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spartan max2

Has everyone asked God to reveal himself?

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Mr Walker
55 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

Well that is nonsense right there.  Plenty of gregarious animals can be seen displaying moral behavior.  We are a species made arrogant by non-naturalistic religions that simply assume that animals don't possess their own wisdom and way of doing things.  Anyone who has a pet can attest that they know the difference between right and wrong, despite the criticisms that we are anthropomorphising.  The fact is, that those academic experts who tried to say that animals don't love are provably wrong.   How do we know?  Well, pets produce oxytocin, the mammalian love hormone, in the presence of their owners, much as their owners do for them.  We are not so very different; humans just have a better onboard computer, but our physical structure and our sensory array are very poor by comparison to most animals.

NUP animals don't display "moral" (or immoral ) behaviour.

They have no abstract constructs of good and evil and thus those things do not exist for them.

They behave according to biological drivers and or socialisation evolved to promote their survival. Only humans know good from evil and only we can be moral or immoral   Thus, when a primate kills its rivals and all its rivals offspring, then forcibly has sex with a female  it is doing nothing wrong or immoral When it grooms another or feeds another, it is not being moral.

However if a human does these things it Is. Thus humans  can be held responsible for their behaviours but no other animal  can be   You might have to destroy a dog which attacked a person, but you could not attach moral or ethical failure, or blame, to it's behaviours. You could do so for any adult functioning human but NOT a young child or intellectually impaired adult 

  Hence very young children, and those adults with brain damage, are not  held accountable for their behaviours, just as animals are not 

Some animals may display behaviors which look moral because they imitate moral human behaviours, but   it is not moral unless the y can make a self aware and conscious choice.

ps love isnt chemical based in humans. It is an intellectual/ conceptual/ abstract construct, which we build 

yep lots of animals including humans respond to/with chemical stimuli but again that is not human love or human envy, hate, greed, fear, etc We have intellectual cognitive constructs which represent  those things and which we can identify  modify and choose . 

If a dog bites you from fear it is not the dogs moral failing, but if you  bite a dog out of fear  it is your moral failure to make a different choice.

  i love my dogs.

The dogs respond biologically to my love, care and affection/attention, but the y dont LOVE me. They don't even know what love is .

My wife is different. while the dogs and she may have a rush of oxycontin in my mere presence :) s he has something else which represents  human love. It is a deep intellectual cognitive construct or understanding and commitment , which she chose, built, and maintains, and has done so for decades 

She and I feel and recognise love as a pattern of responses in our brains which we have chosen to build and maintain,

Our love is like that of wesley and the princess bride or any  other great romance from  history or fiction. Better than some, as we live happily ever after, still in love after 50 years,  and faithful and committed to each other, through moral/ethical choice, not some chemical attraction . 

Edited by Mr Walker

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third_eye
16 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

*snip image*

It's fun to watch one dance though... 

:D

~

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Hammerclaw
18 minutes ago, third_eye said:

It's fun to watch one dance though... 

:D

~

tenor.gif?itemid=7609056

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Alchopwn
1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

NUP animals don't display "moral" (or immoral ) behaviour.

They have no abstract constructs of good and evil and thus those things do not exist for them.

Don't make assertions you can't prove.

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eight bits
9 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

If i say to you, "Drink poison and you will die ." that is  not a threat but a warning, and information you need to survive.

We aren't discussing two peers conversing about beverage choices. God speaks to Adam with menace for the purpose of influencing Adam's behavior.

"Is that a threat?" "No, it's a warning." Cliche dialog in a forgettable film, or something you hear in real life as a child from a schoolyard bully.

9 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

It is a simple teaching story, not convoluted or  deep  The writers arent trying to mislead but inform  

The story is dense, however, with relatively simple surface action arising from the conflict and interplay of strong underlying drives. I don't know that an intention "to mislead" even comes up, and there's little or nothing didactic about the story.

9 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Both Adam and eve were equally and individually responsible for their actions the idea that eve tempted adam is a catholic creation involving the perceived weakness and sexual power of women and  likewise adam simply told the truth about his wife 

While I agree that the misogynist tone within the story is interesting, it is on the received page, and thus far earlier than any Christian organization, including the Roman Catholic Church. It's there in what Adam says in his defense: “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

Granted, the male reader can run with that in either of at least two directions: "Hey, Adam, how about growing a pair?" or "Good point, Adam. Me, too. My life would be so much simpler if I didn't have to deal with women."

I had to laugh at your "Adam simply told the truth about his wife." Adam wasn't asked about his wife. God's question to Adam was  “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?” You is masculine singular throughout. Everything Adam said except "I ate it" was unresponsive. There's nothing "simple" about gratuitously introducing his wife into the proceedings that way.

9 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I have trouble comprehending why others can't do the same.

Probably because those others are aware that you haven't done it, however convinced you are that you have.

 

ETA Note to @Will Due

Quote

Honest and genuine, not so much.

Until you retract, we have nothing further to say to one another. I practice zero tolerance for accusations of dishonesty, and lose nothing by cutting off those whose idea of discussion is to indulge in them.

Edited by eight bits
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freetoroam
35 minutes ago, eight bits said:

We aren't discussing two peers conversing about beverage choices.

Sincs when has poison been a beverage choice? 

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third_eye
19 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

Sincs when has poison been a beverage choice? 

Cultist cocktail Of choice since 1978

~

Edited by third_eye
Addendum
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freetoroam
26 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Cultist cocktail Of choice since 1978

~

Good for them, even better for us.:whistle:

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lightly
55 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

Sincs when has poison been a beverage choice? 

Since the invention/ discovery of Alcohol.    ;).  It's true though...alcohol is a poison.

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freetoroam
10 minutes ago, lightly said:

Since the invention/ discovery of Alcohol.    ;).  It's true though...alcohol is a poison.

Too much of anything can be harmful, even water.

Quote

Obviously there is no wateromics anonymous, but it is down the drinkers if they want to poison their own  bodies with excess drinking. 

A bottle of water does not create the same effect as a bottle of vodka , but a little bit of brandy in my coffee each evening has done me no harm. 

Moderation is the key.

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lightly
2 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

Too much of anything can be harmful, even water.

Obviously there is no wateromics anonymous, but it is down the drinkers if they want to poison their own  bodies with excess drinking. 

A bottle of water does not create the same effect as a bottle of vodka , but a little bit of brandy in my coffee each evening has done me no harm. 

Moderation is the key.

Absolutely free,  which is why I quit drinking Whiskey lonnnnnnnng ago.... That whole " moderation" thing.   :wacko:.      :P

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third_eye

Pffft teetotaller's... 

~

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Dejarma
9 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

Another daft question.

Who's they?

The extra eyed but nonetheless blind.

 

 

a daft question in a daft thread... But you know best it seems- have fun

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Stubbly_Dooright
10 hours ago, Will Due said:
10 hours ago, Dejarma said:

who's 'they'?

 

Another daft question.

How is that? When you don’t pinpoint the subject of your .....’put down’ (how I see it as), it can be totally understood, to really not know who you are talking about. ‘They’ can be numerous possibilities. Was that your intent? 

Quote

Who's they?

The extra eyed but nonetheless blind.

Again, with the vague possibilities. I guess, you don’t want your ‘points’ to hit home then. ;)  :no:  

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Stubbly_Dooright
1 hour ago, third_eye said:

Pffft teetotaller's... 

~

There is a lot can be said, about those who total their tee(tea) (( ;) Stole that from a “Pink Panther” movie)).

Then again, there is a lot that can be said for alcohol too. :devil: 

But, bring up coffee for debate, and that would be a whole different ballgame of risk and whiplash!!!! :wacko:  

 

 

 

 

Ok, I’m done. 

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Sherapy
11 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

You either lie deliberately about me, or you believe the things you say.

Either way they are wrong/untrue, and the y are NOT what my posts say 

Thus I can only conclude that you construct an understanding of me from your own world view and perspectives on life, which you evolved to cope with you own life.

Naturally, because it is  an internal construction  cognitive/ psychological construct, which requires consistency to maintain, you would not realise this is what you do.and you cannot deviate from  it without it collapsing. 

  

 

Take a breath and move on. 

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third_eye
1 hour ago, Will Due said:

 

Retract? 

You're more daft than I thought.

Why can't you and your buddies see that posting the things you do only goes towards revealing your lack of character?

Are you people blind or just pig-ignorant.

 

 

You're not channelling hard enough...

Read your precious book of lies...

Quote

What Character is NOT

A display of specialized skill does not signify possession of spiritual capacity. Cleverness is not a substitute for true character. ~The Urantia Book, (48:7.3)

Fear and anger weaken character and destroy happiness. ~ The Urantia Book, (140:5.6)

The Rewards of Character

It is the plan of your superiors to advance you by augmented trusts just as fast as your character is sufficiently developed to gracefully bear these added responsibilities, but to overload the individual only courts disaster and insures disappointment. ~ The Urantia Book, (28:6.15)

https://truthbook.com/urantia/topical-studies/character

~

Jesus oh Jesus, wherefore art thou... 

~

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Hammerclaw
5 hours ago, eight bits said:

ETA Note to @Will Due

Quote

Honest and genuine, not so much.

Until you retract, we have nothing further to say to one another. I practice zero tolerance for accusations of dishonesty, and lose nothing by cutting off those whose idea of discussion is to indulge in them.

I would describe you as genuinely honest. I'm honest to a fault, myself---and I have many.:D

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rashore

Thread closed per OP request. 

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