Adults automatically enrolled as organ donors

[Still Waters]

An opt-out organ donation scheme, known as Max and Keira’s law, will become law by spring, the Health Secretary has confirmed.

The majority of England’s 56 million population will automatically be enrolled as organ donors once the system comes into force on May 20.

The Government will ask MPs to approve that the system of deemed consent comes into force on May 20 on Tuesday and, if endorsed, adults in England will be considered to have agreed to donate their own organs when they die unless they explicitly state otherwise or are in an excluded group.

It is estimated that the opt-out method will lead to an additional 700 transplants each year by 2023.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-02-25/date-set-for-organ-donation-automatic-deemed-consent-in-england/

[WanderingFool0]

I am against opt-out anything, because one shouldn't be conscripted into something, without ones explicit and prior consent. I really don't like that under this law, people have to opt out to keep their organs secure. I am not against organ donation and think more people should volunteer, but I don't think they should be conscripted by the government to do so. I also find it annoying that often the most draconian and restrictive bills always come under the guise of dead children or grieving parents.

Edited February 25, 2020 by WanderingFool0
correction

[SHaYap]

My... what lovely eyes you have... 

~

[Duke Wellington]

2 hours ago, Still Waters said:

An opt-out organ donation scheme, known as Max and Keira’s law, will become law by spring, the Health Secretary has confirmed.

The majority of England’s 56 million population will automatically be enrolled as organ donors once the system comes into force on May 20.

The Government will ask MPs to approve that the system of deemed consent comes into force on May 20 on Tuesday and, if endorsed, adults in England will be considered to have agreed to donate their own organs when they die unless they explicitly state otherwise or are in an excluded group.

It is estimated that the opt-out method will lead to an additional 700 transplants each year by 2023.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-02-25/date-set-for-organ-donation-automatic-deemed-consent-in-england/

I already opted out about 5 years back.

I have weird beliefs including the idea that when I`m dead I might still be conscious and connected to my body. It sends chills down my spine contemplating how dead people might be aware their bodies are being raided for spare parts. Even worse, it might be agony for them if they can feel it.

Then there is the self-pollution angle. I suspect over the coming centuries scientists might discover how to recover dead people from their skeletons. I dont mean a regular clone or 3D print, I mean a quantum clone. One where non-local links between our remains and our minds allow our minds to be fully recovered. The idea I might not get brought back because they cannot dis-entangle me from someone else isn't worth it. In my opinion. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by RabidMongoose

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, WanderingFool0 said:

I am against opt-out anything, because one shouldn't be conscripted into something, without ones explicit and prior consent. I really don't like that under this law, people have to opt out to keep their organs secure. I am not against organ donation and think more people should volunteer, but I don't think they should be conscripted by the government to do so. I also find it annoying that often the most draconian and restrictive bills always come under the guise of dead children or grieving parents.

I agree totally, and I think its time for a new nationwide census.

In it they should ask everyone if they want their organs to be donated or not.

[WanderingFool0]

3 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

I agree totally, and I think its time for a new nationwide census.

In it they should ask everyone if they want their organs to be donated or not.

That would be good, but I am not sure the numbers that opt in would be much different, than the current opt in system now implemented through drivers licenses. At least in the US. I am not sure how England did it before this.

Edited February 25, 2020 by WanderingFool0

[Duke Wellington]

1 minute ago, WanderingFool0 said:

That would be good, but I am not sure the numbers that opt in would be much different, than the current opt in system now implemented through drivers licenses.

I realise many are non spiritual so dont have a problem with being an organ donor.

But to ride rough shot over every persons rights is bad. Many will object to being raided for spare parts for religious, moral, ethical, and philosophical reasons. I also find the idea of someone with my organs to be creepy and disturbing.

Its like going to Oxfam to buy some dead persons clothes.

[Setton]

38 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

I realise many are non spiritual so dont have a problem with being an organ donor.

But to ride rough shot over every persons rights is bad. Many will object to being raided for spare parts for religious, moral, ethical, and philosophical reasons. I also find the idea of someone with my organs to be creepy and disturbing.

Probably why you can still opt out... 

It doesn't affect anyone's rights as long as that option remains. 

As it stands now, I support this move but will be opting out. 

[aztek]

worst thing is, they remove your organs while you are still alive, no anestasia either.  i'm not letting anyone take anything out of me. 

but in any case, what beauty of a system you got, you are nothing but a parts bag as far as they are concerned, 

Edited February 25, 2020 by aztek

[L.A.T.1961]

One issue is who should benefit, if an individual opts out should they still get organs if they need them ?

As it stands if you opt out then your chances of a transplant still increase under the new system but without cost to you. 

Should those who opt out be put on a low priority list for a transplant ?

 

The question may become redundant in a few years once it is possible to grow organs in a dish for specific patients.   

[Kittens Are Jerks]

1 hour ago, aztek said:

worst thing is, they remove your organs while you are still alive, no anestasia either. 

That is complete nonsense. Doctors will not allow one person to die so that they can save another. Furthermore, people who have agreed to donate their organs are subjected to more rigorous tests to determine permanent death than those who have opted out. Organs are never removed from a still living person.

[aztek]

or maybe we could not threat symptoms to the points of organ failure, we won't need that many transplants if at all.  oh wait, no money in it, scrap it.

Edited February 25, 2020 by aztek

[aztek]

1 minute ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

. Organs are never removed from a still living person.

organs are almost always removed from ALIVE person, educate yourself

Edited February 25, 2020 by aztek

[Kittens Are Jerks]

1 minute ago, aztek said:

organs are almost always removed from ALIVE person, educate yourself

The living organ donation process is an entirely different matter and has nothing to do with the automatic organ donation enrollment being discussed here.

[aztek]

2 minutes ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

The living organ donation process is an entirely different matter and has nothing to do with the automatic organ donation enrollment being discussed here.

again, educate yourself, now YOU talking nonsense

Edited February 25, 2020 by aztek

[Kittens Are Jerks]

1 minute ago, aztek said:

again, educate yourself, now YOU talking nonsense

Organs cannot be procured until the donors are declared dead. Not sure where you're getting your information from but at this stage of the discussion, I'm inclined to believe that you're either reading too many tabloids, trolling, or both.

[aztek]

1 minute ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Organs cannot be procured until the donors are declared dead. .

bull crap, educate yourself, there are several  stages of "dead" 

Edited February 25, 2020 by aztek

[aztek]

for anyone who is interested to actual truth , not kitten's delusional  hate based trolling, read this.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/the-inconvenient-truth-about-organ-donations 

Quote

  September 19, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) - There has been growing concern over the past several years about increasingly aggressive measures undertaken to harvest human organs from dying patients. Dr. John Shea, a Toronto physician who has specialized in researching the issue, has just completed a report, Organ donation: The inconvenient truth, that sounds an alarm about the unethical or at least highly questionable practices of the organ transplant industry. The article is published in the September issue of Catholic Insight magazine.

dying  patients, not dead. organs are mostly useless when body starts decaying, even kids know it, but apparently not kitten.

Quote

 Shea points out, "There is no consensus on diagnostic criteria for brain death. They are the subject of intense international debate. Various sets of neurological criteria for the diagnosis of brain death are used. A person could be diagnosed as brain dead if one set is used and not be diagnosed as brain dead if another is used."  It depends on what hospital or which doctor is involved in a particular case. Some form of anesthesia is needed to prevent the donor from moving during removal of the organs. The donor’s blood pressure may rise during surgical removal. Similar changes take place during ordinary surgical procedures only if the depth of anesthesia is inadequate. Body movement and a rise in blood pressure are due to the skin incision and surgical procedure if the donor is not anesthetized. Is it not reasonable to consider that the donor may feel pain? In some cases, drugs to paralyze muscle contraction are given to prevent the donor from moving during removal of the organs. Yet, sometimes no anesthesia is administered to the donor. Movement by the donor is distressing to doctors and nurses. Perhaps this is another reason why anesthesia and drugs to paralyze the muscles are usually given."

 

[aztek]

another inconvenient truth,  kidney donors need transplant themselves after 5-10 years, or have others serious issues due to that,  our kidneys are not identical, both filter blood, but they do other separate functions as well, iirc left kidney controls your calcium levels, too much calcium,  and you end with stiff arteries, and blood pressure that leads to many other problems,right  controls ph balance, if that does not work properly, we also get serious health issues,  everything in our bodies is there for a reason, we don't have spare parts.  but most doctors won't tell you that, it is their profit,

Edited February 25, 2020 by aztek

[Festina]

For me there  is something very unsettling about the idea of organ transplantation.  I will never have an organ transplant, nor will not ‘donate’ my organs.

When my Time is up — >>>>>>>> I’m outa here!   Incineration of the form as well — Onward to the next assignment!

 

 

[acute]

3 hours ago, WanderingFool0 said:

I am not sure how England did it before this.

At present, potential donors have to opt in. The problem is, not enough people are doing so.

[Setton]

2 hours ago, aztek said:

worst thing is, they remove your organs while you are still alive, no anestasia either.  i'm not letting anyone take anything out of me. 

 

Yeah, no they don't. 

Quote

but in any case, what beauty of a system you got, you are nothing but a parts bag as far as they are concerned, 

Except that you can opt out easily. All this does is mean those that would currently opt in but don't get round to filling in the paperwork still have their wishes met. 

40 minutes ago, aztek said:

for anyone who is interested to actual truth , not kitten's delusional  hate based trolling, read this.

You know Toronto isn't in the UK? 

Genuinely asking, it would make sense if your geography matched your knowledge in every other field. 

[Setton]

20 minutes ago, aztek said:

another inconvenient truth,  kidney donors need transplant themselves after 5-10 years, or have others serious issues due to that,  our kidneys are not identical, both filter blood, but they do other separate functions as well, iirc left kidney controls your calcium levels, too much calcium,  and you end with stiff arteries, and blood pressure that leads to many other problems, left controls ph balance, if that does not work properly, we also get serious health issues,  everything in our bodies is there for a reason, we don't have spare parts.  but most doctors won't tell you that, it is their profit,

Also, not true. 

But when have you ever let that get in the way of a bad story? 

[Festina]

3 hours ago, aztek said:

worst thing is, they remove your organs while you are still alive, no anestasia either.  i'm not letting anyone take anything out of me. 

but in any case, what beauty of a system you got, you are nothing but a parts bag as far as they are concerned, 

https://www.lifeissues.org/2015/10/surprising-realities-of-organ-donation-and-brain-death/

Doctors were eager to harvest her organs, but Jenny was not brain dead. After three weeks she woke up. Over the next year she fully recovered. Afterward she became a nurse, inspired during the coma by some of the nurses who cared for her. “I was the recipient of good nursing care and not so good,” she said. “I wanted to be one of the good ones.”

[aztek]

20 minutes ago, Festina said:

https://www.lifeissues.org/2015/10/surprising-realities-of-organ-donation-and-brain-death/

Doctors were eager to harvest her organs, but Jenny was not brain dead. After three weeks she woke up. Over the next year she fully recovered. Afterward she became a nurse, inspired during the coma by some of the nurses who cared for her. “I was the recipient of good nursing care and not so good,” she said. “I wanted to be one of the good ones.”

i applaud her attitude, if i went thru her experience i'd become a lawyer, and sue those doctors for every penny they have, or will have, she is a better person than me.

Edited February 25, 2020 by aztek