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Fate: A lesson in how to lose control

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Most people believe in fate and most spiritual faith traditions contain an element of its mystery in its teachings. We like to believe that we direct our destiny and this stands strong most of the time until something weird happens. Good or bad. We all have astounding stories re fate. I have accumulated hundreds over the years as you can imagine. Enough that I don’t doubt that there is a destiny for all of us. Understanding and describing its mechanisms is complicated however, but I wanted to give it a whirl.

More: https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/column.php?id=335260

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19_Kilo
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, UM-Bot said:

It's virtually impossible to believe in "fate" or "destiny" without belief also in some sort of supernatural entity that's directing the show. Or that is choregrqphing real world events so they grease the tracks for you to be better able to attain your fate.

Since I personally cannot believe in a string pulling divine entity who does those things, I cannot believe in the notions of fate or destiny.

A question in closing for the article author: Those 5000 children who die daily from malnutrition?  Was that their fate too? Or are you just special in such a degree that your god helps you see and realize your own wonderful destiny?

Just curious.

Peace.

Edited by Tuco's Gas
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aztek

faith=excuse for poor decisions. 

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Kaikou
2 hours ago, Tuco's Gas said:

It's virtually impossible to believe in "fate" or "destiny" without belief also in some sort of supernatural entity that's directing the show. Or that is choregrqphing real world events so they grease the tracks for you to be better able to attain your fate.

Since I personally cannot believe in a string pulling divine entity who does those things, I cannot believe in the notions of fate or destiny.

A question in closing for the article author: Those 5000 children who die daily from malnutrition?  Was that their fate too? Or are you just special in such a degree that your god helps you see and realize your own wonderful destiny?

Just curious.

Peace.

I agree, I also find it to be a huge problem. It's essentially an escape word. Especailly here in the west we like to use the word "luck",
"Good luck with the match today!"
"Ah, that's just my luck". It's like a get out clause. "Well, my luck wasn't in today".

How much of what you were doing comes down to luck, how much came down to the decisions that you made?
I grew up in a poor family where everything at every opportunity seemed to go "wrong" for us.

My Mother used to say "We must be cursed".
When my Father failed to land a job he would say "I didn't get the job because my face doesn't fit, I'm not part of the workplace clique".

Both of these things in some form (just like the idea of luck) take away the blame from the individual.

We were cursed because of the actions that went into the decision.
"Good people" don't always get good outcomes. My mother in the grand scheme of things was a "good person". Giving without the expectaion to receive. Putting in more and more effort yet everything seemed to fall apart.
Well, if you give money over and over again to someone who has failed to pay you back (even though they said they would) and you fail to get it back time and time again, if you continue the same action, is that a curse or a bad decision?

If you put in more and more hours at work and get given more and more responsibilities without payment or reward is that a curse or a decision?

As for my Dad with the whole "my face doesn't fit" arguement, if you look at it more closely it starts to fall apart.
If you apply for a job that's looking for a worker to work 6 days a week, yet tell employers "I'll only work Monday to Thursday because Friday, Saturday and Sunday is my weekend".
Also, "Don't give me a list of job roles, Give me one thing to do and I'll do that and nothing more" yet not get the job...

Is that REALLY the fact that your "face doesn't fit" or is that the fact that an employer has needs for a job role that you're not instrested in filling?

I have the same issue with words like "Fate" or "destiny". It implies that you have no control over it.
In the end it's true that you can't control EVERYTHING that happens to you... You can however chose how to react and what steps to take after.

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and then
4 hours ago, Tuco's Gas said:

Those 5000 children who die daily from malnutrition?  Was that their fate too?

Those 5000 children didn't magically appear.  Human beings made choices that caused them to be brought into a situation where it could be imagined they might starve, possibly even be expected to starve.  We cannot manage the behavior  even of those who love and respect us personally.  We can guide, exhort, plead, but coerce?  Nope.  How much more hopeless to demand change in those we don't know?

Arguing about faith in a Creator is pointless but I too often see people who will make statements like these that seem to mock the very idea that God exists while blaming that same God for all the world's catastrophes.  It just seems odd to me.

Humanity is capable of both wonders and horrors and we have the capability to learn and change.  It's sad that even with all our progress in the ability to tame our environment and make life safer for millions, we also plan for the destruction of many more millions... just in case they might try to harm us first.

I believe we each are given the time and space to make choices.  The nature of that time and space is often determined by the actions of others over which we have no control.  I think our time here, whether it's hours or a century, is a time of learning and testing.  It makes no sense at all and seems horribly cruel if we believe this is all there will ever be for us.  That's why just as you cannot believe in "in a string pulling divine entity", I cannot believe that the universe and all we are learning about its vastness and order, are not part of a plan by a Creator.  I don't claim to know the details of the plan, nor do I expect or demand any other person to believe as I. 

 

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19_Kilo
38 minutes ago, and then said:

Those 5000 children didn't magically appear.  Human beings made choices that caused them to be brought into a situation where it could be imagined they might starve, possibly even be expected to starve.  We cannot manage the behavior  even of those who love and respect us personally.  We can guide, exhort, plead, but coerce?  Nope.  How much more hopeless to demand change in those we don't know?

Arguing about faith in a Creator is pointless but I too often see people who will make statements like these that seem to mock the very idea that God exists while blaming that same God for all the world's catastrophes.  It just seems odd to me.

Humanity is capable of both wonders and horrors and we have the capability to learn and change.  It's sad that even with all our progress in the ability to tame our environment and make life safer for millions, we also plan for the destruction of many more millions... just in case they might try to harm us first.

I believe we each are given the time and space to make choices.  The nature of that time and space is often determined by the actions of others over which we have no control.  I think our time here, whether it's hours or a century, is a time of learning and testing.  It makes no sense at all and seems horribly cruel if we believe this is all there will ever be for us.  That's why just as you cannot believe in "in a string pulling divine entity", I cannot believe that the universe and all we are learning about its vastness and order, are not part of a plan by a Creator.  I don't claim to know the details of the plan, nor do I expect or demand any other person to believe as I. 

 

So if "The nature of time and space is determined by others which we have no control over" how then does your god ensure your fate is fulfilled? He by necessity must intervene on others at certain points in time so you can benefit and attain your magical destiny. What about their destiny?

 

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Festina
Posted (edited)
On 3/8/2020 at 1:00 PM, and then said:

 

Arguing about faith in a Creator is pointless but I too often see people who will make statements like these that seem to mock the very idea that God exists while blaming that same God for all the world's catastrophes.  It just seems odd to me.

The Bible god Yahweh is not the creator.  Like the “LORD God”[ Yahweh]   said there are many gods and that they  — the proto Israelites — shall have none other than him.  Then he commanded them to kill and rob all that refused to worship him.  

Most of the the so called wickedness in the Bible that he was accusing others of doing was simply worshipping other gods and goddesses.  If you are interested see Jeremiah 44.  

There are good gods and evil gods. I see  him as evil.

Oh and, where was he and what was he doing before Moses showed up?  

This is how I picture him...probably why he didn’t want his portrait painted.or a statue carved ...

The second commandment....

“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.” — Deuteronomy 5 

85CB1694-BB47-405F-923E-F7E95679C738.jpeg

Edited by Festina

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