Mr Walker Posted March 31, 2020 #1401 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sherapy said: I find anger to be constructive and appropriate at times when boundaries are needed. I had an appropriate fear towards covid-19, it motivated me to do a few things get educated and apply the knowledge. I have been grief stricken over things in my life and I worked through them and became more resilient for it. I am not afraid of my emotions, it is the repressing of them that creates the fear and anxiety. You offer an outdated archaic 50’s don’t feel, and god forbid don’t get angry instead hold it in and have heart disease or a stroke, and make sure to settle for loveless commitments and no affection or romance. Yikes, not for me, not now, not ever, you are right I have invested in and created the life I want and it is full of emotions positive and negative. All the best. Intellectual caution is useful, emotional/physical fear is not Assertiveness is productive. Anger is not. it reduces your abilty to think and act clearly and logically and thus reduces your chances of survival or success. How many times do i have to explain this? I dont repress anger or hold it in. Anger is a construct. I just choose NOT to construct it. We all have a choice whether to feel angry or not at anything. There IS no anger either physiologically or emotionally and thus no need to repress it. There is no fear either physiologically or emotionally and thus no repression of fear You have been trapped in an ancient belief that anger and fear are natural, unavoidable, and productive (or at least necessary) The y are NONE of those things The y are outdated remnants of our primate biology and we have the power to remove them from our mind completely or choose when to construct them if it useful . Ps when you need a display of anger to set a boundary , fake it. That way there is no danger of it getting out of control, because you are incontrol of it all the time. I can "do" anger effectively and convincingly. I can appear very angry on the outside while chuckling merrily at the absurdity of a situation on the inside. And sherapy, one more thing I have almost certainly experienced more love, and even romance, in my life than you ever will. I was loved by many from my birth ive been loved by and loved many through my life and i have had all the romance a man can handle (not the namby pamby romance of the emotions as in Mills and Boon But the real romance of true love, commitment, and a life together with the one you love more than life itself. ) Edited March 31, 2020 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted March 31, 2020 #1402 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr Walker said: Not me. That is evolutionary biologists psychologists and neurocognitive scientists speaking I am just paraphrasing the material the y write Humans are the only animal with enough self awareness to know and understand abstract things like death, inevitability, pain and suffering, as THOUGHTS. we KNOW we will suffer death, and probably pain, in our life. We know that those we love will die, sooner or later, gently, or fighting to survive , Our selff awareness gives us incredible strengths and potentials but also makes us very vulnerable, thus we evolved cognitive responses such as faith, belief, religion and other psychological mechanisms to cope. That doesn't make us weak. it makes us resilient, and quite tough, in most cases. quote from Lazarus Long, one of my great fictional heroes “A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyse a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” The only ones i havent done of these are to butcher a hog (but i have done this for sheep) program a computer, and set a bone. When my time comes i hope i can die gallantly We have this adaptive abilty due to our self aware consciousness, but this requires other mechanisms if the awareness is not to overwhelm us Evolution gave us those mechanisms No other animal requires a psychological adaptation to allow it to sleep soundly at night We have them, and use them without even being aware of it Yes you. Why do you think you can provide links? Why do you think everyone disagrees with your interpretations? You find any excuse you can to push faith as an enhancement instead of a crutch. You don't seem to realise yourself going by your post how much of your posting is directed toward promotion of faith. Your obsessed with the idea of people needing faith. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted March 31, 2020 #1403 Share Posted March 31, 2020 4 hours ago, Sherapy said: I wonder if it is a projection. The more I read, the more I suspect that is the case. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight bits Posted March 31, 2020 #1404 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr Walker said: How many times do i have to explain this? Until you've convinced yourself, and aren't so transparently terrified by your eventual inevitable natural end. 3 hours ago, Sherapy said: I wonder if it is a projection. Incessant yammering about "your" fear of death, combined with boasting about how he's free of any such frailty. "You" being somebody he's never met, but this is one thing about "you" he knows. What he knows is his own terror, and his own failure to come to terms with his situation. 1 hour ago, Mr Walker said: But we need to use the evolved qualities nature gave us, Life span is an evolved quality. That all die and some are replaced is evolution. 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 31, 2020 #1405 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, eight bits said: Until you've convinced yourself, and aren't so transparently terrified by your eventual inevitable natural end. Incessant yammering about "your" fear of death, combined with boasting about how he's free of any such frailty. "You" being somebody he's never met, but this is one thing about "you" he knows. What he knows is his own terror, and his own failure to come to terms with his situation. Life span is an evolved quality. That all die and some are replaced is evolution. Nup you are the one projecting your world view onto me I have no fear of death or anything but that is because i modified my emotional responses while a child/ teenager and learned how to deconstruct and reconstruct "emotional responses. It was a childs psychological response to a desire to have total control over my thoughts and behaviours so that in never harmed another person My parents had that sort of control (in 80 years I never saw either of them lose their temper, verbally or physically abuse anyone or lose control of their behaviors and so i set that as a goal for myself I am speaking from a psychologists perspective and also from cognitive science What i say is well known and today you can go online to learn the methods I taught myself 60 years ago, beginning with simple mindfulness . I don't understand why you see me as you do.Its untrue and goes to your own perspective on life and death not my own. But its wider than that Fear is nor "real" nor is suffering. The y are human constructs of the mind and only exist because we can consciously construct them. That means we can deconstruct and eliminate them The simplest example of this is a phobia or irrational fear We construct that fear and today professionals can successfully teach you how to eliminate that phobia completely Humans have a huge range of evolved qualities Mosts of us use most of them but often only minimally or marginally And that is ok if you dont need them. But they are all useful, empowering, liberating, and handy to have. It is like the abilty to think logically/rationally. Every functioning human mind has that abilty but some use it very little, while others become very good at it This makes a big difference in outcomes /quality of life , and success for those individuals Learning to manage emotional responses is an equally powerful abilty . We all use it to a limited extent, but most barely scratch the surface . Ps i have come close to death many times, sometimes unexpectedly with no time to prepare or think, sometimes with a long wait for a risky operation Ive never felt fear, although I often ask a lot of questions to better understand the risks involved. Yes we all die but with luck we will have 8 or more decades of living These things go to quality of life and outcomes for living more than a concern about death Control your emotions and behaviours and you will have a better life with less conflict, legal problems, and better relationships with others You will enjoy greater success in work and more pleasure in your life. Edited March 31, 2020 by Mr Walker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight bits Posted March 31, 2020 #1406 Share Posted March 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: Nup you are the one projecting your world view onto me Recognizing that you are projecting your terror of death onto the rest of us is not an accusation. You needn't revert to the schoolyard playground, "I know you are, but what am I?" Those were good days, though, weren't they? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 31, 2020 #1407 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Just now, eight bits said: Recognizing that you are projecting your terror of death onto the rest of us is not an accusation. You needn't revert to the schoolyard playground, "I know you are, but what am I?" Those were good days, though, weren't they? Your recognition is wrong. I have no fear of death ( let alone a terror) nor fear of anything . There is nothing in this world to fear, unless we construct a fear of it. Fear is NOT inevitable nor natural. It has to be learned I see death as exactly the same as my existence before birth, so nothing to be afraid of. It is only while we are alive that we construct fears of death and other things Thus, how can i project it onto anyone, if i don't possess it ? I am pointing out that humans have these fears because of their high level of self aware consciousness, but have also evolved a number of tools with which to correct the cause of fear. Because you are so wrong about me, it is likely that your belief comes from a projection of your own inner world view, including your fears/ coping mechanisms etc.You believe fear is inevitable and perhaps natural, and so, in turn you think i must be somehow allieviating my fears by projecting them Nup No fear to begin with so none to project. If you were NOT doing this, you would recognise the truth in what ive said about myself, rather than see me only through what you feel and believe Its possible that you dont have any fears But Sherapy has said tha t she generates fear and anger and feels both are natural and beneficial . 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted March 31, 2020 #1408 Share Posted March 31, 2020 6 hours ago, Mr Walker said: That is evolutionary biologists psychologists and neurocognitive scientists speaking I am just paraphrasing the material the y write Paraphrasing, or embellishing and distorting? Where did "neurocognitive" scientists and psychologists indicate that without faith one would commit suicide or wither away and die? What studies back this up? 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted March 31, 2020 #1409 Share Posted March 31, 2020 How many projectionists does it take to change a perfectionistic bulb on the projectorial wall lamp missing a shade ... ~ 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted March 31, 2020 #1410 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) I directly interact with my minds version of God anytime I want, and yes all I have to do is ask and surrender. Though, I’m in an altered state of consciousness. After sometime, I know it is always there, so I don’t really need to go through the process of putting myself in that space very often. In the past, my very first interactions were through not asking God to show itself, but through giving myself over to it and asking it to guide my actions. And while I feel like that was happening, I was also doing a lot of meditation on compassion, and this causes you to act upon compassionate impulses, so I found myself in all kinds of things. Practicality tells me my compassionate focus was putting in me in all of these strange situations, but I really felt like I was constantly being handed assignments. Sometimes the visions would come before I made the choice to help though. After about a decade, somebody took notice, and the city I lived in ended up giving me a public accommodation. (Kind of a keys to the city type thing.) When I meet with the great spirit, There are two things that are notable. It’s not like having a chat with Morgan Freedman. It’s more like meeting with the ocean itself. In fact, that is the very images I witness. It’s like meeting with a conscious ocean. When you ask it relevant questions, it doesn't just answer. You already know the answer when you ask it. You just realize it by then end of the thought. The thing I have discovered about the great spirit’s love though, is that it is nowhere near authoritarian. It reminds me very much of a dog’s love. God seems legitimately happy that I have even noticed it. On a few occasions, some I have written about right here on UM, it seems like it wants to follow me around and I have to tell it to shew because I have to be at least a Little normal. God doesn't mind though. It’s just happy to see me the next time. There are a lot of things I could talk about with this, but. Yes I have asked for God to be in my life, and it is. It is just in ways that I don’t think most people are capable of either understanding or in others respecting. Edited March 31, 2020 by White Crane Feather 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted March 31, 2020 #1411 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Mr Walker said: Nup you are the one projecting your world view onto me I have no fear of death or anything but that is because i modified my emotional responses while a child/ teenager and learned how to deconstruct and reconstruct "emotional responses. It was a childs psychological response to a desire to have total control over my thoughts and behaviours so that in never harmed another person My parents had that sort of control (in 80 years I never saw either of them lose their temper, verbally or physically abuse anyone or lose control of their behaviors and so i set that as a goal for myself I am speaking from a psychologists perspective and also from cognitive science What i say is well known and today you can go online to learn the methods I taught myself 60 years ago, beginning with simple mindfulness . I don't understand why you see me as you do.Its untrue and goes to your own perspective on life and death not my own. But its wider than that Fear is nor "real" nor is suffering. The y are human constructs of the mind and only exist because we can consciously construct them. That means we can deconstruct and eliminate them The simplest example of this is a phobia or irrational fear We construct that fear and today professionals can successfully teach you how to eliminate that phobia completely Humans have a huge range of evolved qualities Mosts of us use most of them but often only minimally or marginally And that is ok if you dont need them. But they are all useful, empowering, liberating, and handy to have. It is like the abilty to think logically/rationally. Every functioning human mind has that abilty but some use it very little, while others become very good at it This makes a big difference in outcomes /quality of life , and success for those individuals Learning to manage emotional responses is an equally powerful abilty . We all use it to a limited extent, but most barely scratch the surface . Ps i have come close to death many times, sometimes unexpectedly with no time to prepare or think, sometimes with a long wait for a risky operation Ive never felt fear, although I often ask a lot of questions to better understand the risks involved. Yes we all die but with luck we will have 8 or more decades of living These things go to quality of life and outcomes for living more than a concern about death Control your emotions and behaviours and you will have a better life with less conflict, legal problems, and better relationships with others You will enjoy greater success in work and more pleasure in your life. Something you said years ago to someone I have repeated to others quite often in my own version. It was particularly useful when I have encountered suicidal or pre suicidal people that come to me. It’s odd the perspective change that some people who are suicidal go through when they finally understand that there is plenty of time to be dead latter. It’s not always that simple to explain, but it did come from you, and it does help. Edited March 31, 2020 by White Crane Feather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted March 31, 2020 #1412 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Mr Walker said: Intellectual caution is useful, emotional/physical fear is not Assertiveness is productive. Anger is not. it reduces your abilty to think and act clearly and logically and thus reduces your chances of survival or success. How many times do i have to explain this? I dont repress anger or hold it in. Anger is a construct. I just choose NOT to construct it. We all have a choice whether to feel angry or not at anything. There IS no anger either physiologically or emotionally and thus no need to repress it. There is no fear either physiologically or emotionally and thus no repression of fear You have been trapped in an ancient belief that anger and fear are natural, unavoidable, and productive (or at least necessary) The y are NONE of those things The y are outdated remnants of our primate biology and we have the power to remove them from our mind completely or choose when to construct them if it useful . Ps when you need a display of anger to set a boundary , fake it. That way there is no danger of it getting out of control, because you are incontrol of it all the time. I can "do" anger effectively and convincingly. I can appear very angry on the outside while chuckling merrily at the absurdity of a situation on the inside. And sherapy, one more thing I have almost certainly experienced more love, and even romance, in my life than you ever will. I was loved by many from my birth ive been loved by and loved many through my life and i have had all the romance a man can handle (not the namby pamby romance of the emotions as in Mills and Boon But the real romance of true love, commitment, and a life together with the one you love more than life itself. ) “And sherapy, one more thing I have almost certainly experienced more love, and even romance, in my life than you ever will. I was loved by many from my birth ive been loved by and loved many through my life and i have had all the romance a man can handle (not the namby pamby romance of the emotions as in Mills and Boon But the real romance of true love, commitment, and a life together with the one you love more than life itself” ( Walker). Wally this quote is anger and lashing out because of anger. Anger is a natural emotion. The big difference is I admit to my humanness you don’t. Your emotions are a part of you.The rest of this post is talking out your backside it is Walkerism it isn’t based on any legitimate current psychology or cognitive behavioral therapy. IMHO, You come from the time when a successful marriage is defined by commitment and sticking it out for better or worse in sickness and health, so help you god. This is what you call love. It works for you and all the best for you. I come from the time where two people create an “us” based on passion, love, attraction, friendship, open communication, and, being their for each other, accepting the other for their humanness this “us” honors, respects and makes sure the needs of each other are met, including emotional and we call it a loving relationship. We show each other we love each other it is measured in the way we treat each other and behave towards each other, not in the time served. I just have to ask what is namby pamby emotions? God help me. Edited March 31, 2020 by Sherapy 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted March 31, 2020 #1413 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Why are any of you bothering to feed his ego and desire for attention? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted March 31, 2020 #1414 Share Posted March 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, White Crane Feather said: Something you said years ago to someone I have repeated to others quite often in my own version. It was particularly useful when I have encountered suicidal or pre suicidal people that come to me. It’s odd the perspective change that some people who are suicidal go through when they finally understand that there is plenty of time to be dead latter. It’s not always that simple to explain, but it did come from you, and it does help. Realizing that ending your own life when you're going to die anyway, makes suicide meaningless. No point in doing it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted March 31, 2020 #1415 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Mr Walker said: Nup. I don't see humans as weak. I see as us strong and resilient But we need to use the evolved qualities nature gave us, to be our best, to be the strongest we can be, and to not just survive but live long and prosper. I see faith, belief and religion as strengths and additions evolved to overcome the effects of our slef awareness (which gives us many of our strengths, but also most of our fears and anxieties ) They are like our abilty to think logically, and use different forms of intellect to analyse, and problem solve. ? Edited March 31, 2020 by Sherapy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted March 31, 2020 #1416 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, White Crane Feather said: Something you said years ago to someone I have repeated to others quite often in my own version. It was particularly useful when I have encountered suicidal or pre suicidal people that come to me. It’s odd the perspective change that some people who are suicidal go through when they finally understand that there is plenty of time to be dead latter. It’s not always that simple to explain, but it did come from you, and it does help. Well this is certainly one way to look at things, but so is getting help and often the resistance to getting help is lack of means. I have found it useful and effective to offer to pay for the therapy and psychiatrist, or offer the resources to self educate and self advocate. Edited March 31, 2020 by Sherapy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted March 31, 2020 #1417 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Oh okay... Quote [00.02:20] ~ 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted March 31, 2020 #1418 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Sherapy said: Well this is certainly one way to look at things, but so is getting help and often the resistance to getting help is lack of means. I have found it useful and effective to offer to pay for the therapy and psychiatrist, or offer the resources to self educate and self advocate. Indeed. So have I. Sometimes just exercising with someone to help them boost their happy chems is a great way to show that you care and affect their neural chemistry at the same time. When I do encounter someone with a lot of depression, I always ask them if they would join me for some jogging. I happen to have an unusual perspective on how states of consciousness affect personal narratives, so getting people to talk while the endorphins kick in is a great way to help them change perspective. Then last year I became aware of the MAPS program that is having amazing results treating PTSD. I always recommend (gently) professional help. A good councilor and doc can make a huge difference. I’d put the caveat that there are a ton of people really bad at it and severely over medicate as well. I have a hard time trusting psychiatrists. Counselors I’m good with, and true psychologists are better. But the use of diagnostic flow charts and treating symptoms with chemicals from a single visit seems irresponsible to me unless someone is in immediate danger. I have worked with thousands of people, and I have seen these situations up close. There is a lot of harm done as-well. My academic focus was economics and econometrics. There is a lot wrong with the way some people use data to sell drugs. While I’m no doctor, sometimes doctors are not good at data either, and just do what they are told to do via other sources that may or may not be acting economically. Edited March 31, 2020 by White Crane Feather 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted March 31, 2020 #1419 Share Posted March 31, 2020 44 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Realizing that ending your own life when you're going to die anyway, makes suicide meaningless. No point in doing it. Unless it's life that is the problem. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted March 31, 2020 #1420 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Rlyeh said: Unless it's life that is the problem. The human mind is very finicky this way. It’s like looking at those pictures where you see an old woman then you change your perspective and then you see a beautiful one. The trick is to find a way to change perspective. Of course those with severe pain and illness, it can be a lot harder to change perspectives. The depression that brings people to suicide is complicated. Some of it’s neural chemical, some of its situational, some of it seems sort of random. It’s all related though. Situations affect Neural Chemistry and then neural chemistry affects situations. When I used to get blasted drunk, the next day during a hangover, I would have some dark dark thoughts. It felt like nothing could ever be good, then the next day, I’d be hydrated and get a workout in and the future seemed like an endless playground. It was hard to reconcile that the day before life seemed hopelessly painful. I learned quickly that alcoholism would destroy me and turn life into hell. Thought patterns, chemistry, and perspective allowed me to mostly evolve out of that. Edited March 31, 2020 by White Crane Feather 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted March 31, 2020 #1421 Share Posted March 31, 2020 I was thinking about invoking Judy Garland but I believe God whispered "no" At least I think it was God, she sounded real mad... ~ 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Desertrat56 Posted March 31, 2020 #1422 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, third_eye said: I was thinking about invoking Judy Garland but I believe God whispered "no" At least I think it was God, she sounded real mad... ~ It was probably Judy herself. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted March 31, 2020 #1423 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said: It was probably Judy herself. God herself, no less... ~ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted March 31, 2020 #1424 Share Posted March 31, 2020 2 hours ago, XenoFish said: Realizing that ending your own life when you're going to die anyway, makes suicide meaningless. No point in doing it. There is a lot of logic in realizing (if it’s true) that you have been dead for an eternity before and will be dead for an eternity afterward, so you might as well continue not being dead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted March 31, 2020 #1425 Share Posted March 31, 2020 19 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Realizing that ending your own life when you're going to die anyway, makes suicide meaningless. No point in doing it. In my experience, in situations that the person was truly suicidal, sometimes after a major brain trauma so I would always suggest professional help over any advice from someone online. But, this is just me, my two cents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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