The Work that God does

[Festina]

40 minutes ago, Piney said:

The only thing Hans, Mel, Steve, Marty and I and numerous other Wiki editors who aren't members here oppose is bull****. 

 

Plutarch...

In opposition to Stoic materialism and Epicurean atheism he cherished a pure idea of “God” that was more in accordance with Plato He adopted a second principle (Dyad)  in order to explain the phenomenal world. This principle he sought, however, not in any indeterminate matter but in the evil world-soul which has from the beginning been bound up with matter, but in the creation was filled with reason and arranged by it. Thus it was transformed into the divine soul of the world [Platos’s demiurge, which I believe was corrupted by Osarseph, via magic, MHI], but continued [started] to operate as the source of all evil. He elevated God above the finite world, and thus daemons [minor gods]  became for him agents of God's influence on the world. He strongly defends freedom of the will, and the immortality of the soul.

— bracketed emphasis mine. 

It seems the philosophers knew some ‘thing’ was definitely wrong but couldn’t quite put their finger on it. 

On the soul.....Yahweh/Jehovah never taught of an after life—the material world and it jewelry, real estate, {{pleasures}} and descendants is all he / IT promised, and  goal was to  ”get it anyway you can” cuz “there is nothing after this life.”  

"The soul being eternal, after death is like a caged bird that has been released. If it has been a long time in the body, and has become tame by many affairs and long habit, the soul will immediately take another body and once again become involved in the troubles of the world. The worst thing about old age is that the soul's memory of the other world grows dim, while at the same time its attachment to things of this world becomes so strong that the soul tends to retain the form that it had in the body. But that soul which remains only a short time within a body, until liberated by the higher powers, quickly recovers its fire and goes on to higher things."

Could  this be the origin of the axiom “The good die young”? 

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Festina

[Piney]

Just now, Festina said:

On the soul.....Yahweh/Jehovah never taught of an after life—the material world and it jewelry, real estate, {{pleasures}} and descendants is all he / IT promised, and  goal was to  ”get it anyway you can” cuz “there is nothing after this life.”  

Because he was a two bit Canaanite war god smashed together with a two bit Midianite storm god during the Roman Era......The term "Jehovah" is a Medieval "brain fart".....

As for Greek Philosophy. Most of it is over complicating the obvious or outright manure....

[Festina]

22 minutes ago, Piney said:

Because he was a two bit Canaanite war god smashed together with a two bit Midianite storm god during the Roman Era......The term "Jehovah" is a Medieval "brain fart".....

As for Greek Philosophy. Most of it is over complicating the obvious or outright manure....

YHVH — Jehovah, with some adjustments.

Two Bit War God?  — you got that absolutely correct. He is A “third rate potency” and no high ‘God’. 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Festina

[Festina]

36 minutes ago, Piney said:

Because he was a two bit Canaanite war god smashed together with a two bit Midianite storm god during the Roman Era......The term "Jehovah" is a Medieval "brain fart".....

As for Greek Philosophy. Most of it is over complicating the obvious or outright manure....

 

[Festina]

18 minutes ago, Festina said:

 

Laugh all you like.  Your bestest buddy....Page 59

 

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Festina

[Piney]

1 minute ago, Festina said:

Laugh all you like.  Page 59

Gnosticism is funny. It's like giving a mechanical  engineer LSD then telling him to invent a religion. 

[Festina]

5 minutes ago, Piney said:

Gnosticism is funny. It's like giving a mechanical  engineer LSD then telling him to invent a religion. 

You are going to have to accept the facts — sooner or later —  in this life or the next.  The choice is yours. 

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Festina

[+joc]

32 minutes ago, Festina said:

YHVH — Jehovah, with some adjustments.

Two Bit War God?  — you got that absolutely correct. He is A “third rate potency” and no high ‘God’. 

Why do you keep referring to Jehovah at all? It is a ...................   M Y T H .................Festina.....a myth.  Do you get all worked up about Zeus?  Atlas?  Hercules?  The Chinese Dragon that eats the Moon?  Seriously....You give the power to things which actually have no power.  When one gives power to another...it never increase the power of the giver...it can only diminish their power.  Why would you diminish your own power by giving it to a Myth?  

[Piney]

Just now, Festina said:

You are going to have to accept the facts — sooner or later —  in this life or the next.  The choice is yours. 

I'm a Yellow Path Shaman. I don't worship gods. I create them. 

[+joc]

4 minutes ago, Piney said:

I'm a Yellow Path Shaman. I don't worship gods. I create them. 

Honestly though...I mean...she's got a point...only speaking for myself here but...I have always kind of worshiped Simon and Garfunkel... I mean ..The Boxer??? Come on ...that IS a religion!

[Festina]

15 minutes ago, Piney said:

Gnosticism is funny. It's like giving a mechanical  engineer LSD then telling him to invent a religion. 

Some of the early Gnostics were Yawehists — they suspected SOMETHING WAS TERRIBLY WRONG.  

“I have come to save [Rescue]  none [because no others needed rescuing from the occult dictator, Yahweh] but the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel” — Jesus the Christ — whoever he was. 

[Festina]

15 minutes ago, joc said:

Why do you keep referring to Jehovah at all? It is a ...................   M Y T H .................Festina.....a myth.  Do you get all worked up about Zeus?  Atlas?  Hercules?  The Chinese Dragon that eats the Moon?  Seriously....You give the power to things which actually have no power.  When one gives power to another...it never increase the power of the giver...it can only diminish their power.  Why would you diminish your own power by giving it to a Myth?  

 

16 minutes ago, joc said:

Why do you keep referring to Jehovah at all? It is a ...................   M Y T H .................Festina.....a myth.  Do you get all worked up about Zeus?  Atlas?  Hercules?  The Chinese Dragon that eats the Moon?  Seriously....You give the power to things which actually have no power.  When one gives power to another...it never increase the power of the giver...it can only diminish their power.  Why would you diminish your own power by giving it to a Myth?  

MYTH — : a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon.

[Festina]

37 minutes ago, joc said:

Honestly though...I mean...she's got a point...only speaking for myself here but...I have always kind of worshiped Simon and Garfunkel... I mean ..The Boxer??? Come on ...that IS a religion!

You say you “Support Israel” and yet you claim to be an atheist.

Israel's entire existence, survival and supremacy is entirely based on biblical scripture. So then....why do you “support them”?

Edited March 24, 2020 by Festina

[Piney]

24 minutes ago, Festina said:

Some of the early Gnostics were Yawehists — they suspected SOMETHING WAS TERRIBLY WRONG.  

“I have come to save [Rescue]  none [because no others needed rescuing from the occult dictator, Yahweh] but the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel” — Jesus the Christ — whoever he was. 

I don't abide by Gnosticism. There is one Living Universe which is neither good nor evil, but balanced and the only laws it set were the natural ones. 

What did they suspect? Their dualism was idiotic?  

He was made up too. At least his Bible version was.  

The only historical Jesus from that time period was a addle brain doomsayer who was flattened with a rock out of a Roman trebuchet.

[Festina]

25 minutes ago, Piney said:

I don't abide by Gnosticism. There is one Living Universe which is neither good nor evil, but balanced and the only laws it set were the natural ones. 

What did they suspect? Their dualism was idiotic?  

Dualism was meant to be  a “Fun Struggle” and not a “Tortured  Existence”.  IT feeds on misery...

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Festina

[Piney]

1 minute ago, Festina said:

Dualism was meant to be  a “Fun Struggle” and not a “Tortured  Existence”.  IT feeds on misery...

Christianity is dying. It's just going out kicking and screaming. Especially the idiotic American forms of it. Then the subconscious thought forms involved with it will be relegated to story book characters....

[Festina]

7 minutes ago, Piney said:

Christianity is dying. It's just going out kicking and screaming. Especially the idiotic American forms of it. Then the subconscious thought forms involved with it will be relegated to story book characters....

Popular “Christianity”  is dying, and hopefully Islam and Judaism will die along with it.  

Buh bye Yahweh — Abra-CAD-abrah-Ham. 

Hello The Truth — Perfect Knowledge. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Festina

[+joc]

1 hour ago, Festina said:

You say you “Support Israel” and yet you claim to be an atheist.

Israel's entire existence, survival and supremacy is entirely based on biblical scripture. So then....why do you “support them”?

Supporting Israel is not a religious thing.  I don't know why you keep wanting to make it one.  They are our only 'real' ally in the Middle East...but aside from that...and aside from the Holocaust of WWII...why don't you support them?  Are you anti-semitic ?

[Festina]

1 minute ago, joc said:

Supporting Israel is not a religious thing.  I don't know why you keep wanting to make it one.  They are our only 'real' ally in the Middle East...but aside from that...and aside from the Holocaust of WWII...why don't you support them?  Are you anti-semitic ?

Lol.  I knew you would say that.  What is the meaning of anti-semitism?  PLEASE EXPLAIN.

Thank you in advance.

 

 

[Mr Walker]

20 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

For me selective means unwilling to consider broader aspects of an issue objectively and thus limit the quality of a discussion forum rules permitting.

Of course that is what we all do but your environment and mine have significant differences that would account for our objective perceptions and how they have some common elements but vastly different in others. Sometimes I don't have time to trust anything and make a decision based on experience. Read the backside of that print I gave you, Sheri and Liquid Gardens to my face Wilf told me that he loved me because I never said you can't do that to him and I showed him what we needed to do to make that happen.

Yes and I discount that some find him a little bit more frank than others in how he expresses his opinion but in my mind that is not a detriment to how I read his posts.

On this we agree

That may be true and fortunately we can read and learn to step beyond our known understanding of self and as an objective reader I ask and challenge to see the value of a position and do not need to hold one myself which is why myself and others are here as objective observers.

Well really if you look at all of our years of discussion you will find me challenging aspects of religious constructs but I never chastise someone for having that faith in a construct and am more focused on why. Fortunately there are far smarter people who ask my questions first so I can ride in the back top down hair blowing in the wind.

Yeah, well you know I don't have a church and that for me we create potential and realize it and that is god because we create. Pretty simple concept so there doesn't need anyone to die for it, has no problem with science and is adaptable to incite change. Get up put your boots on eat and strap up for another day of unpredictability same as the last thousands of days I opened my eyes.

I have never said that so that is why you can't see it. I question you about what you say even to the point of opening a thread where we could have these discussions without derailing a thread, in that thread we can go anywhere.

jmccr8

Consider

Evaluate 

Select 

Any yes we all should do so to the best of our knowledge understanding and intelligence 

some peole do. Some people dont.  I think you probably do. 

yes i respect and  admire your ability to publish an opinion without judgement  of the opinions of others.

Sometimes of course, we need to judge the outcomes of difernt behaviours Not all behaviours are equal or acceptable 

[+joc]

29 minutes ago, Festina said:

Lol.  I knew you would say that.  What is the meaning of anti-semitism?  PLEASE EXPLAIN.

Thank you in advance.

 

 

an·ti-Sem·i·tism

/ˌan(t)ēˈseməˌtizəm,ˌanˌtīˈseməˌtizəm/

 

noun

 

1. hostility to or prejudice against Jews.

   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

   I am not the one that has to explain anything.   Why do you NOT support Israel is the question?    

    

    

[Mr Walker]

15 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Of course I do.  Faith serves as a security blanket for people who are supposed to be adults. Also your numbering system leaves much to be desired; namely numerals and punctuation.

 I'm sure some pickpockets are lovely company, but that doesn't mean they aren't thieves.

On the contrary, Christianity is always an excuse for thieves and liars to play fast and loose with the gullible, and that encompasses all variations of the faith.  As to my anger, well, how is one supposed to feel about unprosecuted criminals?  And as to your understanding of the holy spirit, nope, not even close.  That is the pap that is served up to laymembers who never do their homework, and is essentially an appeal to their sentimentalism, and as divorced from the holy spirit as your average non-consecrated house brick.  In short, you don't get it.

Well, apparently you have utterly misunderstood the holy spirit, so you are probably safe from being able to sin against it.  Good for you.  You think it is some sort of feel-good-happy-clappy nonsense that makes you feel empowered, when in fact that is just your ego being buoyed up by a release of brain chemistry caused by a reference to ritual. I am happy to say there is absolutely no way you can ever hope to either know or offend against the holy spirit, as the central mystery of Christianity is utterly outside your experience, and you are a mere enthusiast.

So you are saying that they don't actually exist, and are allegories?  Then why pretend they do?

Card Zero, and good luck to you.  Don't worry about the actual doctrine, you just carry on cherry picking.  Hell is only in your mind, but what happens to your mind when you die with false doctrine?

Don't kid yourself.  Christ didn't come to abolish the law, but to complete it with even more restrictions and clarifications.  No doubt you will go to hell for wearing synthetic blends.

Yours is a god that claims to be a god of love, but is actually a god of ruthless hatred who demands utter slavery of worshippers on pain of eternal torment for finite infractions.  I don't happen to believe in that deity, but you should, because that is what you are actually worshipping.  You worship the epitome of totalitarian savagery, bus somehow expect it to be "nice" to you.  Was Stalin "nice" to his followers?  Or did he use and dispose of them at his convenience like so much toilet paper?

I make no secret of this obvious fact.  Do you dispute it?  Seriously?

Well, what can I say ? I can point out the obvious, but some people are determined to be fooled all of the time no matter what, and treat a helpful hint that they should reconsider their position as a personal affront.  Of course THEY can't be fooled.  THEY aren't the gullible ones.  The con artists haven't fooled THEM.  Which is exactly the narcissistic arrogance that a con artist relies upon in their victims in order to continue their grift.

Actually no.  They are not part of the brain that activates during a religious service is the part of the brain that activates during night terrors.  All the same, it is just brain chemistry being activated, nothing miraculous is going on.  Religions are cultural btw, and not a product of biological evolution save that they are subject to cultural evolution.  Suffice to say that the religion of Jesus has nothing to do with what Christians today are doing.

Are we talking Simony or Spiritual Materialism?  Or just the straight con of using religion to separate fools from their money?

This is what confirms me in atheism every day.  I look at these terrified conformist religious herd cretins, all desperately looking to other people to okay their actions, all coughing up their hard earned dough as willing victims of an insidious form of class warfare waged by a class of malignant narcissists who rape their children, and I feel pretty good about my choices in life.  Doubt is infinitely more healthy than belief.

But then they will burn in hell for all eternity as that is what they are programmed to do.

Security blanket is a value laden word It is actually a psychological mechanism to allow humans to deal with all we know about life, death, pain, suffering etc. 

IMO only a stupid person would choose to  suffer /deal with, pain grief suffering etc if the y had an alternative

  However we have other mechanisms apart from religion.

Every human constructs and uses one (or more)  of them.

Religion is just common, easy and effective.

Im not going to comment on your beliefs because the y are a product of your own experiences and choices.

Either you are basically negative  cynical and disillusioned  in general or you are just like that with religion   (maybe from  childhood experiences) 

Needless to say, I don't accept religion  as negative, controlling, authoritarian etc  because i have never experienced that from  it. I see it as a support mechanism for people who need it 

Yep its all brain chemistry but we can chose direct and shape that chemistry to serve our own ends Eg Ive lived 70 years and never once had a night terror  Basically evolution has shaped tha t brain chemistry for positive survival purposes which is why it is universal in humans.  BUT as we learn more we can shape and adapt and  reutilise the brain chemistry  so as not to believe but to act logically  without belief eg we no longer have to propitiate  the gods of thunder and lightning to feel safe. We use knowledge .

I have no expectations of "god" I speak of how our relationship IS 

Again your own prejudices cause confirmation bias and reconfirm and strengthen your negative attitudes  There is no hell apart from  the one we can create in our minds and lives by wrong choices and wrong thoughts. eg guilt can cause hell in your mind. But guilt is not necessary if you think, and do, what  you know is right 

 and lol are you claiming to know the nature of the holy spirit from experience or simply saying i do not know it, because my experience doesnt  match what you uTHINK it should be like Or are you just a bit jealous and angry at the thought that anyone might be protected and empowered by this force while you are not 

Like a person who cannot love but is jealous of anyone who does, and then clam is love is not real, to justify his own lack of it .  

Actually what DO you think the power of the spirit is like when it enters into a human being  ?  What things do you  believe it can do for the human mind and body? 

 That name (holy spirit)  is just a christians name for a very real and powerful force, but yes it has "possessed me since i was about 13.  it is the living communicating, and powerful agency of "god," or as i know it , "The cosmic consciousness"  

Edited March 24, 2020 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

4 hours ago, Piney said:

Except Moses didn't exist.

The Egyptians never practiced Gematria which didn't exist until about 200 AD

The Hebrews and Judaism have no concept of Spiritual Energy.

.....Yet the Egyptians did. 

The old testament (and thus judaism) is filed with references to the holy spirit by one name or another  That is their version of spiritual energy. It comes from  god, and enters into people, allowing them to perform miracles, be empowered, healed etc. 

https://www.thomasnelsonbibles.com/the-holy-spirit-in-the-old-testament/

 

[Festina]

34 minutes ago, joc said:

an·ti-Sem·i·tism

/ˌan(t)ēˈseməˌtizəm,ˌanˌtīˈseməˌtizəm/

 

noun

 

1. hostility to or prejudice against Jews.

   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

   I am not the one that has to explain anything.   Why do you NOT support Israel is the question?    

    

    

Are you saying I’m not allowed to criticize the Jews?  Seriously?  Lol

I am critical of all the Abrahamic religions and their dopey followers.  Perhaps a bit More so of Judaism because they started it..and  it’s their tribal god  — and they call themselves Israel.  They could have named themselves Chaldel or something else — But they didnt.  Their name is biblical — Yahwehist — named for the incalculably  malevolent bloodthirsty bigoted War god of the Bible.  And because they made female prostitution legal in 1948 and male prostitution legal in 1969 — Hypocrites to boot.  Vile.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Festina

[Piney]

1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

The old testament (and thus judaism) is filed with references to the holy spirit by one name or another  That is their version of spiritual energy. It comes from  god, and enters into people, allowing them to perform miracles, be empowered, healed etc. 

https://www.thomasnelsonbibles.com/the-holy-spirit-in-the-old-testament/

I'm trying not to answer you, especially after your use of Ken Ham as a reference but I will answer this stupid.

The reference used is the King James, i.e. "The Worlds Shittiest Translation" and most of these quotes are taken out of context. 

None of the Canaanite spiritual traditions, including Judaism had a concept of "spiritual energy", not even after Greek influence, Any Rabbi will tell you this. 

Now stop quoting me because I won't answer. 

1 hour ago, joc said:

Supporting Israel is not a religious thing.  I don't know why you keep wanting to make it one.  They are our only 'real' ally in the Middle East...but aside from that...and aside from the Holocaust of WWII...why don't you support them?  Are you anti-semitic ?

Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitism.

https://www.truetorahjews.org/mission