North Korea Now Say's it Has Nukes!

[Babs]

Granted, Bush and company probably shouldn't have said "axis of evil" and things like that, but to think that is the reason N.Korea is going nuclear is absurd. N.Korea going nuclear is get more concessions from the U.S. and possibly as a deterrent from a possibly U.S. attack. That being said, Bush shouldn't be blamed for what N.Korea does. The most frightening thing, in my opinion, is how poor N.Korea is, and whether they would proliferate nuclear technology/weapons to terrorists for financial gain.

Personally I think the leaders of S.Korea are stupid. S.Korea is slightly larger, with a higher population, and many times richer than N.Korea. Why is S.Korea so weak??

483646[/snapback]

Kim uses the current political scene to get what he wants. I wonder why S. Korea hasn't done anything too. Baffling.

[Super Pancake]

Personally I think the leaders of S.Korea are stupid. S.Korea is slightly larger, with a higher population, and many times richer than N.Korea. Why is S.Korea so weak??

483646[/snapback]

You guys know were still at war with N korea (the korean war) that's why there still building there army and weapons program, Were in a cease fire with N korea but no treaty has been signed for more then 50 yrs. N korea wants Bi-lateral talks because its nobodies business becuase its about N. korea and the U.S. It's like a baby cold war Communism versus Capitalism

S. korea doesnt bother building it's army because the U.S. is still patroling the N. korea and S. korea border. And I believe S.korea don't think the N. koreans will attake them. Frankly there tired of the U.S. calling the N.koreans the enemy, and they can't let the U.S. army leave the border because the U.S. got no peace treaty and the U.S. wants no nukes in there hands.

[bathory]

You guys know were still at war

it was a UN action...so doesn't that mean the UN is still at war? lol

[gollum]

N.K. are using there nuclear arsenal as a deterent, nothing else.

The chinese will be putting pressure on the N.K. from the side-lines.

China and U.S "friendship" has grown astonomically in the past 5 years. There's no way China will allow the N.K. to mess with that. No way.

(Just my opinion on it).

[Super Pancake]

it was a UN action...so doesn't that mean the UN is still at war? lol

483693[/snapback]

No N. Korea was a communist nation and during the Cold war the U.S. is widely known to support regions of the world who oppose communism including dictators.

The U.S. answered the plea to help the S. koreans (Which I think was a lie because the S. Koreans show know will to fight for freedom) that it wanted to be a democratic capitalist government. The U.S. came in and tried to drive out the communist from the country but failed. Now there is a cease fire. If you search the history of the Korean war (AkA the forgotten war) you will find out.

[Babs]

Lottie, i think the more we allow people to have nukes the more dangerous the world becomes and the larger the stockpiles of WMD's become that we all have to get and the larger escalation and a cold war comes in again....therefore, we have to restrict who can get them

483002[/snapback]

The world only becomes more dangerous when there are goverments telling countries that they do not have the right to own WMD. And this is what is happening right now with Iran, with N.Korea. I hate WMD's they scare the hell out of me but what scares me more is people like Bush who are on this power trip making a situation a hundred times worse than it needs to be.

As I said before everyone else has nukes so why not these countries. They are no more or no less likely to start a nuclear war with them than anyone else. Isn't it afterall in the goverments worldwide interests to make sure that this planet is not wiped out because where would the billions of dollars come from then?

483011[/snapback]

On the face of what you say sounds logical and I would go for that... and have, in fact, thought of that. But then I get a little nervous ... 'thinking', I can't trust countries like N. Korea.

(Especially with a psychopath/sociopath at the helm...they are notorious liars )

[Hotoke]

not even ghandi could keep his temper if he ever had a conversation with kim yong ill

[Fluffybunny]

(Especially with a psychopath/sociopath at the helm...they are notorious liars  )

Yes they are...

[Babs]

(Especially with a psychopath/sociopath at the helm...they are notorious liars  )

Yes they are...

483714[/snapback]

If you knew more about sociopathy you wouldn't make a statement like this. I am assuming you are talking about Bush.

[Fluffybunny]

You know what they say about assume right?

[gollum]

A factsheet on North Korea as of 1 January 2005 (Just so we are all working off the same page)

Background:

An independent kingdom under Chinese suzerainty for most of the past millennium, Korea was occupied by Japan in 1905 following the Russo-Japanese War; five years later, Japan formally annexed the entire peninsula. Following World War II, Korea was split, with the northern half coming under Soviet-sponsored Communist domination. After failing in the Korean War (1950-53) to conquer the US-backed republic in the southern portion by force, North Korea under its founder President KIM Il Sung adopted a policy of ostensible diplomatic and economic "self-reliance" as a check against excessive Soviet or Communist Chinese influence and molded political, economic, and military policies around the core ideological objective of eventual unification of Korea under Pyongyang's control. KIM's son, the current ruler KIM Jong Il, was officially designated as KIM's future successor in 1980 and assumed a growing political and managerial role until his father's death in 1994, when he assumed full power without opposition. After decades of economic mismanagement and resource misallocation, the North since the mid-1990s has relied heavily on international food aid to feed its population while continuing to expend resources to maintain an army of about 1 million. North Korea's long-range missile development and research into nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons and massive conventional armed forces are of major concern to the international community. In December 2002, following revelations it was pursuing a nuclear weapons program based on enriched uranium in violation of a 1994 agreement with the United States to freeze and ultimately dismantle its existing plutonium-based program, North Korea expelled monitors from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), and in January 2003 declared its withdrawal from the international Non-Proliferation Treaty. In mid-2003 Pyongyang announced it had completed the reprocessing of spent nuclear fuel rods (to extract weapons-grade plutonium) and was developing a "nuclear deterrent." Since August 2003 North Korea has participated in six-party talks with the United States, China, South Korea, Japan, and Russia to resolve the stalemate over its nuclear programs.

Geography Korea, North

Location:

Eastern Asia, northern half of the Korean Peninsula bordering the Korea Bay and the Sea of Japan, between China and South Korea

Geographic coordinates:

40 00 N, 127 00 E

Map references:

Asia

Area:

total: 120,540 sq km

land: 120,410 sq km

water: 130 sq km

Area - comparative:

slightly smaller than Mississippi

Land boundaries:

total: 1,673 km

border countries: China 1,416 km, South Korea 238 km, Russia 19 km

Coastline:

2,495 km

Maritime claims:

territorial sea: 12 nm

exclusive economic zone: 200 nm

note: military boundary line 50 nm in the Sea of Japan and the exclusive economic zone limit in the Yellow Sea where all foreign vessels and aircraft without permission are banned

Climate:

temperate with rainfall concentrated in summer

Terrain:

mostly hills and mountains separated by deep, narrow valleys; coastal plains wide in west, discontinuous in east

Elevation extremes:

lowest point: Sea of Japan 0 m

highest point: Paektu-san 2,744 m

Natural resources:

coal, lead, tungsten, zinc, graphite, magnesite, iron ore, copper, gold, pyrites, salt, fluorspar, hydropower

Land use:

arable land: 20.76%

permanent crops: 2.49%

other: 76.75% (2001)

Irrigated land:

14,600 sq km (1998 est.)

Natural hazards:

late spring droughts often followed by severe flooding; occasional typhoons during the early fall

Environment - current issues:

water pollution; inadequate supplies of potable water; water-borne disease; deforestation; soil erosion and degradation

Environment - international agreements:

party to: Antarctic Treaty, Biodiversity, Climate Change, Environmental Modification, Ozone Layer Protection, Ship Pollution

signed, but not ratified: Law of the Sea

Geography - note:

strategic location bordering China, South Korea, and Russia; mountainous interior is isolated and sparsely populated

People Korea, North Top of Page

Population:

22,697,553 (July 2004 est.)

Age structure:

0-14 years: 24.6% (male 2,836,991; female 2,755,127)

15-64 years: 67.8% (male 7,575,590; female 7,812,878)

65 years and over: 7.6% (male 583,463; female 1,133,504) (2004 est.)

Median age:

total: 31.4 years

male: 30.2 years

female: 32.6 years (2004 est.)

Population growth rate:

0.98% (2004 est.)

Birth rate:

16.77 births/1,000 population (2004 est.)

Death rate:

6.99 deaths/1,000 population (2004 est.)

Net migration rate:

0 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2004 est.)

Sex ratio:

at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female

under 15 years: 1.03 male(s)/female

15-64 years: 0.97 male(s)/female

65 years and over: 0.52 male(s)/female

total population: 0.94 male(s)/female (2004 est.)

Infant mortality rate:

total: 24.84 deaths/1,000 live births

male: 26.59 deaths/1,000 live births

female: 23 deaths/1,000 live births (2004 est.)

Life expectancy at birth:

total population: 71.08 years

male: 68.38 years

female: 73.92 years (2004 est.)

Total fertility rate:

2.2 children born/woman (2004 est.)

HIV/AIDS - adult prevalence rate:

NA

HIV/AIDS - people living with HIV/AIDS:

NA

HIV/AIDS - deaths:

NA

Nationality:

noun: Korean(s)

adjective: Korean

Ethnic groups:

racially homogeneous; there is a small Chinese community and a few ethnic Japanese

Religions:

traditionally Buddhist and Confucianist, some Christian and syncretic Chondogyo (Religion of the Heavenly Way)

note: autonomous religious activities now almost nonexistent; government-sponsored religious groups exist to provide illusion of religious freedom

Languages:

Korean

Literacy:

definition: age 15 and over can read and write

total population: 99%

male: 99%

female: 99%

Government Korea, North

Country name:

conventional long form: Democratic People's Republic of Korea

conventional short form: North Korea

local long form: Choson-minjujuui-inmin-konghwaguk

local short form: none

note: the North Koreans generally use the term "Choson" to refer to their country

abbreviation: DPRK

Government type:

Communist state one-man dictatorship

Capital:

Pyongyang

Administrative divisions:

9 provinces (do, singular and plural) and 4 municipalities (si, singular and plural)

: provinces: Chagang-do (Chagang), Hamgyong-bukto (North Hamgyong), Hamgyong-namdo (South Hamgyong), Hwanghae-bukto (North Hwanghae), Hwanghae-namdo (South Hwanghae), Kangwon-do (Kangwon), P'yongan-bukto (North P'yongan), P'yongan-namdo (South P'yongan), Yanggang-do (Yanggang)

: municipalites: Kaesong-si (Kaesong), Najin Sonbong-si (Najin), Namp'o-si (Namp'o), P'yongyang-si (Pyongyang)

Independence:

15 August 1945 (from Japan)

National holiday:

Founding of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK), 9 September (1948)

Constitution:

adopted 1948, completely revised 27 December 1972, revised again in April 1992 and September 1998

Legal system:

based on German civil law system with Japanese influences and Communist legal theory; no judicial review of legislative acts; has not accepted compulsory ICJ jurisdiction

Suffrage:

17 years of age; universal

Executive branch:

chief of state: KIM Jong Il (since July 1994); note - on 3 September 2003, rubberstamp Supreme People's Assembly (SPA) reelected KIM Jong Il Chairman of the National Defense Commission, a position accorded nation's "highest administrative authority"; SPA reelected KIM Yong Nam President of its Presidium also with responsibility of representing state and receiving diplomatic credentials; SPA appointed PAK Pong Ju Premier

head of government: Premier PAK Pong Ju (since 3 September 2003); Vice Premiers KWAK Pom Gi (since 5 September 1998), JON Sung Hun (since 3 September 2003), RO Tu Chol (since 3 September 2003)

cabinet: Cabinet (Naegak), members, except for the Minister of People's Armed Forces, are appointed by the SPA

elections: election last held in September 2003 (next to be held in September 2008)

election results: KIM Jong Il and KIM Yong Nam were only nominees for positions and ran unopposed

Legislative branch:

unicameral Supreme People's Assembly or Ch'oego Inmin Hoeui (687 seats; members elected by popular vote to serve five-year terms)

elections: last held 3 August 2003 (next to be held in August 2008)

election results: percent of vote by party - NA; seats by party - NA; the KWP approves a list of candidates who are elected without opposition; some seats are held by minor parties

Judicial branch:

Central Court (judges are elected by the Supreme People's Assembly)

Political parties and leaders:

major party - Korean Workers' Party or KWP [KIM Jong Il, general secretary]; minor parties - Chondoist Chongu Party [RYU Mi Yong, chairwoman] (under KWP control); Social Democratic Party [KIM Yong Dae, chairman] (under KWP control)

Political pressure groups and leaders:

none

International organization participation:

ARF, FAO, G-77, ICAO, ICRM, IFAD, IFRCS, IHO, IMO, IOC, ISO, ITU, NAM, UN, UNCTAD, UNESCO, UNIDO, UPU, WFTU, WHO, WIPO, WMO, WToO

Diplomatic representation in the US:

none; North Korea has a Permanent Mission to the UN in New York

Diplomatic representation from the US:

none (Swedish Embassy in Pyongyang represents the US as consular protecting power)

Flag description:

three horizontal bands of blue (top), red (triple width), and blue; the red band is edged in white; on the hoist side of the red band is a white disk with a red five-pointed star

Economy Korea, North

Economy - overview:

North Korea, one of the world's most centrally planned and isolated economies, faces desperate economic conditions. Industrial capital stock is nearly beyond repair as a result of years of underinvestment and spare parts shortages. Industrial and power output have declined in parallel. The nation has suffered its tenth year of food shortages because of a lack of arable land, collective farming, weather-related problems, and chronic shortages of fertilizer and fuel. Massive international food aid deliveries have allowed the regime to escape mass starvation since 1995-96, but the population remains the victim of prolonged malnutrition and deteriorating living conditions. Large-scale military spending eats up resources needed for investment and civilian consumption. In 2003, heightened political tensions with key donor countries and general donor fatigue threatened the flow of desperately needed food aid and fuel aid as well. Black market prices continued to rise following the increase in official prices and wages in the summer of 2002, leaving some vulnerable groups, such as the elderly and unemployed, less able to buy goods. The regime, however, relaxed restrictions on farmers' market activities in spring 2003, leading to an expansion of market activity.

GDP:

purchasing power parity - $29.58 billion (2003 est.)

GDP - real growth rate:

1% (2003 est.)

GDP - per capita:

purchasing power parity - $1,300 (2003 est.)

GDP - composition by sector:

agriculture: 30.2%

industry: 33.8%

services: 36% (2002 est.)

Population below poverty line:

NA

Household income or consumption by percentage share:

lowest 10%: NA

highest 10%: NA

Inflation rate (consumer prices):

NA (2003 est.)

Labor force:

9.6 million

Labor force - by occupation:

agricultural 36%, nonagricultural 64%

Unemployment rate:

NA (2003)

Budget:

revenues: NA

expenditures: NA, including capital expenditures of NA

Agriculture - products:

rice, corn, potatoes, soybeans, pulses; cattle, pigs, pork, eggs

Industries:

military products; machine building, electric power, chemicals; mining (coal, iron ore, magnesite, graphite, copper, zinc, lead, and precious metals), metallurgy; textiles, food processing; tourism

Industrial production growth rate:

NA

Electricity - production:

30.01 billion kWh (2001)

Electricity - consumption:

27.91 billion kWh (2001)

Electricity - exports:

0 kWh (2001)

Electricity - imports:

0 kWh (2001)

Oil - production:

0 bbl/day (2001 est.)

Oil - consumption:

85,000 bbl/day (2001 est.)

Oil - exports:

NA (2001)

Oil - imports:

NA (2001)

Exports:

$1.044 billion f.o.b. (2002 est.)

Exports - commodities:

minerals, metallurgical products, manufactures (including armaments); textiles and fishery products

Exports - partners:

South Korea 28.5%, China 28.4%, Japan 24.7% (2002)

Imports:

$2.042 billion c.i.f. (2002 est.)

Imports - commodities:

petroleum, coking coal, machinery and equipment; textiles, grain

Imports - partners:

China 39.7%, Thailand 14.6%, Japan 11.2%, Germany 7.6%, South Korea 6.2% (2002)

Debt - external:

$12 billion (1996 est.)

Economic aid - recipient:

$NA; note - over $133 million in food aid through the World Food Program in 2003 plus additional aid from bilateral donors and non-governmental organizations

Currency:

North Korean won (KPW)

Currency code:

KPW

Exchange rates:

official: North Korean won per US dollar - 150 (December 2002), 2.15 (December 2001), 2.15 (May 1994), 2.13 (May 1992), 2.14 (September 1991), 2.1 (January 1990); market: North Korean won per US dollar - 300-600 (December 2002), 200 (December 2001)

Fiscal year:

calendar year

Communications Korea, North

Telephones - main lines in use:

1.1 million (2001)

Telephones - mobile cellular:

NA

Telephone system:

general assessment: NA

domestic: NA

international: country code - 850; satellite earth stations - 1 Intelsat (Indian Ocean) and 1 Russian (Indian Ocean region); other international connections through Moscow and Beijing

Radio broadcast stations:

AM 16, FM 14, shortwave 12 (1999)

Television broadcast stations:

38 (1999)

Internet country code:

.kp

Internet users:

NA

Transportation Korea, North

Railways:

total: 5,214 km

standard gauge: 5,214 km 1.435-m gauge (3,500 km electrified) (2003)

Highways:

total: 31,200 km

paved: 1,997 km

unpaved: 29,203 km (1999 est.)

Waterways:

2,250 km

note: most navigable only by small craft (2004)

Pipelines:

oil 154 km (2004)

Ports and harbors:

Ch'ongjin, Haeju, Hungnam (Hamhung), Kimch'aek, Kosong, Najin, Namp'o, Sinuiju, Songnim, Sonbong (formerly Unggi), Ungsang, Wonsan

Merchant marine:

total: 203 ships (1,000 GRT or over) 921,577 GRT/1,339,929 DWT

by type: bulk 6, cargo 166, combination bulk 2, container 3, liquefied gas 1, livestock carrier 3, multi-functional large load carrier 1, passenger/cargo 1, petroleum tanker 11, refrigerated cargo 6, roll on/roll off 2, short-sea/passenger 1

foreign-owned: Albania 1, Belize 1, Bolivia 1, Cambodia 3, Cyprus 1, Egypt 3, Germany 1, Greece 4, Italy 1, Lebanon 2, Marshall Islands 1, Pakistan 1, Portugal 1, Romania 8, Saint Kitts and Nevis 1, Syria 9, Tanzania 1, Tunisia 1, Turkey 5, Ukraine 2, United States 3

registered in other countries: 4 (2003 est.)

Airports:

78 (2003 est.)

Airports - with paved runways:

total: 35

over 3,047 m: 3

2,438 to 3,047 m: 23

1,524 to 2,437 m: 5

914 to 1,523 m: 1

under 914 m: 3 (2003 est.)

Airports - with unpaved runways:

total: 43

2,438 to 3,047 m: 1

1,524 to 2,437 m: 20

914 to 1,523 m: 14

under 914 m: 8 (2003 est.)

Heliports:

19 (2003 est.)

Military Korea, North

Military branches:

Korean People's Army (includes Army, Navy, Air Force), Civil Security Forces

Military manpower - military age and obligation:

17 years of age (2004 est.)

Military manpower - availability:

males age 15-49: 6,181,038 (2004 est.)

Military manpower - fit for military service:

males age 15-49: 3,694,855 (2004 est.)

Military manpower - reaching military age annually:

males: 189,014 (2004 est.)

Military expenditures - dollar figure:

$5,217.4 million (FY02)

Military expenditures - percent of GDP:

22.9% (2003)

Transnational Issues Korea, North

Disputes - international:

with China, certain islands in Yalu and Tumen rivers are in uncontested dispute; a section of boundary around Paektu-san (mountain) is indefinite; China has been attempting to stop mass illegal migration of North Koreans escaping famine, economic privation, and oppression into northern China; Military Demarcation Line within the 4-km wide Demilitarized Zone has separated North from South Korea since 1953; periodic maritime disputes with South Korea

Refugees and internally displaced persons:

IDPs: 50,000-250,000 (government repression and famine) (2004)

Illicit drugs:

for years, from the 1970's into the 2000's, citizens of the Democratic People's Republic of (North) Korea (DPRK), many of them diplomatic employees of the government, were apprehended abroad while trafficking in narcotics, including two in Turkey in December 2004; in recent years, police investigations in Taiwan and Japan have linked North Korea to large illicit shipments of heroin and methamphetamine, including an attempt by the North Korean merchant ship Pong Su to deliver 150 kg of heroin to Australia in April 2003; all indications point to North Korea emerging as an important regional source of illicit drugs targeting markets in Japan, Taiwan, the Russian Far East, and China

[CopeML]

Ummm easy on the Bush Bashing he still has 4 more year's of pure glory if you ask me. Maybe we will get luck and Kim Jong will die of a heart attack.

[gollum]

Ummm easy on the Bush    Bashing he still has 4 more year's of pure glory if you ask me.  Maybe we will get luck and Kim Jong    will die of a heart attack.

483725[/snapback]

....Or run away to China, which is a distinct possibility.

[Babs]

You know what they say about assume right?

483719[/snapback]

But you are wrong. We all know that you don't like Bush, fluffy, but you are darned lucky to have him as your president.

[Babs]

Ummm easy on the Bush    Bashing he still has 4 more year's of pure glory if you ask me.  Maybe we will get luck and Kim Jong    will die of a heart attack.

483725[/snapback]

You rock_ copenjack!

[CopeML]

Re-edited again for clarifacation purposes, Thank you Gollum for that nice fact sheet we can better understand what a typical North Korean is like and how feared they can be based on their average bio sheet. And Last and not least in this post is cheer's to President Bush who is commited to making the world a better place, go Bush!

Edited February 11, 2005 by copenjackenhagen

[CopeML]

Don't Read This! Edited February 11, 2005 by copenjackenhagen

[Fluffybunny]

You know what they say about assume right?

483719[/snapback]

But you are wrong. We all know that you don't like Bush, fluffy, but you are darned lucky to have him as your president.

483729[/snapback]

Can we add mindreading to your list of skills?

You do not know who or what I was referring to, but as they say "Guilty conscience needs no accuser..."

You do not know what I am referring to.

[gollum]

No sorry I hope you don't think that I was dissing you sorry about that.    No it just took awhile to read that was all.

483736[/snapback]

Apology accepted, no hard fellings.

[Babs]

No sorry I hope you don't think that I was dissing you sorry about that.     No it just took awhile to read that was all.

483736[/snapback]

Apology accepted, no hard fellings.

483742[/snapback]

Gollum....This is disgraceful, you should apologize for calling copenjack a name.

This is terrible. You call copenjack a name and this poor new fella doesn't know what you're talking about as it came out of nowhere. You misunderstood what copenjack said, which was a very nice comment.... and you took it wrong. As you sometimes do because you seem to be hostile to people that don't have your views.

And Fluffy should have warned you for breaking the rules, but he didn't. Why doesn't Fluffy stop gollum from calling other people names, when he would certainly stop me? I guess if you have the same views as Fluffy it's okay to call people 'foul' names.

I see, now, that the whole thing has been taken off the board. No reprimand for gollum, looks like a cover-up. Where is SaRuMan?

I guess, when gollum said, back a few threads, that "rules were made to be broken"_ he was right....at least gollum can break them.

I am really disappointed in you Fluffy. It seems that those who have Fluffy's views get the service here. Things just seem to disappear.

I request that SaRuMan come and look at this mess.

[Babs]

Don't Read This!

483736[/snapback]

Why is this here, now, in big red print?

[Saru]

Sorry Babs, I can't be available 24/7, I was having dinner when you e-mailed me about this.

Unfortunately all trace of the comments in question have been removed, so I can't really comment on their suitability.

However there is no 'conspiracy' going on, if the comments were removed then it's because they were inapropriate as you suggest.

No reprimand for gollum, looks like a cover-up. I guess, when gollum said, back a few threads, that "rules were made to be broken"_ he was right....at least gollum can break them.

How do you know that nothing is being done ? We don't publicise everything we do behind the scenes.

Rest assured those responsible will be dealt with accordingly, if that hasn't happened already.

[Guest Lottie]

I can't believe I just read "Because everyone has em" being used as a valid argument for widespread Nuclear armament and that people are blaming Bush for N. Korea. Talk about unexplained mysteries.

I guess this is aimed at me. Maybe you should read what I am saying...

WHOA! Lottie. Bush isn't a sociopath. (Sometimes you seem so level headed)

Let me just clarify this as I did with Homer. I meant this as an example...

What I was putting across was that N.Korea isn't the only country who has an egotistical, power hungry, control freak in control. Bush was an example, a good example,  tis all, although all goverments are the same in many ways.

[Celumnaz]

Yes, yours and

But I think what the world needs to realize is that everyone is going to get nuclear technology sooner or later - depriving them from research is depriving and endangering oneself.

but Bush delegates... power hungry people don't usually do that, they micromanage more often than not... like Gore... or Kerry... They do things like have bi-lateral talks with N.Korea instead of the 6 nation talks Bush is insisting on.... but to blame N.Korea on Bush at all is insane-o in itself...

Edit: Not to say Lottie blames Bush for everything... responding to more than just Lottie's comments...

Edit: having a good laugh that people need to make disclaimers, but they do

Edited February 11, 2005 by Celumnaz

[Babs]

Thank you, SaRuMan....

When Fluffy didn't warn gollum about his foul language, I did assume it was let go. Fluffy has warned others before using foul language and me, too, even when I use the word 'coward'. And, when he asks me not to use the word coward, he does this publicly. So, when he didn't tell gollum to stop, I assumed he didn't tell gollum at all.

When the entire matter disappeared from the screen I did get suspicious.

I hope everything will be worked out. As you say everything is gone......who took it? I hope the person that took it off the screen is, in fact, dealing with the situation and not letting something as serious as this go. I have seen gollum or wunarmdscissor use too many foul words and everyone lets it go. It's just not right.

I hope copenjackhagen will just overlook this....and continue his thread. It is a great thread.