in your perspective. 

[XenoFish]

9 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

What do you mean by god is a form of human ego? Genuinely curious in your perspective. 

As an exalted idea of self. All powerful, all knowing, immortal. Free to do whatever it wishes, both kind and cruel. A power fantasy of sorts.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

4 hours ago, Crikey said:

9 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

So, deal with my lack of religious upbringing. I did great in it.   

Yeah but do you simply LIKE Jesus? If you do, you've got a good chance of going to that big party in the sky when you die, he sounds okay to me..

Well, that question came from left field! 

I’ll tell you again, but slowly. Lack * of * religious * upbringing!! What you’re asking is a non-issue. What does it matter to you, if I like someone who I don’t believe existed like you think he did? 
There’s is also a good chance he doesn’t exist. 
Are you actually having a hard time with my upbringing?? Seriously!!

Quote

Jesus to stone-throwing mob- "ON YER BIKES, she's with me..Hold your head up baby"

Her- "Thanks JC let's go back to my place and I'll do us a fry-up"

You really want me to take you seriously?!?!