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19_Kilo

Neurologist Experiences Heaven during NDE

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Festina
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

I've explained this quite well several times before, but basically, I don't need to explain myself to you.

Nor to anyone else so....be still.

Edited by Festina

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Imaginarynumber1
1 minute ago, Festina said:

Nor to anyone else so....be still.

I will do as I damn well, please.

"be still" Yeah, right. 

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Festina
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

I will do as I damn well, please.

"be still" Yeah, right. 

Yet you trash others for their voice.  Are you what is called a forum pest, or just an ordinary hypocrite...?

 

Edited by Festina

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Imaginarynumber1
2 minutes ago, Festina said:

Yet you trash others for their voice.  Are you what is called a forum pest, or just an ordinary hypocrite...?

 

Oh, I am far from an ordinary hypocrite. I am an EXTRAORDINARY hypocrite.

You're the one who started this pointless bit here, and then told me not to comment, because you didn't like my comment, so... be still

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Festina
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Oh, I am far from an ordinary hypocrite. I am an EXTRAORDINARY hypocrite.

You're the one who started this pointless bit here, and then told me not to comment, because you didn't like my comment, so... be still

Pay attention.  I’m not the OP of this thread.  

Night, night.

 

Edited by Festina

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Imaginarynumber1
1 minute ago, Festina said:

Pay attention.  I’m not the OP of this thread.  

Night, night.

 

Be still

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joc
5 hours ago, Festina said:

I have less fear overall, and feel that I can now experience a different level of material existence, now that the fear of death has been laid to rest. 

While the OP might believe that to be true...I have my own doubts.  The antidote for fear is not belief.  The antidote for fear is isolation of, and an understanding of the fear.  An acknowledgement of the fear and why it is, in other words.   Why am I afraid of death?  That is the question.  Why do I fear X or Y or Z.  Unless we actually isolate the fear and confront it...we cannot be free from the fear.  

True story: I have always had a fear of deep, dark water.   One night all alone, I decided I would swim along the bottom of the pool from one end to the other at the apartment pool where i lived.  The deepest part was where the drain was and it was 10 feet deep.  I could hold my breath long enough but time after time when I got to the drain, I would panic and shoot straight up to the surface.

I got out and walked completely around the pool...nothing in the pool but water.  Why was I so afraid?  What was I afraid of?  Then I remembered that day long ago as a kid at the lake.  I just decided to swim as far as I could under water following the bottom of the lake...the bottom took a distinct deep turn and I followed it and the water suddenly was much colder and darker.  I panicked because I was running out of air and shot to the surface...except...the surface wasn't there...I must have been 15 feet deep at least.  Pretty deep for a little boy.  

So...I swam the pool again...when I got to the drain I just kept on going.  I then swam it several more times...no problem.  

 

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Mr Walker
21 hours ago, joc said:

 

Thousands of people...tens of thousands of people have experienced 'something' as a result of NDE.

Because of the high volume of personal anecdote... a logical thinking person should conclude that there is a correlation between bizarre hallucinations and NDE.  It's been widely discussed as to what causes these hallucinations.  

An illogical thinking person concludes that the Consciousness is immortal and separate from the brain and body.  The Evidence is The Experience.  The Experience is Hallucination.  Therefore...the Evidence is Hallucination.  

The Conclusion:  Many people hallucinate upon regaining consciousness and remember it as being real.  

 

I think that i often the case 

However it doesn't explain the cases where people move outside their body and hear and observe things they could not hear or see from  the position of their body 

Its really hard to be sure about any of this Last time in hospital after new heart valves i was out for quite a while.

I had my first NDE It was different and very scary, but even as i had it i saw it as proof that i was alive, struggling to stay alive, and my mind was affected by the drugs and anaesthetics  It was basiclly a continuous ground hog day in the operating room and i was only slowly able to change it so that it did not keep repeating endlessly

I did wonder for a few seconds if i had died and was in some form of transitional life and might be trapped in that loop for a long time.

But then my rational mind took over and i realised what was happening ie i was  alive, but deeply unconscious, affected by drugs, dreaming or hallucinating, and with very limited abilty to control my surroundings(thoughts)  It took all my will and leaned cognitive strategies for lucid dreaming    to work my mind out of the  loop, and break it, so my mind could move on  This was a gradual process and took time, but as soon as i made some progress I stopped worrying.     

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GlitterRose
Posted (edited)
On 2/29/2020 at 9:18 AM, papageorge1 said:

An unbiased rational analysis is one way we learn is the reason 'why'. And maybe they are not looking to bolster but understand the human experience.

And where should our 'beliefs' come from if not the fair consideration of everything.

Just be sure that while you're considering, you consider that there are flaws in argument. One of them is ad populum. 

There's also appeal to authority, and this smacks of both.

Edited by GlitterRose
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papageorge1
19 minutes ago, GlitterRose said:

Just be sure that while you're considering, you consider that there are flaws in argument. One of them is ad populum. 

There's also appeal to authority, and this smacks of both.

I am aware of those considerations.

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LeonKennedy
8 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I think that i often the case 

However it doesn't explain the cases where people move outside their body and hear and observe things they could not hear or see from  the position of their body 

Its really hard to be sure about any of this Last time in hospital after new heart valves i was out for quite a while.

I had my first NDE It was different and very scary, but even as i had it i saw it as proof that i was alive, struggling to stay alive, and my mind was affected by the drugs and anaesthetics  It was basiclly a continuous ground hog day in the operating room and i was only slowly able to change it so that it did not keep repeating endlessly

I did wonder for a few seconds if i had died and was in some form of transitional life and might be trapped in that loop for a long time.

But then my rational mind took over and i realised what was happening ie i was  alive, but deeply unconscious, affected by drugs, dreaming or hallucinating, and with very limited abilty to control my surroundings(thoughts)  It took all my will and leaned cognitive strategies for lucid dreaming    to work my mind out of the  loop, and break it, so my mind could move on  This was a gradual process and took time, but as soon as i made some progress I stopped worrying.     

Do you believe some of them are real, as opposed to hallucinations brought on by drugs and circumstances? Just curious about your opinion.

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Mr Walker
5 hours ago, LeonKennedy said:

Do you believe some of them are real, as opposed to hallucinations brought on by drugs and circumstances? Just curious about your opinion.

I am not really into belief.

  My answer is i don't know

I wanted to ask the nursing /medical staff if the conversations between them, which i had heard in my hallucination,(about boyfriends parties and football) were actually going on in the operating room  while i was under but by the time i was well enough to do this there were different shifts 

When i did mention it to a doctor, they sent in a psych to check out my current state of mind  :) 

He was happy, if surprised, as i worked through my thought processes with him, and how i had used learned skills to banish hallucinations and differentiate reality from hallucinations He said he had never met anyone before who was able to divide their mind into compartments, then lock the hallucinations inside one compartment and eliminate them (my mental compartment was a large field surrounded by a big hedge and a small gate. I placed either myself or the hallucinations inside the field  where the y could not be seen, and we became separate from each other so i could remove the hallucinations form  my mind 

He said most people were very afraid of their hallucinations and many became paranoid.

  I said i knew what they were, and  that, while I was not afraid of them,  they were annoying me, and preventing me from  sleeping, so i worked out how to get rid of them. 

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Mr Walker
On 3/1/2020 at 9:56 AM, Festina said:

Don’t be a Ninny or I’ll have to come over there. Boo!

After  I had my very short OBE, something I knew nothing about before the event occurred I started talking to peeps about the subject, mostly strangers.

My painter who was 65 at the time said she had spontaneous OBEs as a youth.  They stopped when she was 14.  I mentioned it to another older lady as well, a stranger, she was not an old hippy nor did she do drugs — an ordinary grandmotherly type, wife of a wheat farmer.    She said she had them as well in her youth and our conversation was the first time she had ever discussed them with anyone.  I wonder how many people are affected by this and are afraid to speak out lest they be thought a lunatic.

Spank, spank, ‘Safety Man’.  :yes:

 

 

lots :) 

Speak with people, openly and nonjudgmentally, and you will find most people have had one or more paranormal experiences. 

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Mr Walker
22 hours ago, Festina said:

 

Non belief does not necessarily mean non-existence.

Unfortunately all current evidence backed up by scripture suggests he/it did exist and still does as it’s influence still effects us all today.

Moses’ graven image with his ten commands is emblazoned on our Supreme Court facade. Yahweh is also on our usurious currency. See Deuteronomy 15. 

There is indeed separation of church and state as there is no mention of the beatitudes — and yet no separation of synagogue and state.  It is also interesting to note that for some time now all the SCOTUSs are either catholic or Jewish. The papacy recognizes Yahweh/Jehovah as the “father” that Jesus speaks of. Yet there are no signs of Jesus anywhere.....in DC.  I find this very curious — and a bit disturbing. 

 

 

D71DA0A5-34CB-4699-AAE4-862480AAD35D.jpeg

what you call hell may be the residual effects of our primate ancestry fighting with the slef awareness we evolved  ie we see ourselves acting like other animals but know its wrong and so develop guilt and then compensatory mechanisms to relieve or step around that guilt.

  eg why are we bad when we know how to be good? Oh because adam and eve were tempted ,and fell from grace, changing human nature, separating  us from god/spiritual well being, and causing us to do bad things 

We recognise both states of mind, heaven and hell. We can create for ourlseves in our own mind either state and maintain it for our life 

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Mr Walker
22 hours ago, Festina said:

People believe their so called loved ones love them.....until they find out they actually don’t.  Familia love —  Another illusion. 

?  Never had that experience. 

It is not an illusion. The love in our family lasts a lifetime, and i am talking here often close to 100 years

Its sad if this is not your experience, but for some of us love is genuine,  permanent, and comes in many forms, including romantic and  familia. 

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Mr Walker
18 hours ago, joc said:

While the OP might believe that to be true...I have my own doubts.  The antidote for fear is not belief.  The antidote for fear is isolation of, and an understanding of the fear.  An acknowledgement of the fear and why it is, in other words.   Why am I afraid of death?  That is the question.  Why do I fear X or Y or Z.  Unless we actually isolate the fear and confront it...we cannot be free from the fear.  

True story: I have always had a fear of deep, dark water.   One night all alone, I decided I would swim along the bottom of the pool from one end to the other at the apartment pool where i lived.  The deepest part was where the drain was and it was 10 feet deep.  I could hold my breath long enough but time after time when I got to the drain, I would panic and shoot straight up to the surface.

I got out and walked completely around the pool...nothing in the pool but water.  Why was I so afraid?  What was I afraid of?  Then I remembered that day long ago as a kid at the lake.  I just decided to swim as far as I could under water following the bottom of the lake...the bottom took a distinct deep turn and I followed it and the water suddenly was much colder and darker.  I panicked because I was running out of air and shot to the surface...except...the surface wasn't there...I must have been 15 feet deep at least.  Pretty deep for a little boy.  

So...I swam the pool again...when I got to the drain I just kept on going.  I then swam it several more times...no problem.  

 

Both work

I have no fear because i learned what it was and how to deconstruct it. (as you did) 

My wife has no fear of anything  because she has complete faith in god.

Both work effectively.  

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Festina
23 hours ago, joc said:

They are a familiar sight on the side of the road...

You are actually making my point.  Belief is irrelevant with regards to the truth.

In other words:

One may believe that certain people love them.  Does that change the truth of how the others actually feel? No.

One may believe that NDE is the equivalent of proof that life exists after death.  Is that the actual truth of the affair?  Maybe it is..maybe it isn't.  Either way...the truth is the truth and belief has nothing to do with it.

All one can truly know is oneself.  

And ones own experiences.

Nosce te ipsum.

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Festina
Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

?  Never had that experience. 

It is not an illusion. The love in our family lasts a lifetime, and i am talking here often close to 100 years

Its sad if this is not your experience, but for some of us love is genuine,  permanent, and comes in many forms, including romantic and  familia. 

Lucky for you...I have not been so.  All I did was give, they took and they punished, and they continue to do so.  Jealousy and revenge.  For what?  Surviving their mischief  —  and Succeeding in spite of their efforts to destroy.   For me the mortal family is highly overrated. 

But I’m Glad you have what I don’t.  :yes:

Edited by Festina

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Festina
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, LeonKennedy said:

Do you believe some of them are real, as opposed to hallucinations brought on by drugs and circumstances? Just curious about your opinion.

I think they happen when the body is weakened by illness or trauma and the spirit can then more easily separate from the heavy weight of the physical form.  This is explanatory of NDEs. Meditation can bring them on as well in some cases. 

Edited by Festina

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Mr Walker
3 minutes ago, Festina said:

Lucky for you...I have not been so.  All I did was give, they took and they punished, and they continue to do so.  Jealousy and revenge.  For what?  Surviving their mischief  —  and Succeeding in spite of their efforts to destroy.   For me the mortal family is highly overrated. 

But I’m Glad you have what I don’t.  :yes:

And I am sad that you do not 

I appreciate how lucky I have been, especially in the modern world 

My family was always old fashioned in its values and virtues. 

we love for life, marry for life, and remain family for life.

We have even remained  physically close to each other in the same area, for over 120 years on my fathers side and 160 years on my mothers  

We care for, and look after, each other for life 

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Festina
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

And I am sad that you do not 

I appreciate how lucky I have been, especially in the modern world 

My family was always old fashioned in its values and virtues. 

we love for life, marry for life, and remain family for life.

We have even remained  physically close to each other in the same area, for over 120 years on my fathers side and 160 years on my mothers  

We care for, and look after, each other for life 

Don’t be sad for me.  I see everyone as family — for better or for worse. 

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Festina
2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

what you call hell may be the residual effects of our primate ancestry fighting with the slef awareness we evolved  ie we see ourselves acting like other animals but know its wrong and so develop guilt and then compensatory mechanisms to relieve or step around that guilt.

  eg why are we bad when we know how to be good? Oh because adam and eve were tempted ,and fell from grace, changing human nature, separating  us from god/spiritual well being, and causing us to do bad things 

We recognise both states of mind, heaven and hell. We can create for ourlseves in our own mind either state and maintain it for our life 

Hey Kiddo, I never said anything about ‘Hell’ in my post.  Perhaps you quoted the wrong member? 

 

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LeonKennedy

Thanks Mr. Walker for responding. I'm surprised that you don't put more weight in them in terms of them possibly being real, but I appreciate that you're honest in saying you don't know. I agree somewhat.  Others are so sure they're not real, but I believe in the super natural myself. I mean, I think I've told this story before but,  I once heard a choir of Angels (as best as I can conclude) in a hospital room and I I wasn't under any type of drugs or anything like that. In fact i wasn't even tired. Not an Out of Body Experience, but similiar I suppose.

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Mr Walker
On 3/2/2020 at 1:01 PM, Festina said:

Hey Kiddo, I never said anything about ‘Hell’ in my post.  Perhaps you quoted the wrong member? 

 

Na it was the right person but perhaps the wrong post 

I appreciate you dont believe in  hell.

  I meant that humans construct hell as an explanation  for  the difference between how they know they can be, (pretty damn good)  and how the y often are  (pretty damn bad) :) 

Thus to explain this the y invent stories like the fall and places like heaven and hell to rationalise their self  knowledge and behaviours, and legends/myths to explain why we are not perfect.

   Once you understand evolution you  can understand that our behaviors are basic primate ones, which conflict with our unique human self  awareness/ conscience/ consciousness etc.,  

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