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Guyver

Dealing with Sorrow

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Guyver

Not sure if this is the best place to place this thread, but sadness, sorrow, grief is a part of our consciousness therefore a psychological aspect of ourselves.....

Anyway.....let’s say you find yourself faced with a very difficult and emotional situation that involves a loved one being in jeopardy, illness, injury, whathaveyou.  Really, it’s any situation that you find yourself powerless to change and no ability to effect the outcome, even though you have attempted every means to do so.

I hope I am making sense right now.

So, a difficult and grievous situation occurs and you feel very sorrowful and depressed.  How do you deal with this situation, and would you please discuss acceptance with me....what does that really mean and how does it help....if at all?

Thank you.

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Desertrat56

I think acceptance is the only way to deal with it. You have done everything you are able, the outcome is not going to change so you have to accept that your love is all you have for that person and what you need for yourself.  I have experienced this and I have no other words to describe how to find a way out of the sorrow and grief.  When it is over, you still have your good memories of that person and you can teach yourself to emphasize that.  Time does make a difference, we all get used to a new situation eventually.

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Guyver

I mean, part of me thinks that just nothing one can do about such things except for experience the pain, deal with the grief, and just move on as best one can.

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quiXilver

In my experience, when no option for action to alleviate or shift the situation is possibe, then acceptance is a means to decrease suffering (not abate it), but decrease it. 

Resisting what is outside one's ability to affect, adds another layer to the suffering.

 

Have you noticed that when you are exuberant with joy, you laugh and exalt in it and don't resist it... and it soon passes?

It works the same way with the unpleasant emotions.  What we resist, we tamp down its flow and increase the duration of experiencing it.

Resistance slows down flow of energy in a system.

 

When we resist our negative emotions, we increase the time it takes them to move through our system of awareness and increase our suffering by prolonging the process.  Ironcially, in resisting what we don't want to experience, we intensify and extend what is unwanted.

 

Acceptance, in the case of not being able to affect something, such as the death of a cherished one, reduces suffering by not adding to it.  But it cannot alleviate it entirely in my experience.

 

Only time seems softens the teeth and the mellow the sting. 

Edited by quiXilver
added a sentence for clarity
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Guyver

I was just standing in my garden, thinking about this, and I see such beauty around me and I’m in my happy place.  Got my hot little dark board set up in my workshop and so forth.

Anyyway, I was thinking about my ancestors....my Grandparents and other family members and such....kinda wishing I could call one and talk to them......but they are gone.  Then I realized that I’m the man now and I have to be the one who is strong when times get tough.

It sucks to have to be a grown up sometimes.  Thank God for guitars, cadillacs, and hillbilly music.

 

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Guyver

That was awesome quiXsilver.

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Sheltie

The only advice I can think of to add is the serenity prayer:  "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and Wisdom to know the difference."

I know it may seem sappy and cornball but it really does apply to the scenario you described.  We have to understand that, as much as we want to help and protect loved ones, there's only so much we can do.  

 

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Guyver
15 minutes ago, quiXilver said:

In my experience, when no option for action to alleviate or shift the situation is possibe, then acceptance is a means to decrease suffering (not abate it), but decrease it. 

Resisting what is outside one's ability to affect, adds another layer to the suffering.

 

Have you noticed that when you are exuberant with joy, you laugh and exalt in it and don't resist it... and it soon passes?

It works the same way with the unpleasant emotions.  What we resist, we tamp down its flow and increase the duration of experiencing it.

Resistance slows down flow of energy in a system.

 

When we resist our negative emotions, we increase the time it takes them to move through our system of awareness and increase our suffering by prolonging the process.  Ironcially, in resisting what we don't want to experience, we intensify and extend what is unwanted.

 

Acceptance, in the case of not being able to affect something, such as the death of a cherished one, reduces suffering by not adding to it.  But it cannot alleviate it entirely in my experience.

 

Only time seems softens the teeth and the mellow the sting. 

God, every time I read this it just seems more brilliant.  It’s just so truthful.

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Guyver
8 minutes ago, Sheltie said:

The only advice I can think of to add is the serenity prayer:  "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and Wisdom to know the difference."

I know it may seem sappy and cornball but it really does apply to the scenario you described.  We have to understand that, as much as we want to help and protect loved ones, there's only so much we can do.  

 

That is a fantastic prayer and one I believe in, I just can’t bring myself to pray right now.  I’m dealing with a loved one who is gripped by addiction and won’t stay in rehab.  And what’s especially sad is how talented a person this is.  Prolly the best musician I’ve ever seen and a brilliant linguist.  It’s just such a waste of beauty.

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Festina

Suffering was something that I have not dealt well with in the past.  I had a OBE which showed me Consciousness exists outside the body.  This alleviated my fear of death and the suffering of excessive mournings.  I do not believe in death or eternal damnation — Hell — either.  This does not cause me to behave badly, quite the contrary.  For many people the death of themselves or a loved one is their greatest fear.  

“There is no death, what seems so is transition”.

If everything in life were perfect we would learn nothing and stagnation — real ‘death’ — would be the result.  This is the only “ Death”. 

I see everything as a learning experience — “Life is a school house for learning and not a courthouse for Judging”.

Also, one should not have any thoughts one does not want to out-manifest, like worrying about your or any one else's health or wishing Ill upon someone, revenge and envy are negative thoughts.   Thoughts create — for better or worse.  Taking things personally causes unnecessary suffering as well.  When negative thoughts pop into my mind I push them out, this is a mediation of sorts.  I’ve improved much over the years.  

I still suffer, but much less.  

Hope this helps!

 

 

 

F97218D2-6C5E-4711-BF67-08A3026FB94F.jpeg

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Manwon Lender
1 hour ago, Guyver said:

Not sure if this is the best place to place this thread, but sadness, sorrow, grief is a part of our consciousness therefore a psychological aspect of ourselves.....

Anyway.....let’s say you find yourself faced with a very difficult and emotional situation that involves a loved one being in jeopardy, illness, injury, whathaveyou.  Really, it’s any situation that you find yourself powerless to change and no ability to effect the outcome, even though you have attempted every means to do so.

I hope I am making sense right now.

So, a difficult and grievous situation occurs and you feel very sorrowful and depressed.  How do you deal with this situation, and would you please discuss acceptance with me....what does that really mean and how does it help....if at all?

Thank you.

I have been through this, I had a younger brother who died in Dec 2017. He suffered from mental illness, which caused him to self medicate with Drugs and Alcohol. Years before his death, I had brought him into my home and for a couple of years attempted to help him. But I was really powerless to do so, finally as I have said above he was hit by a car on a highway and was killed.

The first thing I did was to reexamine everything I did to he help, and even though I had done all I could do I still suffered from guilt. Acceptance is an important part of rationalizing what happened, because by taking everything in to consideration you can begin to put the emotions aside and get a clear picture of what caused the traumatic situation to occur. In my case it allowed me to realize that I had done everything I could have to help him. 

This finally allowed me to release the guilt I had inside, so that I could rationalize that it was not my fault. With this I could finally see that at least now he was in a better place and I could feel good in the fact that he wasn't suffering any longer. Now my recommendation to you is simple if the person is still living, and the situation is emotionally compromising you do everything within your power to help the person. 

Because if you do nothing and the worst occurs you may never be able to remove the guilt that you may feel, and acceptance may also be something outside of your reach. If this happens the pain of loss may never leave you, because you may not be able to realize there was really nothing you could do.

This is kinda hard for me to talk about, I hope you can understand what I am trying to say.

Peace

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Festina
13 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I have been through this, I had a younger brother who died in Dec 2017. He suffered from mental illness, which caused him to self medicate with Drugs and Alcohol. Years before his death, I had brought him into my home and for a couple of years attempted to help him. But I was really powerless to do so, finally as I have said above he was hit by a car on a highway and was killed.

The first thing I did was to reexamine everything I did to he help, and even though I had done all I could do I still suffered from guilt. Acceptance is an important part of rationalizing what happened, because by taking everything in to consideration you can begin to put the emotions aside and get a clear picture of what caused the traumatic situation to occur. In my case it allowed me to realize that I had done everything I could have to help him. 

This finally allowed me to release the guilt I had inside, so that I could rationalize that it was not my fault. With this I could finally see that at least now he was in a better place and I could feel good in the fact that he wasn't suffering any longer. Now my recommendation to you is simple if the person is still living, and the situation is emotionally compromising you do everything within your power to help the person. 

Because if you do nothing and the worst occurs you may never be able to remove the guilt that you may feel, and acceptance may also be something outside of your reach. If this happens the pain of loss may never leave you, because you may not be able to realize there was really nothing you could do.

This is kinda hard for me to talk about, I hope you can understand what I am trying to say.

Peace

‘Lessons for us all.’

It was his time —  and he is with the Angels — suffering no more and wishes you not to suffer any longer. 

He may have harmed others if he lived longer....The Guides are always there.  

 

 

Edited by Festina
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Festina

DON’T  BE BLUE!!

 

Edited by Festina
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Festina
2 hours ago, Guyver said:

I was just standing in my garden, thinking about this, and I see such beauty around me and I’m in my happy place.  Got my hot little dark board set up in my workshop and so forth.

Anyyway, I was thinking about my ancestors....my Grandparents and other family members and such....kinda wishing I could call one and talk to them......but they are gone.  Then I realized that I’m the man now and I have to be the one who is strong when times get tough.

It sucks to have to be a grown up sometimes.  Thank God for guitars, cadillacs, and hillbilly music.

 

 

My dad came to me is a vision whilst sleeping, it was no dream.  I was devastated by his unexpected passing twenty five years ago.....he said “Don’t worry about me, I’m in ‘heaven’ —  I have a  dog and a best friend”.  My mother begrudged him close friends and would not allow a dog in the house.  Technically he was in the “ Summerland”, the higher astral plane.  I remember it like it was yesterday.  I didn’t believe in an afterlife at the time.  His short visit healed me instantaneously.  

You will see them all again....but don’t be in any hurry.  You’ve got eternity. 

Edited by Festina
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Festina
1 hour ago, Guyver said:

That is a fantastic prayer and one I believe in, I just can’t bring myself to pray right now.  I’m dealing with a loved one who is gripped by addiction and won’t stay in rehab.  And what’s especially sad is how talented a person this is.  Prolly the best musician I’ve ever seen and a brilliant linguist.  It’s just such a waste of beauty.

Think of him healed.  And well. This is how real healing works.  Imagine him well. Not Ill. Focus your energy on this. 

Remember, do not have any thoughts you do not want to have out-manifest. 

Medical practitioners scare young women whose mothers have had breast cancer into believing they will contract the disease as well.   This worry may very well bring on the disease.  And They recommend regular mammograms which may actually cause the cancer.  They deny this but I’ve told my dentist I do not want x-rays unless they are needed, yet he ensures  me they are completely safe — while covering my body with a lead blanket and having the dental tech leave the room when they push the button.  :w00t:

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XenoFish
2 hours ago, Guyver said:

So, a difficult and grievous situation occurs and you feel very sorrowful and depressed.  How do you deal with this situation, and would you please discuss acceptance with me....what does that really mean and how does it help....if at all?

Accept what you can change, if you can't change it then alter your attitude towards it. It isn't a easy or fast process in some cases. It might take years and some very supportive friends. 

In regards to actual acceptance. It's about how much 'power' you have over the situation/event. You don't need to think happy thoughts to work through things. Sometimes you've got to look at it in as brutal way as possible. Kind of embrace it and learn from it. I had to really look objectively at my life and what I could do in order to being moving forward. 

Hope this helps.

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spud the mackem

Death is something that everyone has to encounter personally , but its not Death that bothers me ,but how I am going to get there , hopefully not having a fatal accident and taking some poor person with me . I have over the years seen Death in many forms and have missed it by seconds or inches but one day I will be caught . No worries ,as the last words my wife said to me were " Bill ,Don't worry ", and that was 12 hours After she died .

There is a poem but I can only remember the first verse  ....

Do not stand at my grave and cry , I am not there ,I did not die .

Do not stand at my grave and weep ,I am not there ,I do not sleep.

 

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Mantis914

I recently had a close friend whom I had known since elementary school just post on FB that his father passed away.  That news instantly brought back the pain of when my father passed away 6 years ago as I knew his father also.  I think it is true that time will help heal but it won't help forget.  If you have kids that weren't of age to know them, it helps to tell them what kind of person they were and relate funny or positive stories about them also.  After time, the pain from having them taken from you gets less but their memory lives on.   I'm not sure if that would qualify as acceptance but that's my experience.

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quiXilver
5 hours ago, Guyver said:

That is a fantastic prayer and one I believe in, I just can’t bring myself to pray right now.  I’m dealing with a loved one who is gripped by addiction and won’t stay in rehab.  And what’s especially sad is how talented a person this is.  Prolly the best musician I’ve ever seen and a brilliant linguist.  It’s just such a waste of beauty.

I have a family member with a destructive addiction.

The work and words of Gabor Mate' have been helpful for me, both in dealing with my family member and in how I perceive addiction and it's process.

 

I find the model the West, particularly America takes to be medieval and blame oriented.

Addiction to me is not the disease of a sick person.  It is the symptom of a disconnected person.  When we lack connection, we will substitute it with anything that either masks the pain of disconnect, or temporarily relieves the symptom. 

 

Gabor has become something of a force in re-imagining addiction and options for working with it with less of the victim/judge modality.  He has several books and a slew of free lectures posted on youtube.  I highly recommend him for anyone who has addictive tendencies and folks in their lives struggling with dependency on chemicals in place of thriving.

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openozy
8 hours ago, Festina said:

 

My dad came to me is a vision whilst sleeping, it was no dream.  I was devastated by his unexpected passing twenty five years ago.....he said “Don’t worry about me, I’m in ‘heaven’ —  I have a  dog and a best friend”.  My mother begrudged him close friends and would not allow a dog in the house.  Technically he was in the “ Summerland”, the higher astral plane.  I remember it like it was yesterday.  I didn’t believe in an afterlife at the time.  His short visit healed me instantaneously.  

You will see them all again....but don’t be in any hurry.  You’ve got eternity. 

Very different to a dream.Top account Festina and can relate personally to ever word in this post,even so always nice to have confirmation.I like your dad has a dog with him,I knew they never leave us.

 

10 hours ago, Guyver said:

How do you deal with this situation

I think you have to look at reality, no matter how far away it seems when you are in a movie like state.Let it out,cry or whatever,holding in pain and causing stress to your body is what ends you,physically and mentally.Your loved ones passed come to you when it gets too tough as I've found and they will guide us through when our time comes.No need to worry about them, they have already made it.

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Jujo-jo
On 2/24/2020 at 12:51 PM, Guyver said:

Not sure if this is the best place to place this thread, but sadness, sorrow, grief is a part of our consciousness therefore a psychological aspect of ourselves.....

Anyway.....let’s say you find yourself faced with a very difficult and emotional situation that involves a loved one being in jeopardy, illness, injury, whathaveyou.  Really, it’s any situation that you find yourself powerless to change and no ability to effect the outcome, even though you have attempted every means to do so.

I hope I am making sense right now.

So, a difficult and grievous situation occurs and you feel very sorrowful and depressed.  How do you deal with this situation, and would you please discuss acceptance with me....what does that really mean and how does it help....if at all?

Thank you.

Sometimes the only thing we can do is ride out the storm, I know it sounds pretty lame but sometimes no matter what you do, its gripe is mightier then our abilities to force ourselves to over come it. And you can force yourself to do anything but in doing so sometimes it'll delays our healing process and only causes more damage in the long run. 

It's helpful to keep busy therapeutically but who wants to do that when you're grieving or depressed...

It's easy for me to make my situation worse, by not looking at the nature around me and by not making myself do things outside of my comfort zone, can very easily make me fall deeper into the despair. At that point I look to self discipline with a balance between what is right for me and what is not. Simetimes I have to become strick every moment of my days and nights on the choices that I make because physical, spiritual, mental health are must and they each need nurturing and maintenance.

I have learned that it's ok to grieve for the living; once I accepted the truth and that they are no longer the people who I once knew there is no point in not grieving at that point. 

I've found that by doing this that when the time has come for the true passing it has been much easier. Even though they are here and may look and sound the same in the here and now, they have hinestly already left and are gone, you may get glimpse of them 100% but mostly short periods of time and soon I'm reminded of the truth.

I was thinking last night... (this is why it's ironic to me that I find this topic here today...) but last night I had the thought that if we attended funerals as often as we are in a grocery store or as often as we send out mail then we would accept it easier in our hearts and in our minds and in our emotions. 

People pass way every day, thousands upon thousands just not thousands who we know who are in our inner circle, when it is someone from our inner circle it hits us hard, were made hurt, confused dont want to be without but last night it occured to me that it wouldn't hit us so hard if we attended funerals like we tend to our other daily chores in life and our other obligations, we go about with all that we do and it's something we don't address until we absolutly have to. If we tended to the subject routinely like how often we make a grocery list, or go to the the dentist or to the post office it would just be a normal thing we do but no, we only face it when we're hit with it, most of the time our lives keep us so busy we don't even attend 1/2 the funerals that we should and because it's not a pleasant thing to do wed rather not, it's sad, its awkward but does it really have to be?

My point is that if we instead, face the truth of the matter and the event instead of running from it and look at it for what it truely is worth, we would be able to accept it much easier...

Some people are really good at not even acknowledging that death occurs, they avoid the obituaries and the funeral home at all cost. 

But in my opinion honestly sometimes you just have to go through all of the steps of all the emotions that grieving is made up of; because this is our normal for dealing with it and there is no time limite on grieving, it has a way of taking it's own time before healing from the loss is behind us.

It may take a long time and if it does that is perfectly 100 % fine and knowing that, that it is ok to take as long as you need is also a big part of healing, just have to remember to do what you can during the process but just not to push yourself too hard.

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openozy
1 hour ago, Jujo-jo said:

I had the thought that if we attended funerals as often as we are in a grocery store or as often as we send out mail then we would accept it easier in our hearts and in our minds and in our emotions. 

I think if you live until your 80's that might be a possibility lol, and it would become just a matter of fact.

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Jujo-jo
5 minutes ago, openozy said:

I think if you live until your 80's that might be a possibility lol, and it would become just a matter of fact.

I'm not sure if it gets any easier with age, maybe, you would think that it would. But I think it also has an added irritant, I see my Aunt sad because she feels like she is the only one left from her friends, family and group, I think in some ways it effects her harder : (

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Guyver

So, yesterday my wife and I had to come to a hard place of loving and respectful detachment.  It was so freeing for me and partially freeing for her.  We had to come to a place where we realize that having given everything we have and finding that not enough we had to let go.  We had to give the person their right to live their life as they choose, even if we do not wish it.  At the same time, to continue in the suffering, continual drama, and emotional devastation is unhealthy to us.  We now have to live on because our time is not up.  We have each other and many people who love us and need us.  So we must go on and in doing so we have to detach from the situation.

PS.  When I say it was freeing for me....it doesn’t bring me joy.  It’s the saddest thing, but sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.  To quote the Fray.

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Jujo-jo
1 hour ago, Guyver said:

So, yesterday my wife and I had to come to a hard place of loving and respectful detachment.  It was so freeing for me and partially freeing for her.  We had to come to a place where we realize that having given everything we have and finding that not enough we had to let go.  We had to give the person their right to live their life as they choose, even if we do not wish it.  At the same time, to continue in the suffering, continual drama, and emotional devastation is unhealthy to us.  We now have to live on because our time is not up.  We have each other and many people who love us and need us.  So we must go on and in doing so we have to detach from the situation.

PS.  When I say it was freeing for me....it doesn’t bring me joy.  It’s the saddest thing, but sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.  To quote the Fray.

Sorry to hear that.

Going on together, under one roof but detached?

Or going on apart, parting ways?

Edited by Jujo-jo
If you dont mind me asking...

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