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19_Kilo

Neurologist Experiences Heaven during NDE

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Mr Walker
On 3/2/2020 at 1:09 PM, LeonKennedy said:

Thanks Mr. Walker for responding. I'm surprised that you don't put more weight in them in terms of them possibly being real, but I appreciate that you're honest in saying you don't know. I agree somewhat.  Others are so sure they're not real, but I believe in the super natural myself. I mean, I think I've told this story before but,  I once heard a choir of Angels (as best as I can conclude) in a hospital room and I I wasn't under any type of drugs or anything like that. In fact i wasn't even tired. Not an Out of Body Experience, but similiar I suppose.

You are speaking to a bloke who had an "angel"  in physical/human  form come to his hospital room before a major operation and bring a bible, which opened to the words "Have no fear No harm shall come you, because i am watching over you" Then he/it walked out on to a 5th floor balcony and disappeared. All the nurses saw him and he left behind a physical bible  That is the sort of experience i CAN be sure of but i simply have no evidences that what i experienced while unconscious reflected what was going on in the operating room   Given the nature of the conversations it wouldn't surprise me, but i might have been just conscious enough to be aware of the conversations, which then became part of an ongoing "dream" experience   

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LeonKennedy
Posted (edited)

That's incredible Mr. Walker.

Edited by LeonKennedy
Rephrase

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Sherapy
On 2/28/2020 at 6:58 PM, Tuco's Gas said:

In a bit of good news and "I told you so" bragging rights for believers, former atheist and Harvard Neurosurgeon Dr Eben Alexander claims he is now a believer! This, after glimpsing Heaven--replete with Angels and puffy pink clouds--during his own personal Near Death Experience.

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/eben-alexander-harvard-neurosurgeon-proof-of-heaven-afterlife-coma_n_1951475

My first question would be when it says slipped into a coma or was it an induced and what other drugs were given. I would want to see a list of the drugs when he was in a coma, and the drugs used to fight the meningitis. 
 

Some drugs flood the dopamine receptors which can cause hallucinations like the NDE this too is probably a drug side effect, 

 

 

 

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
On 3/1/2020 at 1:15 AM, Mr Walker said:

I think that i often the case 

However it doesn't explain the cases where people move outside their body and hear and observe things they could not hear or see from  the position of their body 

Its really hard to be sure about any of this Last time in hospital after new heart valves i was out for quite a while.

I had my first NDE It was different and very scary, but even as i had it i saw it as proof that i was alive, struggling to stay alive, and my mind was affected by the drugs and anaesthetics  It was basiclly a continuous ground hog day in the operating room and i was only slowly able to change it so that it did not keep repeating endlessly

I did wonder for a few seconds if i had died and was in some form of transitional life and might be trapped in that loop for a long time.

But then my rational mind took over and i realised what was happening ie i was  alive, but deeply unconscious, affected by drugs, dreaming or hallucinating, and with very limited abilty to control my surroundings(thoughts)  It took all my will and leaned cognitive strategies for lucid dreaming    to work my mind out of the  loop, and break it, so my mind could move on  This was a gradual process and took time, but as soon as i made some progress I stopped worrying.     

“ my mind was affected by the drugs and anaesthetics” exactly!

These drugs flood the many receptors and cause hallucinations there is nothing more to them. 

But there are those that would want to make money, capitalize and write a book, modern day charlatans. 
 

 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
On 3/1/2020 at 4:58 PM, Festina said:

Lucky for you...I have not been so.  All I did was give, they took and they punished, and they continue to do so.  Jealousy and revenge.  For what?  Surviving their mischief  —  and Succeeding in spite of their efforts to destroy.   For me the mortal family is highly overrated. 

But I’m Glad you have what I don’t.  :yes:

All the best to you Festina, you are correct, not every family is wonderful or worth holding onto. 
 

Letting go or getting out and standing strong is its own form of strength. 
 

I read a lot of your posts, I get the impression you have been through a lot but have held on to your own heart, are kind and wise,
 

There are many ways to love and many wonderful ways to share this,  as you said.

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Festina
25 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

“ my mind was affected by the drugs and anaesthetics” exactly!

These drugs flood the many receptors and cause hallucinations there is nothing more to them. 

But there are those that would want to make money, capitalize and write a book, modern day charlatans. 
 

 

 

But who’s to decide what is “Real”?  

The are countless numbers of people who had NDEs and have seen their entire lives flash before them. They retain the memory of much of these experiences like they just happened.  Hallucination? 

So then—I wonder how many people remember what they had for breakfast 1/6/2020 or last Tuesday?  

 

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joc
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Festina said:

But who’s to decide what is “Real”?  

The are countless numbers of people who had NDEs and have seen their entire lives flash before them. They retain the memory of much of these experiences like they just happened.  Hallucination? 

So then—I wonder how many people remember what they had for breakfast 1/6/2020 or last Tuesday?  

 

I had my entire life flash before my eyes in one nano-second.  True Story!

I was driving down a road at night...doing about 40...didn't see the road turned sharply left.  I went airborne and ka-wamph, landed on all 4s and kept on rolling...drove on through the field and came out on the other road. No damage, no injuries....

....in the nano-second it took to go airborne and into the field 6' below...my entire life did indeed flash before my eyes!  The key word being F L A S H.

:Not so much hallucination as flash of memory

Edited by joc
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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Festina said:

But who’s to decide what is “Real”?  

The are countless numbers of people who had NDEs and have seen their entire lives flash before them. They retain the memory of much of these experiences like they just happened.  Hallucination? 

So then—I wonder how many people remember what they had for breakfast 1/6/2020 or last Tuesday?  

 

 

2 hours ago, Festina said:

But who’s to decide what is “Real”?  

The are countless numbers of people who had NDEs and have seen their entire lives flash before them. They retain the memory of much of these experiences like they just happened.  Hallucination? 

So then—I wonder how many people remember what they had for breakfast 1/6/2020 or last Tuesday?  

 

Real as in what the NDE claims is actual reality for the rest of us or real as in it was a subjective experience inside the brain most likely due to drugs given, or a coma like state that is similar to dream like state? 
 

For me, it is the difference between a dream and actuality. 
 

It is possible the brain can hallucinate, we call it this if what is hallucinated has no actuality at least not at this time in our understanding. 
 

 

 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Stubbly_Dooright

You know, and if I'm getting @GlitterRose correct here and feel the same about can't too sure of life after death or not, who really knows, I think of what @psyche101 said: 

Quote

Steven Novella and Sean Carroll didn't find his anecdotes impressive, nor does he seem to have actually died. He seems pretty unimpressive to me.

I think is the key here. I don't think we really will have the true answer, until someone comes back from being dead for longer than a week. (just to make sure) and no, let's think of this in the non-religious objective sense. 

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19_Kilo
8 hours ago, Sherapy said:

My first question would be when it says slipped into a coma or was it an induced and what other drugs were given. I would want to see a list of the drugs when he was in a coma, and the drugs used to fight the meningitis. 
 

Some drugs flood the dopamine receptors which can cause hallucinations like the NDE this too is probably a drug side effect, 

 

One would think that a Neurosurgeon would be aware of the possibility that his NDE was drug-induced. But maybe he does know, and just wanted to write a book. 

 

 

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Mr Walker
8 hours ago, Sherapy said:

“ my mind was affected by the drugs and anaesthetics” exactly!

These drugs flood the many receptors and cause hallucinations there is nothing more to them. 

But there are those that would want to make money, capitalize and write a book, modern day charlatans. 
 

 

 

yep and i knew what was happening and worked out a cognitive procedure to overcome/prevent it. 

Its why i never trust experiences where conditions like illness drugs alcohol or tiredness are involved 

BUT there are cases which are inexplicable such as peole on the operating table under anaesthetic whose consciousnesses rose from their body and moved around, seeing and remembering things impossible to see or hear from their unconscious body 

These remain inexplicable

I dont think there was anything paranormal in my own experiences in htis instance,  but i would not judge those of another  

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Festina
5 hours ago, Sherapy said:

 

Real as in what the NDE claims is actual reality for the rest of us or real as in it was a subjective experience inside the brain most likely due to drugs given, or a coma like state that is similar to dream like state? 
 

For me, it is the difference between a dream and actuality. 
 

It is possible the brain can hallucinate, we call it this if what is hallucinated has no actuality at least not at this time in our understanding. 
 

 

 

 

Words, WORDS, WORDS— like ‘Hallucinate’.  

What do they reveal?

Not much.

 

 

 

 

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Festina
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

 

BUT there are cases which are inexplicable such as peole on the operating table under anaesthetic whose consciousnesses rose from their body and moved around, seeing and remembering things impossible to see or hear from their unconscious body 

  

I met woman — now  a friend — in my small town several years ago, a Doctor.  She had surgery at The Cleveland Clinic for kidney cancer.  They gave her the wrong blood type...she died. In her discarnate state she wondered around the hospital and heard what they were on about.  When she recovered she told them of her journey which caused them much distress.    Her medical records “mysteriously  disappeared”.  After this event she sold her very successful medical practice in Florida and went to Tibet—For six months — seeking answers.  She is forever ‘changed’ from her ‘experience’. 

Previous to Christianity the Hindus, Buddhists, ancient Egyptians and the Mystery Schools all knew of an after life.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Festina
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and then
On 2/28/2020 at 10:36 PM, Imaginarynumber1 said:

I don't care about you, nor your beliefs, nor those of doctor anecdote. So insult away. 

I wasn't insulting you.  I was pointing out the reflexive need to attack any mention of faith.  

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Timothy
12 minutes ago, and then said:

I wasn't insulting you.  I was pointing out the reflexive need to attack any mention of faith.  

OP was baiting a bit TBH. 

And yes there’s still no proof, let alone a need for anything fantastical to explain NDE’s. 

The obvious explanation is that people don’t understand what they’re experiencing. 

Our brains are amazing, and faith is not required. 

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Timothy
On 3/1/2020 at 1:25 AM, Helen of Annoy said:

*snip*

knowing things they couldn't possibly know,

*snip*

To my knowledge, this has never happened. 

Same with reincarnation. Should be easy to prove, but it has never been in all human history. 

Interesting, sure. But nothing verifiable.

So, do you have an example?

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Festina
Posted (edited)

He Knowz...The Summoner

 

Edited by Festina

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Festina said:

Words, WORDS, WORDS— like ‘Hallucinate’.  

What do they reveal?

Not much.

 

 

 

 

You are free to believe what you want, I see nothing here.

Any drugs involved with the copious amount of side effects, I would not put any stock into NDE claims. 
 

I am more interested in the actual illness and meningitis is notoriously known for hallucinations in serious  cases. 

You can  google research for yourself. If you prefer to believe this guy on faith...

A person being that sick can and does hallucinate, claims things that do not exist,  

Edited by Sherapy
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Festina
4 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

You are free to believe what you want, I see nothing here.

Any drugs involved with the copious amount of side effects, I would not put any stock into NDE claims. 
 

I am more interested in the actual illness and meningitis is notoriouslyknown for hallucinations in serious  cases. 

 

A person being that sick can and does hallucinate, claims things that do not exist,  

When someone is very ill the spirit/consciousness separates from the body.

Many of the peeps who had these experiences where not under any kind of medical care or drug influence.

Near drownings are a perfect example. 

Believe want you like too. 

We will All Know at The End of Material ‘existence” if not before. 

:yes:

 

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Sherapy
1 minute ago, Festina said:

When someone is very ill the spirit/consciousness separates from the body.

Many of the peeps who had these experiences where not under any kind of medical care or drug influence.

Near drownings are a perfect example. 

Believe want you like too. 

We will All Know at The End of Material ‘existence” if not before. 

:yes:

 

Festina, I am a caregiver for Hospice, 
 

There is an irreversible biological process, loss of consciousness, then death. 
There are signs kidneys stop producing urine, loss of consciousness etc.   

Near death is not death at all. 

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Hammerclaw
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Festina said:

When someone is very ill the spirit/consciousness separates from the body.

Many of the peeps who had these experiences where not under any kind of medical care or drug influence.

Near drownings are a perfect example. 

Believe want you like too. 

We will All Know at The End of Material ‘existence” if not before. 

:yes:

 

Well, you'd have to establish the existence of spirits and souls as something other than supporting elements of a belief system. "Why, everyone knows" sorts of explanations don't get much tranction, here. Facing the sceptics, here you do it from a lectern, Not a pulpit, 'cause UM sure the hell ain't no church. Most of the unbelievers here do not acknowledge the existence of God or souls. Everyone here definitely does not know.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Festina
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Well, you'd have to establish the existence of spirits and souls as something other than supporting elements of a belief system. "Why, everyone knows" sorts of explanations don't get much tranction, here. Facing the sceptics, here you do it from a lectern, Not a pulpit, 'cause UM sure the hell ain't no church. Most of the unbelievers here do not acknowledge the existence of God or souls. Everyone here definitely does not know.

I don’t have a ‘belief system’ — Just experiences that I know were real.  Dreams? 

We “Row, row, row our boats....

....merrily, merrily, merrily.....merrily”.....

Truth in simplicity and simplicity in truth.  

 

 

Edited by Festina
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19_Kilo
On 2/28/2020 at 10:36 PM, Imaginarynumber1 said:

I don't care about you, nor your beliefs, nor those of doctor anecdote. So insult away. 

I personally believe a detailed, recounted experience from an MD merits more credibility than the term "anecdote" usually conveys. Especially when the experience fell squarely in the field of expertise of the MD: workings of the brain and the aspects of experience and consciousness as perceived by the CNS.

One could blithely dismiss any first hand sworn account or testimony as an anecdote if they so choose. But in court of law, such is not the case. You're basically saying that you don't believe anything you don't see or experience yourself.  This is ironically a logical fallacy: dismissing due to incredulity.

Cheers!

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Tuco's Gas said:

I personally believe a detailed, recounted experience from an MD merits more credibility than the term "anecdote" usually conveys. Especially when the experience fell squarely in the field of expertise of the MD: workings of the brain and the aspects of experience and consciousness as perceived by the CNS.

One could blithely dismiss any first hand sworn account or testimony as an anecdote if they so choose. But in court of law, such is not the case. You're basically saying that you don't believe anything you don't see or experience yourself.  This is ironically a logical fallacy: dismissing due to incredulity.

Cheers!

I actually work for a Neurologist, don’t think for a minute that they are not human and can’t be bought to write a book. 
 

Some will sell out, some won’t. But, even if the guy thinks he is onto something, where’s the science?
 

I would dig a lot deeper if I was you. 
 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Festina
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Festina said:

He Knowz...The Summoner

 

Oopsa. Wrong version. Better....

 

Edited by Festina

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