Debunking

[E -Elle]

So apparently people get confused about lucifer (never capitalize the name of the enemy, even if not literarily sound (!!!! Yes!!!!). Always capitalize God and any name of Him), it being still called as such, confusing it with (the) watchers, who was holding the flaming sword against in the garden's protection. But don't "ad-lib" opinion to be truth, gnostic or otherwise foolish. Whether you are happy to call satan lucifer, his former name, the bane should be called what it is, "adversary", the translation of satan. Obviously no one should fall to his idiot schemes no matter how "all" of it (and all is it) it is. 

[XenoFish]

Lucifer is a reference to the morning star Venus. Satan merely means adversary or accuser. 

[WanderingFool0]

4 minutes ago, E -Elle said:

So apparently people get confused about lucifer (never capitalize the name of the enemy, even if not literarily sound (!!!! Yes!!!!). Always capitalize God and any name of Him), it being still called as such, confusing it with (the) watchers, who was holding the flaming sword against in the garden's protection. But don't "ad-lib" opinion to be truth, gnostic or otherwise foolish. Whether you are happy to call satan lucifer, his former name, the bane should be called what it is, "adversary", the translation of satan. Obviously no one should fall to his idiot schemes no matter how "all" of it (and all is it) it is. 

Any confusion that may arise only comes from the fact, that the concept of Satan; the accuser and adversary of mankind, has been changed and has evolved not only within Judaism itself, but than later by Christianity and Islam. 

In the original Jewish model Satan was simply a servant of God, one tasked with testing and accusing mankind for their own evil inclinations and miss deeds. Than later Christianity evolved the symbol to not only being an enemy of man, but an enemy of God and rebellious one at that. Then, finally Islam who agreed with the Jews that angels couldn't rebel, decided that Satan wasn't really an angel at all, but was in fact a member of another spirit race called the Djinn.

I would agree one should always be on guard against the  yetzer hara;  evil inclinations though.

[zep73]

Satan is just a symbol of everything that's wrong with life. It needs better names IMO. May I suggest: Disease, abuse and premature death?

God is totally useless.

[Guyver]

2 hours ago, E -Elle said:

So apparently people get confused about lucifer (never capitalize the name of the enemy, even if not literarily sound (!!!! Yes!!!!). Always capitalize God and any name of Him), it being still called as such, confusing it with (the) watchers, who was holding the flaming sword against in the garden's protection. But don't "ad-lib" opinion to be truth, gnostic or otherwise foolish. Whether you are happy to call satan lucifer, his former name, the bane should be called what it is, "adversary", the translation of satan. Obviously no one should fall to his idiot schemes no matter how "all" of it (and all is it) it is. 

Lucifer is not a real name.  It is a made up name by bible translators...kinda like Jehovah.  Anyway, the word “Lucifer” is a Greek word which translates to “light bearer” or “bringer of light.”  In the original Hebrew, which is available for free online in the closest to original text....Lucifer does not appear.

So, forget about the name Lucifer.....it’s not real.  If you are a Christian, it is Satan who is your enemy, along with death and the flesh.

[Guyver]

Ps.  I mean the Great Scroll of Isaiah from the Dead Sea scrolls.  That’s the closest to original Hebrew.

[Guyver]

30 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

Satan is just a symbol of everything that's wrong with life. It needs better names IMO. May I suggest: Disease, abuse and premature death?

God is totally useless.

What about viruses?

[Imaginarynumber1]

I have never heard anyone confuse LUCIFER with the angel with the flaming sword. I have seen people confuse LUCIFER with SATAN, but they're usually people way too obsessed with their god anyway

[+joc]

4 hours ago, E -Elle said:

So apparently people get confused about lucifer (never capitalize the name of the enemy, even if not literarily sound (!!!! Yes!!!!). Always capitalize God and any name of Him), it being still called as such, confusing it with (the) watchers, who was holding the flaming sword against in the garden's protection. But don't "ad-lib" opinion to be truth, gnostic or otherwise foolish. Whether you are happy to call satan lucifer, his former name, the bane should be called what it is, "adversary", the translation of satan. Obviously no one should fall to his idiot schemes no matter how "all" of it (and all is it) it is. 

So apparently people get confused.  That would have been a good place to end your diatribe. 

[rashore]

5 hours ago, E -Elle said:

So apparently people get confused about lucifer (never capitalize the name of the enemy, even if not literarily sound (!!!! Yes!!!!). Always capitalize God and any name of Him), it being still called as such, confusing it with (the) watchers, who was holding the flaming sword against in the garden's protection. But don't "ad-lib" opinion to be truth, gnostic or otherwise foolish. Whether you are happy to call satan lucifer, his former name, the bane should be called what it is, "adversary", the translation of satan. Obviously no one should fall to his idiot schemes no matter how "all" of it (and all is it) it is. 

Welcome to UM

What is it that you are debunking with this?

[Kittens Are Jerks]

5 hours ago, E -Elle said:

So apparently people get confused about lucifer (never capitalize the name of the enemy, even if not literarily sound (!!!! Yes!!!!). Always capitalize God and any name of Him), it being still called as such, confusing it with (the) watchers, who was holding the flaming sword against in the garden's protection. But don't "ad-lib" opinion to be truth, gnostic or otherwise foolish. Whether you are happy to call satan lucifer, his former name, the bane should be called what it is, "adversary", the translation of satan. Obviously no one should fall to his idiot schemes no matter how "all" of it (and all is it) it is. 

There should be no confusion really. Satan's name is not Lucifer. In fact, isn't Jesus called Lucifer in the New Testament?

Anyway, seems to me that Satan has been 'demonised' by Christians. Hardly fair when God has been the bigger jerk.

Not that it matters. They're all fictional characters anyway.

 

[Mr Walker]

5 hours ago, Guyver said:

Lucifer is not a real name.  It is a made up name by bible translators...kinda like Jehovah.  Anyway, the word “Lucifer” is a Greek word which translates to “light bearer” or “bringer of light.”  In the original Hebrew, which is available for free online in the closest to original text....Lucifer does not appear.

So, forget about the name Lucifer.....it’s not real.  If you are a Christian, it is Satan who is your enemy, along with death and the flesh.

Biblically satan WAS originally lucifer (The light bringer)  The leader of all the angels, the most beautiful and charismatic He literally radiated light and power  For reasons which are unclear  he rebelled against god taking a full third of the angels with him (in the narrative)

later he came to earth in the guise of a serpent  or deceiver and tempted mankind

He did the same for all the races of heaven, but mankind was the only one to be deceived   (This is how the writers explained present human nature )

Its true that the story evolved over time and the last chapter has lucifer/satan being crushed and destroyed along with his angels and the humans who still followed him

Its one of the  things which distinguishes christian belief from  judaism, and if you are christian it is part of christian theology 

If you  are jewish you also dont believe christ was the son of god or had the abilty to save all of humanity.  lucifer appears as the king of tyre in the OT   (Ezekiel 28) however the language  used strongly implies a double reference to both the king and to the angel lucifer 

quote

 

As the prophet continues his description of “the king of Tyre” some things just don’t fit a human person:

You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. (Ezekiel 28:14-15)

 

https://sharperiron.org/article/mysterious-king-of-tyre

 

copy

However, some of the descriptions in Ezekiel 28:11–19 go beyond any mere human king. In no sense could an earthly king claim to be “in Eden” or to be “the anointed cherub who covers” or to be “on the holy mountain of God.” Therefore, most Bible interpreters believe that Ezekiel 28:11–19 is a dual prophecy, comparing the pride of the king of Tyre to the pride of Satan. Some propose that the king of Tyre was actually possessed by Satan, making the link between the two even more powerful and applicable.

Before his fall, Satan was indeed a beautiful creature (Ezekiel 28:12–13). He was perhaps the most beautiful and powerful of all the angels. The phrase “guardian cherub” possibly indicates that Satan was the angel who “guarded” God’s presence. Pride led to Satan’s fall. Rather than give God the glory for creating him so beautifully, Satan took pride in himself, thinking that he himself was responsible for his exalted status. Satan’s rebellion resulted in God casting Satan from His presence and will, eventually, result in God condemning Satan to the lake of fire for all eternity (Revelation 20:10).

https://www.gotquestions.org/King-of-Tyre.html

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

There should be no confusion really. Satan's name is not Lucifer. In fact, isn't Jesus called Lucifer in the New Testament?

Anyway, seems to me that Satan has been 'demonised' by Christians. Hardly fair when God has been the bigger jerk.

Not that it matters. They're all fictional characters anyway.

 

Even as fiction it is important to get the storyline right, and the characters accurate.  Lucifer is satan The bight morning star is christ 

quote

Throughout the world, if you ask people who "Heyleel" (hey-LEYL) is, most will not know what to answer. But if you ask them, "Who is Lucifer?" you will very likely get the correct answer. People know who Lucifer is. Ask the Luciferians, who worship Lucifer as a being of light. Ask the Satanists, who call their master Lucifer. No one is in doubt as to who Lucifer is.

What if you ask them, "Who is the morning star?" or "Who is the day star?" Most will know it’s Jesus. Look at these scriptures:

2 Peter 1:19: "We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:"

Revelation 22:16: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

Any translation that says "day star" or "morning star" or "star of the morning" in Isaiah 14:12, like most modern perversions, is bringing confusion. And God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33). Many people reading the modern perversions end up asking, "If Lucifer is the morning star and Jesus is the morning star, then is Lucifer Jesus?" The modern translations are simply not clear!

That is not all. The term translated "Lucifer" does NOT at all mean "morning star" or "star of the morning." That would be two totally different Hebrew words. The word means "light-bearer." In Greek it's "heosphoros," "light-bearer." In Latin it's translated "Lucifer," light-bearer. Whether you say "heylel," "heosphoros" or "lucifer," the meaning is the same: "light-bearer." But only Lucifer communicates who we are talking about in English.

 

https://www.chick.com/information/article?id=Lucifer-or-Morning-Star-in-Isaiah-14

Edited February 24, 2020 by Mr Walker

[Rlyeh]

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Biblically satan WAS originally lucifer

Wrong, Satan has never once been called Lucifer in the Bible.

[E -Elle]

16 hours ago, joc said:

So apparently people get confused.  That would have been a good place to end your diatribe. 

Yeah! Although people go about life as if God doesn't exist, yammering why they can't solve their gordian knot of problems with some bound from ignorance and denial- God. Submittance to the one higher power.

[E -Elle]

14 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

There should be no confusion really. Satan's name is not Lucifer. In fact, isn't Jesus called Lucifer in the New Testament?

Anyway, seems to me that Satan has been 'demonised' by Christians. Hardly fair when God has been the bigger jerk.

Not that it matters. They're all fictional characters anyway.

 

Ok why do people comment when they don't believe in God? Isn't that just a waste of your supposed blasphemous better than God time?

[+joc]

3 minutes ago, E -Elle said:

Yeah! Although people go about life as if God doesn't exist, yammering why they can't solve their gordian knot of problems with some bound from ignorance and denial- God. Submittance to the one higher power.

Not everyone shares your belief.

[E -Elle]

15 hours ago, Tuco's Gas said:

Agreed about the term "God" (or even the non-capitalized "god") being basically useless. To the point, in fact, that whenever I'm asked any question regarding my belief in his existence, I immediately counter with my own question: "Define 'God.' " Since, after all, that word can refer to anything from the biblical, personal, Yahweh type of deity to a decidedly non-personal "universal Life Force' or Intelligence.  Or, even further afield, to Paul Tillich's "Ground of Being."

As far as the non-capitalized gods...Oh Lawdy (see what I did there?) That word really CAN run the gamut from powerful supernatural being to the pantheistic or Druid nature forces, to the almost comically flawed gods of Ancient Greece and Rome.

So, yeah. God: he needs a qualifier! LOL 

Cheers.

Let's make it easy. Capitalize duck every time and apparently he (assuming male) is a Thanos level threat that deserves the name as "the duck" as it/he/that/whatever is known as Duck. It obviously stands a bit beyond ducks in a fashion. 

Now God. Capitalized "G". He is the creator. Then, lower case gods? Falsies. Clear and simple, ey? Done.

[E -Elle]

6 minutes ago, joc said:

Not everyone shares your belief.

Is that informative or a half-step towards you and other pagans' long-sought-after not possible manifesto?

[Rlyeh]

7 minutes ago, E -Elle said:

Ok why do people comment when they don't believe in God? Isn't that just a waste of your supposed blasphemous better than God time?

Because your topic has nothing to do with God's existence.  I can't think of a bigger waste of time.

[E -Elle]

1 minute ago, Rlyeh said:

Because your topic has nothing to do with God's existence.  I can't think of a bigger waste of time.

So they comment when they don't believe because the topic was not God based but meant to question the darkness into light?

Wow. You've also blasphemed and, such wasted time.

[Rlyeh]

Just now, E -Elle said:

So they comment when they don't believe because the topic was not God based but meant to question the darkness into light?

They commented about religious characters in your dogma, not whether they exist or not. 

 

Just now, E -Elle said:

Wow. You've also blasphemed and, such wasted time.

Oh no!  Burn me to the stake.

[E -Elle]

5 minutes ago, Tuco's Gas said:

Not clear and simple at all. Your capitalized God is simply another false god to someone who belongs to a different cult...er, religion than you.

Go troll elsewhere,  please. 

As many words as you use, a person informed as you are should not seek dark. Go investigate and expose the baby eating illuminati, not troll topics because you fear the creator.

P.S. next time, just ask the speaker if they mean capital G or lower case g. I've seen kindergarteners do better.

[E -Elle]

3 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

They commented about religious characters in your dogma, not whether they exist or not. 

 

Oh no!  Burn me to the stake.

Jesus is God's son. God is the Father and the one who created all. Man was brought forth. Lucifer was the highest angel. It fell. Known as satan, or adversary, it can no longer be angel of the morning, but we know which angel was wrong, and call it the enemy, that it is not high.

Edited February 24, 2020 by E -Elle
Grammar

[Rlyeh]

Just now, E -Elle said:

Jesus is God's son. God is the Father and they one who created all.

Who also has names like Yahweh/Jehovah/El and developed from ancient Semite polytheism.

 

Just now, E -Elle said:

Lucifer was the highest angel. It fell. Known as satan, or adversary, it can no longer be angel of the morning, but we know which angel was wrong, and call it the enemy, that it is not high.

Satan is never once called Lucifer in the Bible.