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spartan max2

Has everyone asked God to reveal himself?

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spartan max2
4 hours ago, Crikey said:

Good for you mate, I'm 71 too, we belong to the "rock legend" generation..:D

And I do lighting techniques too (in a sense) as I'm a moderator over at the 'Mission 4 Today' forum (screenname 'PoorOldSpike) where my computer-enhanced photo galleries have had 8 million views so far. I also write strategy and tactics articles in various forums and mercilessly win online wargaming leagues against people half my age because my motto is-

 

 

 

I hope I'll still be able to crush some noobs when I'm 71 :devil: lol.

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Crikey
31 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Why does he say only God knows but also then indicates that he also knows (even though he was wrong): "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

He meant the establishment of God's kingdom on earth (Christianity) which they all saw..:D

Edited by Crikey

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Sherapy
51 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

From whose perspective that it’s known that the whole of Israel saw and heard Jesus? (And they were possibly were hallucinating. You realize what the environment can do to people?!) From what source, did the knowledge of the whole of Israel saw this? 

So, here’s the clicker here. I didn’t know. I know of plenty through out my life, who didn’t know. Wouldn’t it be known, if it’s so knowledgeable? 

Plus, with media a big thing today, do we know what the whole of Israel saw today? 

Yeah, I think you have a hard time digesting I never had any religious upbringing. :no:  

Could still pick up?!?! Why would I? Are you using that form of thought as proof? Could have?! And, I said, while I was raised. Meaning, though out my childhood. I was a kid, so there were a good reason, I couldn’t have. My parents didn’t, so that is probably what you need to realize here. I don’t think, you’re assuming a child, ‘could have bought a book about Jesus’ as something that could happen. 

Granted, as an adult, I had more freedom, and I have my own New Age beliefs, but because of my upbringing, I was already ingrained to not see or think of the usual orthodox being a part of everyday life or belief. 

So, you’re wasting your time telling me to remember something, there was a logical reason for me to not remember. It was never there. 

Even though, Jesus and what ever (in very small tidbits) was brought up (by others), it was not ever in scripture or lectures, and never a discussion point in my home. My parents never brought it up. And there were many families, who had their traditions and such, not just Christianity. So, it was left up to them, and not discussed in my home. 

I also heard of Santa Claus, Easter bunny, Jewish traditions, Native American traditions more so, and other things. But, logically, my family was busy in being more so living day to day in things like, going to school, going to work, vacations, skiing................... Oh yeah, there was a strong influence in my home. 

That was necessary. 

Skiing! 

Snow, that was to be worshipped. And the snow, was the miracle. 

Ok, New England had it’s share.....................*shrugs*

So, deal with my lack of religious upbringing. I did great in it. :yes:  

My husband Sean had a similar upbringing, never heard of one single bible story. His parents left beliefs up to them. 
 

My husband has no interest at all in anything biblical, not even for the sake of curiosity. 

Edited by Sherapy
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Desertrat56
13 hours ago, Scudbuster said:

Could be, but I hope it isn't too late...!  I'm 71, and currently studying some advanced photographic lighting techniques plus learning how to trade options in the stock market...!  I hope I can keep a few brain cells a-firing :tsu:

Yes, I am a few years behind you and was in a bad mood yesterday.  Everyone can learn something as long as they are willing and breathing.

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Desertrat56
10 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

So just because some ignorant, power hungry men, turned this beautiful message of Christs, into a illogical mess, you are going to turn away from God?

Where's the sense in that?

That meme did not say one thing about turning from god.  Why are you so sensitive?  If you are strong in your faith and belief then you have nothing to worry about when people don't agree with you. 

Edited by Desertrat56
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Liquid Gardens
18 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

A thousand may quote the same verse from the Bible, giving it a thousand different interpretations. The one will say to the other: This is how it should be read! All is vanity.

Absolutely agreed, which just bolsters my point that it is inconsistent.  Since I'd argue that it's not just a general 'thousand' (your point is equally true if we state 'a thousand believers') then I'd argue this observed inconsistency isn't just a mere 'interpretation', it's an interpretation with a lot of fairly clear evidence to support it.  I don't have to argue that a verse must be read a certain way, it's supposedly foolishness to non-believers after all, just noting that believers themselves don't agree seems sufficient to demonstrate its lack of clarity and consistency.

I've been thinking recently about something @eight bits referred to which I hadn't thought of at this level as it's somewhat subtle:  there seems to be a default tendency to assume that these accounts should harmonize with each other even though that assumption is not in evidence.  For example with the verse I just mentioned, a plain reading, supported I believe by some other things Jesus said, seems to indicate that Jesus thought 'the world' was ending soon. I had actually considered starting a short thread concerning the other viewpoint, asking for where Jesus implied that the world would continue on for millennia but kinda thought I found one on my own: Jesus making Peter 'the rock' as the head of his church.  Sure it's possible he just meant for the next ~50 years tops until he arrived again, but I think it's also fair to assume he may have been indicating a longer future there too.  If I'm understanding eight's point, there isn't really much justification for saying, 'well he implied he's going to have a long-lived church here so he must not have meant that the world will end before people he was talking to die in this other verse over here'; that's not in evidence.  I'll admit that the consistency argument is strengthened by the fact that the two verses I mentioned are both in Matthew (not sure if they are anywhere else) which for other books we may normally assume implies internal consistency, but since the origins of Matthew are so murky, involving little things such as who the author(s) were and how much 'telephone gaming' it's gone through to reach us, I'm not sure about the strength of that assumption.

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Desertrat56
8 hours ago, On3Truly said:

589481310_atheism-19415(1)(1).thumb.png.9ab6edf1c60575a8ec7c4f465447b956.png

You accuse people of being atheist who aren't, just because they disagree with you. Like I said in my previous post, your faith and belief are weak if what others say causes you to lash out or feel like you are being "picked on".  It isn't personal, you make it personal.  Some of us don't agree with the normal christian story, but that has nothing to do with whether we believe god exists, we may not believe in your god or your story but you haven't asked about anyone else's story have you?  Others have and some have shared.  This isn't atheists against christians it is about common sense or belief.

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Desertrat56
8 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

To me, the fact that all these atoms and elements actually came together in a way that is now self-aware and can actually contemplate and investigate these same atoms and elements - is a miracle.

I agree with that.  I think religion makes the concept of god way too small and petty, it is a made up concept that has nothing to do with reality.

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Hammerclaw
37 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Absolutely agreed, which just bolsters my point that it is inconsistent.  Since I'd argue that it's not just a general 'thousand' (your point is equally true if we state 'a thousand believers') then I'd argue this observed inconsistency isn't just a mere 'interpretation', it's an interpretation with a lot of fairly clear evidence to support it.  I don't have to argue that a verse must be read a certain way, it's supposedly foolishness to non-believers after all, just noting that believers themselves don't agree seems sufficient to demonstrate its lack of clarity and consistency.

I've been thinking recently about something @eight bits referred to which I hadn't thought of at this level as it's somewhat subtle:  there seems to be a default tendency to assume that these accounts should harmonize with each other even though that assumption is not in evidence.  For example with the verse I just mentioned, a plain reading, supported I believe by some other things Jesus said, seems to indicate that Jesus thought 'the world' was ending soon. I had actually considered starting a short thread concerning the other viewpoint, asking for where Jesus implied that the world would continue on for millennia but kinda thought I found one on my own: Jesus making Peter 'the rock' as the head of his church.  Sure it's possible he just meant for the next ~50 years tops until he arrived again, but I think it's also fair to assume he may have been indicating a longer future there too.  If I'm understanding eight's point, there isn't really much justification for saying, 'well he implied he's going to have a long-lived church here so he must not have meant that the world will end before people he was talking to die in this other verse over here'; that's not in evidence.  I'll admit that the consistency argument is strengthened by the fact that the two verses I mentioned are both in Matthew (not sure if they are anywhere else) which for other books we may normally assume implies internal consistency, but since the origins of Matthew are so murky, involving little things such as who the author(s) were and how much 'telephone gaming' it's gone through to reach us, I'm not sure about the strength of that assumption.

It's all murky, post Jewish Revolt. Jerusalem sacked, public records destroyed, tens of thousands killed, what eye witnesses left, perished. The story of Jesus is a patchwork quilt, put together outside of Palestine, from fragments of memory, scraps of letters, stories passed down two generations or more. It's every bit as vague and contradictory as the histories of Buddha and Mohammed.. Christianity didn't come from the Bible; the Bible is a product of Christianity. For the most part, Christianity was an oral tradition before it became a written gospel. It's not that there weren't writings. Most of it's original adherents were literate Jews and proselyte Graeco-Roman Jews. Pauline Christianity took it beyond being a mere heresy of Judaism, Romanized it and made it an eclectic, cosmopolitan religion, suitable for dissemination throughout the multiethnic population of the Empire. 

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Stubbly_Dooright
1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

My husband Sean had a similar upbringing, never heard of one single bible story. His parents left beliefs up to them. 
 

My husband has no interest at all in anything biblical, not even for the sake of curiosity. 

Exactly, how it was for me and how it developed me. 

It always gets me, in this country when you’re allowed to practice what you believe, or don’t practice anything because you honestly don’t believe, it becomes so unfathomable that someone else grew up not in the same perspective as they have. But, if there is something here to remember, it’s that to be grateful that you could practice what you want, and be understanding that someone else is grateful to practice something different from them. 

I find religion, in the logical sense, cannot be objectively understood, that ethical societies would not only not enforce it but to show how it’s not favored in the public area. And I say that in the legal sense, I know there are some who would wish otherwise. I wonder, how it would feel for them, if they had to be forced to believe something else, they don’t homely believe. Would it make them hypercritical to complain? 

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XenoFish
10 hours ago, On3Truly said:

589481310_atheism-19415(1)(1).thumb.png.9ab6edf1c60575a8ec7c4f465447b956.png

main-qimg-da4a25380b8ab02e4c970939d11ed9

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Crazy Horse
1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

That meme did not say one thing about turning from god.  Why are you so sensitive?  If you are strong in your faith and belief then you have nothing to worry about when people don't agree with you. 

It has the word Atheist writ large across the top.

And why do you care what I think?

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Desertrat56
8 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

It has the word Atheist writ large across the top.

And why do you care what I think?

I wasn't talking about the atheist meme, I was talking about the meme you responded to with the atheist meme.

I don't care what you think.  That was my question to you, why do you care whether someone disagrees with your picture of reality?

Edited by Desertrat56
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Crikey
On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 4:58 PM, spartan max2 said:

I see people suffering from rare conditions, diseases, and dementia all the time too. Animals in nature consume each other, fight, and even rape just by nature.

Why blame God? Jesus said- "Satan has bound this crippled woman for 18 years", then he cured her..:D

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Crikey
49 minutes ago, Scudbuster said:

I would say that ignorant, power hungry, men made up this fallacy in the first place. Why? the lust for control, for influence..

Nope, try again..:P

"Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit...Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them, not lording it over those entrusted to you" (2 Cor 2:17,1 Peter 5:2-3)

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Crikey
3 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I agree with that.  I think religion makes the concept of god way too small and petty, it is a made up concept that has nothing to do with reality.

Yeah, God said- "Am I only a nearby God? Can you hide? I fill heaven and earth" (Jeremiah 23:23/4)

and he can't get much bigger than that..:D

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Crikey
4 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

So, deal with my lack of religious upbringing. I did great in it. :yes:  

Yeah but do you simply LIKE Jesus? If you do, you've got a good chance of going to that big party in the sky when you die, he sounds okay to me..:P

Jesus to stone-throwing mob- "ON YER BIKES, she's with me..Hold your head up baby"

Her- "Thanks JC let's go back to my place and I'll do us a fry-up"

rel-Jesus-prossie.jpg

Edited by Crikey

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freetoroam
23 minutes ago, Crikey said:

Nope, try again..:P

"Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit...Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them, not lording it over those entrusted to you" (2 Cor 2:17,1 Peter 5:2-3)

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Quote

 

The Shocking Net Worth of These 10 Richest Pastors Will Blow Your Mind

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/net-worth-richest-pastors-will-blow-your-mind.html/

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Quote

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Quote

 

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Crikey
3 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

The Shocking Net Worth of These 10 Richest Pastors Will Blow Your Mind

If they're true Christians I'm Mary Poppins...True Christians GIVE money away, not rake it in..:D

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freetoroam
Just now, Crikey said:

If they're true Christians I'm Mary Poppins...True Christians GIVE money away, not rake it in..:D

It is easy to give some money away when you are raking it in in the first place. 

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Crikey
7 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

It is easy to give some money away when you are raking it in in the first place. 

There's an old saying- it's always hard to write a cheque, especially if you're rich..:D

PS- I see the late Kirk Douglas had 60 million in the bank when he died, beats me why he didn't have fun giving it away while he was alive-

kd.jpg

Edited by Crikey
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Desertrat56
2 minutes ago, Crikey said:

There's an old saying- it's always hard to write a cheque, especially if you're rich..:D

PS- I see the late Kirk Douglas had 50 million in the bank when he died..

Kirk Douglas did not claim to represent "God" and tell people "God" told him to tell them to give him money.

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Desertrat56

Who was the televangelist who told everyone "God told me to go up into my tower and not come down until I have received a million dollars from my followers."  ?  That guy was wack and so was everyone who sent him money.  I feel bad for the starving little old ladies that sent money because he promised "God" would give them something in return.  Preying on desperate people should be one of the top sins, but it isn't even mentioned in the list.

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Crikey
4 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Kirk Douglas did not claim to represent "God" and tell people "God" told him to tell them to give him money.

But little old ladies LURV giving money to smarmy evangelists of their own free will, so the evangs probably think "If they're mug enough to give me money, I'm certainly not mug enough to refuse it".

But they can't get under JC's radar-

"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.." (2 Cor 11:13/14)

Edited by Crikey

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Hammerclaw

I'm quite bemused. You'd think anyone serious about promoting their religion and the Bible, would have the sense to leave Hollywood and the film industry out of it. Nevertheless, Kirk Douglas was a good man, a good Jew and left his fortune to charity. God will be his judge.

Matthew 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

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