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19_Kilo

Neurologist Experiences Heaven during NDE

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Helen of Annoy
46 minutes ago, joc said:

I'm not 'assuming' anything.    My perspective IS more credible than yours!  No brag just fact!

ce0e2ab710072e4eeb9a5dd8d6fe9569.jpg

 

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joc
2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

ce0e2ab710072e4eeb9a5dd8d6fe9569.jpg

 

The Truth is...they are both Genius and they both knew it.  And...I don't believe Einstein even said that...he may have...but internet quotes are seldom accurate.

Besides that...Trump is more like Ford than Einstein.  Ford was illiterate but as he told a judge once...I have a row of buttons on my desk...any question I need answered I can push a button.

...and the truth is also that Trump IS really really smart...

Edited by joc
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Festina
11 hours ago, joc said:

 

Thousands of people...tens of thousands of people have experienced 'something' as a result of NDE.

Because of the high volume of personal anecdote... a logical thinking person should conclude that there is a correlation between bizarre hallucinations and NDE.  It's been widely discussed as to what causes these hallucinations.  

An illogical thinking person concludes that the Consciousness is immortal and separate from the brain and body.  The Evidence is The Experience.  The Experience is Hallucination.  Therefore...the Evidence is Hallucination.  

The Conclusion:  Many people hallucinate upon regaining consciousness and remember it as being real.  

 

Don’t be a Ninny or I’ll have to come over there. Boo!

After  I had my very short OBE, something I knew nothing about before the event occurred I started talking to peeps about the subject, mostly strangers.

My painter who was 65 at the time said she had spontaneous OBEs as a youth.  They stopped when she was 14.  I mentioned it to another older lady as well, a stranger, she was not an old hippy nor did she do drugs — an ordinary grandmotherly type, wife of a wheat farmer.    She said she had them as well in her youth and our conversation was the first time she had ever discussed them with anyone.  I wonder how many people are affected by this and are afraid to speak out lest they be thought a lunatic.

Spank, spank, ‘Safety Man’.  :yes:

 

 

Edited by Festina
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Festina
20 hours ago, Tuco's Gas said:

In a bit of good news and "I told you so" bragging rights for believers, former atheist and Harvard Neurosurgeon Dr Eben Alexander claims he is now a believer! This, after glimpsing Heaven--replete with Angels and puffy pink clouds--during his own personal Near Death Experience.

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/eben-alexander-harvard-neurosurgeon-proof-of-heaven-afterlife-coma_n_1951475

I read Alexander’s book a few years ago.

And this one as well...Anita was a believing Hindu at the time and I believe she still is.  

Dying To Be Me

She was cured of her cancer after the event.  Very interesting read. 

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12291050-dying-to-be-me

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19_Kilo
Just now, Festina said:

I read Alexander’s book a few years ago.

And this one as well...Anita was a believing Hindu at the time and I believe she still is.  

Dying To Be Me

She was cured of her cancer after the event.  Very interesting read. 

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12291050-dying-to-be-me

Thanks, 'tina...I'll check it out tonight.

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Festina
10 minutes ago, Tuco's Gas said:

Thanks, 'tina...I'll check it out tonight.

Here is another account from a Physician.  She was reluctant to share for fear of losing license to practice medicine.  

https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1gillian_m_nde.html

snips...

What life changes occurred in your life after your experience? Moderate changes in my life Moderate changes in my life. I have shared my experience with colleagues despite the fact that it could result in professional criticism or concerns about my sanity and ability to practice medicine. In fact, they have been amazingly supportive and have been quite open to discussing the possibility of life after ‘death’. The whole experience (my first hospitalization, procedures) has made me a better doctor. The NDE has made me a better person. I have less fear overall, and feel that I can now experience a different level of material existence, now that the fear of death has been laid to rest. 
 

Have your relationships changed specifically because of your experience? Yes Yes Some folks (family mostly) look disturbed when I talk about my experience. You quickly learn who is open to discussing it and who isn't. Such a profound experience requires discussion, though, or at least sharing. 

 

Edited by Festina
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Festina
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Could it be that you're afraid to doubt that heaven doesn't exist, so you, like others "attack" non-believers? 

I don’t attack nonbelievers as I was one myself. But one must be specific about the definition of religious belief and non  

Ponder on this — humans created religions.

According to numerous NDE accounts there appears to be no religion in the afterlife — just us — All of Us. 

 

097BE607-F368-4EEA-858F-A74C9118124E.jpeg

Edited by Festina
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joc
Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Festina said:

Don’t be a Ninny or I’ll have to come over there. Boo!

After  I had my very short OBE, something I knew nothing about before the event occurred I started talking to peeps about the subject, mostly strangers.

My painter who was 65 at the time said she had spontaneous OBEs as a youth.  They stopped when she was 14.  I mentioned it to another older lady as well, a stranger, she was not an old hippy nor did she do drugs — an ordinary grandmotherly type, wife of a wheat farmer.    She said she had them as well in her youth and our conversation was the first time she had ever discussed them with anyone.  I wonder how many people are affected by this and are afraid to speak out lest they be thought a lunatic.

Spank, spank, ‘Safety Man’.  :yes:

 

 

As far as I know...OBE and NDE are not the same thing...however, both could involve hallucinations created by the mind for various reasons.  As has been discussed previously in another thread, small amounts of DMT have been found in spinal fluid, and since spinal fluid is also found in the brain it is logical to think that possibly DMT is also in the brain.  

Some folks have too much of some chemicals and too little of other chemicals in the brain.  Not my hypothesis, but rather, just thinking out loud that it is possible that both OBE and NDE have as their root cause an overabundance of one chemical or another.... possibly even...DMT.

Edited by joc
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Festina
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, joc said:

As far as I know...OBE and NDE are not the same thing...however, both could involve hallucinations created by the mind for various reasons.  As has been discussed previously in another thread, small amounts of DMT have been found in spinal fluid, and since spinal fluid is also found in the brain it is logical to think that possibly DMT is also in the brain.  

Some folks have too much of some chemicals and too little of other chemicals in the brain.  Not my hypothesis, but rather, just thinking out loud that it is possible that both OBE and NDE have as their root cause and overabundance of one chemical or another.... possibly even...DMT.

 

F390F363-78F7-4E97-B48A-DF628FC89CB5.jpeg

:wub:

 

Edited by Festina
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Festina
8 minutes ago, joc said:

As far as I know...OBE and NDE are not the same thing...however, both could involve hallucinations created by the mind for various reasons.  As has been discussed previously in another thread, small amounts of DMT have been found in spinal fluid, and since spinal fluid is also found in the brain it is logical to think that possibly DMT is also in the brain.  

Some folks have too much of some chemicals and too little of other chemicals in the brain.  Not my hypothesis, but rather, just thinking out loud that it is possible that both OBE and NDE have as their root cause and overabundance of one chemical or another.... possibly even...DMT.

Do chemicals and such in the body create realities? Yes — Joy, misery, creativity and illness. 

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19_Kilo
32 minutes ago, Festina said:

Here is another account from a Physician.  She was reluctant to share for fear of losing license to practice medicine.  

https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1gillian_m_nde.html

snips...

What life changes occurred in your life after your experience? Moderate changes in my life Moderate changes in my life. I have shared my experience with colleagues despite the fact that it could result in professional criticism or concerns about my sanity and ability to practice medicine. In fact, they have been amazingly supportive and have been quite open to discussing the possibility of life after ‘death’. The whole experience (my first hospitalization, procedures) has made me a better doctor. The NDE has made me a better person. I have less fear overall, and feel that I can now experience a different level of material existence, now that the fear of death has been laid to rest. 
 

Have your relationships changed specifically because of your experience? Yes Yes Some folks (family mostly) look disturbed when I talk about my experience. You quickly learn who is open to discussing it and who isn't. Such a profound experience requires discussion, though, or at least sharing. 

 

Interesting,  and very typical in all aspects and experiences, feelings, with those others I've read about who experienced NDE.

But I didn't see where it mentioned her being a physician? Are you sure you didn't misread "Gillian M NDE" and thought it said "MD?" 

Not a big deal, of course. But I personally place more stock in atheist MDs who experience paranormal stuff.

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joc
1 minute ago, Festina said:

Do chemicals and such in the body create realities? Yes — Joy, misery, creativity and illness. 

Actually there are two circles there...Joy, Misery, Creativity belong in one circle.  Illness belongs in a circle of its own.  However just as Venn Diagrams overlap so do those two circles one might presume.

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Festina
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Tuco's Gas said:

Interesting,  and very typical in all aspects and experiences, feelings, with those others I've read about who experienced NDE.

But I didn't see where it mentioned her being a physician? Are you sure you didn't misread "Gillian M NDE" and thought it said "MD?" 

Not a big deal, of course. But I personally place more stock in atheist MDs who experience paranormal stuff.

Be sure to read the questionnaires.  Most important. :yes:

What life changes occurred in your life after your experience? Moderate changes in my life Moderate changes in my life. I have shared my experience with colleagues despite the fact that it could result in professional criticism or concerns about my sanity and ability to practice medicine. In fact, they have been amazingly supportive and have been quite open to discussing the possibility of life after ‘death’. The whole experience (my first hospitalization, procedures) has made me a better doctor. The NDE has made me a better person. I have less fear overall, and feel that I can now experience a different level of material existence, now that the fear of death has been laid to rest. 

Edited by Festina
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Festina
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, joc said:

Actually there are two circles there...Joy, Misery, Creativity belong in one circle.  Illness belongs in a circle of its own.  However just as Venn Diagrams overlap so do those two circles one might presume.

Why do you fight this idea?

The OT uosurper ‘god’ Jehovah never mentioned an afterlife — he is a parasite who feeds on the suffering of humans — it’s no wonder for when we ‘die’ we are free from its control.  The more suffering of people on the planet, the more sustenance it receives.  ‘Food for the god’.  

As you know I have no religious affiliations but I study them all. He said —  “ I have come to save [rescue] none but the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel” 

~ Jesus

Why?  Well, it appears they needed rescuing from the negative influence of their bloodthirsty malevolent occult dictator — the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob — the tribal ‘Jehovah’ god of the proto Israelites...the jews  were the only ones needed rescuing. 

And then along came Jesus — the Savior of the Jewish people, and in succeeding in this free us all from its influence.  

“The Jehovah god is not the Most High, it is a third rate potency”. 

Hope this helps.  

 

 

Edited by Festina

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joc
7 minutes ago, Festina said:

Why do you fight this idea?

The OT usurper ‘god’ Jehovah never mentioned an afterlife — he is a parasite who feeds on the suffering of humans — it’s no wonder for when we ‘die’ we are free from its control.  The more suffering of people on the planet, the more sustenance it receives.  ‘Food for the god’.  

As you know I have no religious affiliations but I study them all. He said —  “ I have come to save [rescue] none but the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel” 

~ Jesus

Why?  Well, it appears they needed rescuing from the negative influence of their bloodthirsty malevolent occult dictator — the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob — the tribal ‘Jehovah’ god of the proto Israelites...the jews  were the only ones needed rescuing. 

And then along came Jesus — the Savior of the Jewish people, and in succeeding in this free us all from its influence.  

Hope this helps.  

 

 

I'm not fighting anything.  I simply do not believe that the 'god' Jehovah ever even existed.  End of story.  

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Festina
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, joc said:

I'm not fighting anything.  I simply do not believe that the 'god' Jehovah ever even existed.  End of story.  

 

Non belief does not necessarily mean non-existence.

Unfortunately all current evidence backed up by scripture suggests he/it did exist and still does as it’s influence still effects us all today.

Moses’ graven image with his ten commands is emblazoned on our Supreme Court facade. Yahweh is also on our usurious currency. See Deuteronomy 15. 

There is indeed separation of church and state as there is no mention of the beatitudes — and yet no separation of synagogue and state.  It is also interesting to note that for some time now all the SCOTUSs are either catholic or Jewish. The papacy recognizes Yahweh/Jehovah as the “father” that Jesus speaks of. Yet there are no signs of Jesus anywhere.....in DC.  I find this very curious — and a bit disturbing. 

 

 

D71DA0A5-34CB-4699-AAE4-862480AAD35D.jpeg

Edited by Festina

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joc
1 minute ago, Festina said:
18 minutes ago, joc said:

I'm not fighting anything.  I simply do not believe that the 'god' Jehovah ever even existed.  End of story.  

 

Non belief does not necessarily mean non-existence.

Unfortunately he /it did and still does as it’s influence still effects us today.

Moses’ graven image with his ten commands is emblazoned on our Supreme Court facade. He is also on our usurious currency.

There is indeed separation of church and state as there is no mention of the beatitudes but no separation of synagogue and state.  It is also interesting to note that for some time now all the SCOTUSs are either catholic or Jewish. The papacy recognizes Yahweh/Jehovah as the “father” that Jesus speaks of.   No signs of Jesus anywhere.....in DC. 

Belief is irrelevant with regards to truth.  The truth just is.  The truth is not incumbent upon belief in order to be it just is.

Non belief is not 'belief'.  It is the absence of belief.  There is a difference between the two.  A large difference.

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Festina
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, joc said:

Belief is irrelevant with regards to truth.  The truth just is.  The truth is not incumbent upon belief in order to be it just is.

Non belief is not 'belief'.  It is the absence of belief.  There is a difference between the two.  A large difference.

Heavy sigh.

On another subject — How are the ants behaving this year?

Edited by Festina

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joc
9 minutes ago, Festina said:

Heavy sigh.

On another subject — How are the ants behaving this year?

The ants are patiently waiting to die.:gun:

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Festina
1 minute ago, joc said:

The ants are patiently waiting to die.:gun:

A few of these would be useful.  Yes? 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangolin

Do you have armadillos in your neck of the woods? 

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Festina
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, joc said:

Belief is irrelevant with regards to truth.  The truth just is.  The truth is not incumbent upon belief in order to be it just is.

Non belief is not 'belief'.  It is the absence of belief.  There is a difference between the two.  A large difference.

People believe their so called loved ones love them.....until they find out they actually don’t.  Familia love —  Another illusion. 

Edited by Festina

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joc
13 minutes ago, Festina said:

A few of these would be useful.  Yes? 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangolin

Do you have armadillos in your neck of the woods? 

They are a familiar sight on the side of the road...

11 minutes ago, Festina said:

People believe their so called loved ones love them.....until they find out they actually don’t.  Familia love —  Another illusion. 

You are actually making my point.  Belief is irrelevant with regards to the truth.

In other words:

One may believe that certain people love them.  Does that change the truth of how the others actually feel? No.

One may believe that NDE is the equivalent of proof that life exists after death.  Is that the actual truth of the affair?  Maybe it is..maybe it isn't.  Either way...the truth is the truth and belief has nothing to do with it.

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Festina
32 minutes ago, joc said:

They are a familiar sight on the side of the road...

You are actually making my point.  Belief is irrelevant with regards to the truth.

In other words:

One may believe that certain people love them.  Does that change the truth of how the others actually feel? No.

One may believe that NDE is the equivalent of proof that life exists after death.  Is that the actual truth of the affair?  Maybe it is..maybe it isn't.  Either way...the truth is the truth and belief has nothing to do with it.

You’ve never had an NDE or an OBE ...so then...you have no idea.  Just your ‘opinion’ which is...

A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: synonym: view.

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Festina
21 hours ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

I don't care about you, nor your beliefs, nor those of doctor anecdote. So insult away. 

If you don’t care...why did you take the time to respond?  

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Imaginarynumber1
1 minute ago, Festina said:

If you don’t care...why did you take the time to respond?  

I've explained this quite well several times before, but basically, I don't need to explain myself to you.

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