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The Work that God does

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Piney
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

The old testament (and thus judaism) is filed with references to the holy spirit by one name or another  That is their version of spiritual energy. It comes from  god, and enters into people, allowing them to perform miracles, be empowered, healed etc. 

https://www.thomasnelsonbibles.com/the-holy-spirit-in-the-old-testament/

I'm trying not to answer you, especially after your use of Ken Ham as a reference but I will answer this stupid.

The reference used is the King James, i.e. "The Worlds Shittiest Translation" and most of these quotes are taken out of context. 

None of the Canaanite spiritual traditions, including Judaism had a concept of "spiritual energy", not even after Greek influence, Any Rabbi will tell you this. 

Now stop quoting me because I won't answer. :rolleyes:

1 hour ago, joc said:

Supporting Israel is not a religious thing.  I don't know why you keep wanting to make it one.  They are our only 'real' ally in the Middle East...but aside from that...and aside from the Holocaust of WWII...why don't you support them?  Are you anti-semitic ?

Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitism.

https://www.truetorahjews.org/mission

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DieChecker
25 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

The old testament (and thus judaism) is filed with references to the holy spirit by one name or another  That is their version of spiritual energy. It comes from  god, and enters into people, allowing them to perform miracles, be empowered, healed etc. 

https://www.thomasnelsonbibles.com/the-holy-spirit-in-the-old-testament/

 

True. What is called the Holy Spirit came to select individuals in the OT. Mostly to the kings, and prophets. 

After Jesus rose and ascended, the Apostles were waiting for something. And at Pentecost is when the Holy Spirit came to them all, and to all Christians. So the Holy Spirit exists in everyone. Every Christisn has the potential of being a prophet and priest.

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DieChecker
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Festina said:

You say you “Support Israel” and yet you claim to be an atheist.

Israel's entire existence, survival and supremacy is entirely based on biblical scripture. So then....why do you “support them”?

I thought it was based on them buying up a third of their ancient lands before WW2, and the after the Holocaust, The UN gave them more of Palestine. Then when the arabs rise up and brought war against them, the jews cleaned their clocks and captured the rest of their ancestral lands.

So... Israel is about...

Money... Holocaust... War...

And as a extremely useful (strategic) ally in the Middle East.

Edited by DieChecker

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DieChecker

Anything involving a Demiurge is gnosticism. Could be "Christian" gnostism, but that is considered a cult branch by all the mainstream denominations. 

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Festina
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I thought it was based on them buying up a third of their ancient lands before WW2, and the after the Holocaust, The UN gave them more of Palestine. Then when the arabs rise up and brought war against them, the jews cleaned their clocks and captured the rest of their ancestral lands.

So... Israel is about...

Money... Holocaust... War...

And as a extremely useful (strategic) ally in the Middle East.

The Allies...of Yahweh

Israel — fundamentalist Yahwehist  Judaism

United States — Fundamentalist Judaic Christianity

Saudi Arabia — Fundamentalist Wahhabi  Islam 

It’s about The Machiavellian Abrahamic Trinity of Yahweh — THE BLOODTHIRSTY MALEVOLENT WAR GOD OF ISRAELITES. 

 

 

Edited by Festina
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joc
56 minutes ago, Festina said:

Are you saying I’m not allowed to criticize the Jews?  Seriously?  Lol

I am critical of all the Abrahamic religions and their dopey followers

It is perfectly fine to be critical of any religion.  Because they all have their faults.  They all have their virtues as well.  Hatred of a religion is one thing.  Hatred of the believers of a religion is something completely else.  And hatred of the Jews is Anti-Semitism.  Perhaps...what do I know I'm from Texas...before criticizing someone else's back yard, one should first take a look around their own.

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Guyver
41 minutes ago, joc said:

It is perfectly fine to be critical of any religion.  Because they all have their faults.  They all have their virtues as well.  Hatred of a religion is one thing.  Hatred of the believers of a religion is something completely else.  And hatred of the Jews is Anti-Semitism.  Perhaps...what do I know I'm from Texas...before criticizing someone else's back yard, one should first take a look around their own.

You’re from Texas?  Nice.  I did not know that.  ZzTop is from Texas and they are fricken great.  Stevie Ray Vaughn and many other great performers were from Texas.  Texas is an amazing state.  I like it there.  I was stationed at Fort Hood when I was in the Army and got on the boxing team.  Fond memories.  

Anyway, this has nothing to do with the thread topic, so....I’m off topic.  Anyway, I could say that what I meant to say is that you are right it proper to be critical of all religions and that would tie me back in.

I had fun times in Texas, and plenty of crazy times that I will never forget.

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joc
19 minutes ago, Guyver said:

I had fun times in Texas, and plenty of crazy times that I will never forget.

Yep, Texas is a great state.  ZZ Top, Stevie Ray, Jack Ingram and Ray Wylie Hubbard to name a few...

Thanks, come visit anytime...key word being...visit... lol

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Mr Walker
1 hour ago, Piney said:

Christianity is dying. It's just going out kicking and screaming. Especially the idiotic American forms of it. Then the subconscious thought forms involved with it will be relegated to story book characters....

I very much doubt this 

It may and probably will evolve but it remains a highly functional  faith for technological and post  technological societies.

The numbers demographics and trends don't show a lessening of christianity world wide although believers have begun to shop around for faiths which fit them personally  

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Piney
6 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I very much doubt this 

It may and probably will evolve but it remains a highly functional  faith for technological and post  technological societies.

The numbers demographics and trends don't show a lessening of christianity world wide although believers have begun to shop around for faiths which fit them personally  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Christianity

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Alchopwn
10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Security blanket is a value laden word It is actually a psychological mechanism to allow humans to deal with all we know about life, death, pain, suffering etc. 

You bet it's a value laden word; adult humans shouldn't behave like pathetic whining infants who need someone to hold their hand and watch them poop.

10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

IMO only a stupid person would choose to  suffer /deal with, pain grief suffering etc if they had an alternative

So in your opinion, running away from difficult emotions is better than working thru them like an adult?  How enlightened...  for a roe deer.  Not so enlightened for an adult human.

10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

However we have other mechanisms apart from religion.  Every human constructs and uses one (or more)  of them.  Religion is just common, easy and effective.

So by religion, here, what you really mean is the placebo effect, right?  Do what the witchdoctor says ant it will all be okay?

10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Im not going to comment on your beliefs because the y are a product of your own experiences and choices.

Either you are basically negative  cynical and disillusioned  in general or you are just like that with religion   (maybe from  childhood experiences) 

So you say you won't comment on my beliefs and then you do.  Isn't that called lying?  That is a symptom of a toxic personality Mr Walker.

10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Needless to say, I don't accept religion  as negative, controlling, authoritarian etc  because i have never experienced that from  it. I see it as a support mechanism for people who need it 

Needless to say, you don't accept the Communist party as negative, controlling, authoritarian etc either,  because you have never experienced that from  it. You see it as a support mechanism for people who need it too.  Who cares about the body count?

10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Yep its all brain chemistry but we can chose direct and shape that chemistry to serve our own ends Eg Ive lived 70 years and never once had a night terror  Basically evolution has shaped tha t brain chemistry for positive survival purposes which is why it is universal in humans.  BUT as we learn more we can shape and adapt and  reutilise the brain chemistry  so as not to believe but to act logically  without belief eg we no longer have to propitiate  the gods of thunder and lightning to feel safe. We use knowledge .

So why do you still propitiate the god of thunder and lightning then?

10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I have no expectations of "god" I speak of how our relationship IS 

When did you join IS?

10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Again your own prejudices cause confirmation bias and reconfirm and strengthen your negative attitudes  There is no hell apart from  the one we can create in our minds and lives by wrong choices and wrong thoughts. eg guilt can cause hell in your mind. But guilt is not necessary if you think, and do, what  you know is right 

You entirely missed the point as usual.  YOU are the one who believes this religious nonsense.  YOU are the one indulging in confirmation bias.  YOU are the one wasting your family's funds on a wild goose chase after a Sky Dictator who was never there, because you need to feel safe from death.  It's YOUR narcissistic delusion that you even deserve to survive after death.  For me, we die and it's all over, and I'm fine with that, because it's the unavoidable truth.  I don't need to placate  fictional characters to feel better about myself, in fact I consider such acts to be extremely absurd.  Praying to Jesus is about as sensible as praying to Mickey Mouse.  I am glad to hear that guilt will cause hell in your mind tho, because you deserve to feel guilty about spreading lies.  I know that is right.

10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

and lol are you claiming to know the nature of the holy spirit from experience or simply saying i do not know it, because my experience doesnt  match what you uTHINK it should be like Or are you just a bit jealous and angry at the thought that anyone might be protected and empowered by this force while you are not 

I sure am claiming to know that.  I have spent a good deal of time in the Middle East translating documents, many of them religious.  As a result, I have been clued into things about many religions that most people are completely unaware of.  This is not the same as believing in those religions, but it does mean I have privileged info that you don't have.  Instead you are just another naive enthusiast of a moribund protestantism who receives a hand-me-down religion that he doesn't understand, and thinks he knows it all.

10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Like a person who cannot love but is jealous of anyone who does, and then clam is love is not real, to justify his own lack of it . :) 

Like a person stuck in a loveless marriage, you look on in jealousy at someone who hooks up with multiple beautiful and intellectually challenging partners every year of their jetset lifestyle, and assumes they don't know the value of love and commitment.  Perhaps they don't?  But perhaps your version of life and reality doesn't measure up tho?

11 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Actually what DO you think the power of the spirit is like when it enters into a human being  ?  What things do you  believe it can do for the human mind and body? 

Immediately you are asking for descriptions of sensation, unaware of the implications that carries.

11 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

That name (holy spirit)  is just a christians name for a very real and powerful force, but yes it has "possessed me since i was about 13.  it is the living communicating, and powerful agency of "god," or as i know it , "The cosmic consciousness"  

Were you "slain in the soul" at that time?:lol:

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DieChecker
16 hours ago, Festina said:

The Allies...of Yahweh

Israel — fundamentalist Yahwehist  Judaism

United States — Fundamentalist Judaic Christianity

Saudi Arabia — Fundamentalist Wahhabi  Islam 

It’s about The Machiavellian Abrahamic Trinity of Yahweh — THE BLOODTHIRSTY MALEVOLENT WAR GOD OF ISRAELITES. 

 

 

Yeah... ughhhh...

I'm not sure how to respond to that without using several trigger words relating to "crazy".

The only "blood" I've ever spilt was actually grape juice from the Communion.

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Festina
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

Yeah... ughhhh...

I'm not sure how to respond to that without using several trigger words relating to "crazy".

The only "blood" I've ever spilt was actually grape juice from the Communion.

It’s not about you as an individual, it’s about the collectives of the past and the present.  Just Two examples but I have lots more....

“Onward Christian soldiers, marching off to WAR”. :whistle:

Circumcision of males  in the US, and of males and females Middle East and Africa, which are prescribed for religious reasons.  

Edited by Festina
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Alchopwn
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Festina said:

The Allies...of Yahweh

Israel — fundamentalist Yahwehist  Judaism

United States — Fundamentalist Judaic Christianity

Saudi Arabia — Fundamentalist Wahhabi  Islam 

It’s about The Machiavellian Abrahamic Trinity of Yahweh — THE BLOODTHIRSTY MALEVOLENT WAR GOD OF ISRAELITES. 

I would describe Yahweh as more schizophrenic than malevolent, given that he has allegedly promulgated these three mutually hostile schismatic doctrines who are involved in a race to the bottom in terms of atrocity mongering.  On the other hand most of the schizophrenics I know are actually just decent and sensitive people with brains that malfunction on them from time to time.

Edited by Alchopwn
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Festina
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

I would describe Yahweh as more schizophrenic than malevolent, given that he has allegedly promulgated these three mutually hostile schismatic doctrines who are involved in a race to the bottom in terms of atrocity mongering.  On the other hand most of the schizophrenics I know are actually just decent and sensitive people with brains that malfunction on them from time to time.

Why do you blaspheme “schizophrenics” comparing  them to Yahweh?  :D  I know a few as well, very good  and VERY interesting peeps.  I can’t speak for the entire community but only my personal experience. I hate labels of this sort....who decides what people are and attaches such negative labels? Politicians are liars, murderers and thieves.  Poli [people] tics [parasite].

Yahweh [perpetrator]  is malevolent.  The Scribes and many followers of religions to some extent were and are most likely schizophrenics who inserted the teachings of other religions into their teachings to make it palatable to their audience — victims of IT’s  negative influences.  

Edited by Festina

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Piney
12 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

So you say you won't comment on my beliefs and then you do.  Isn't that called lying?  That is a symptom of a toxic personality Mr Walker

 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ultracrepidarianism

 

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joc
2 hours ago, Piney said:

:tu:

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joc
6 hours ago, Festina said:

I hate labels of this sort....who decides what people are and attaches such negative labels? Politicians are liars, murderers and thieves.

Black/Kettle  Kettle/Black  Kettle/Kettle  Black/Black

...what's the matter with you to take this far nonsense?  Now, which is it?  Ah'm not shore of it...

 

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19_Kilo
On 3/16/2020 at 5:40 AM, Alchopwn said:

The universe makes a lot more sense without a guiding divine intelligence than with one superimposed onto facts that make more sense without such.  

I have a simple example of why this is wrong:  Birth defects.  Just because you were lucky, doesn't mean everybody is.  If God wants us to enjoy the world, why include birth defects that cripple you unfairly before your life has even begun?  Face facts, we live in a staggeringly immense, random and  uncaring universe, where we are each a miniscule speck on a tiny world orbiting a small sun in a medium sized galaxy that is one of thousands of billions, and we are scarcely more important than the microbes that we kill every time we breathe in.

Amen. (See what I did there?)

And we homo sapiens are likely less important for our planet's well-being than microbes are, since about 95% of them are beneficial.

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029b10
On 3/23/2020 at 7:24 PM, Piney said:

. There is one Living Universe which is neither good nor evil, but balanced and the only laws it set were the natural ones. 

So who created the living universe?  If the universe had always existed then wouldn't it reflect an eternal nature yet every living thing in the known and observed universe reflects a mortal nature.  Since ex nihilo nihil fit says that nothing comes from nothing, then any explanation on how the living universe came into existence?

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DieChecker
9 hours ago, Festina said:

It’s not about you as an individual, it’s about the collectives of the past and the present.  Just Two examples but I have lots more....

“Onward Christian soldiers, marching off to WAR”. :whistle:

Circumcision of males  in the US, and of males and females Middle East and Africa, which are prescribed for religious reasons.  

Most Christian's stopped following the practice of circumcision in the 1st century.

I have no claims on what the Islamic savages do in Africa. I consider them badly misguided as regards religion.

I suppose youd rather those Christian soldiers didnt go against Hitler?

Quote

When Winston Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt met in August 1941 on the battleship HMS Prince of Wales to agree the Atlantic Charter, a church service was held for which Prime Minister Churchill chose the hymns. He chose "Onward, Christian Soldiers" and afterwards made a radio broadcast explaining this choice:[7]

We sang "Onward, Christian Soldiers" indeed, and I felt that this was no vain presumption, but that we had the right to feel that we were serving a cause for the sake of which a trumpet has sounded from on high. When I looked upon that densely packed congregation of fighting men of the same language, of the same faith, of the same fundamental laws, of the same ideals ... it swept across me that here was the only hope, but also the sure hope, of saving the world from measureless degradation.

— Winston Churchill

Also it is the March song of the Salvstion Army. Are you anti-Salvation Army? After all, it says "Army" in the name.

It's also a theme song for the US civil rights movement. Are you anti-civil rights?

Onward, Christian Soldiers - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onward,_Christian_Soldiers

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DieChecker
9 hours ago, Festina said:

....who decides what people are and attaches such negative labels? Politicians are liars, murderers and thieves. 

Seriously? Do you not see what you posted here?

... comment on negative labels...

...negatively labels people...

Quote

Yahweh [perpetrator] is malevolent.

I'm sure all the evil people would agree. Murderers, rapists, child abusers... All doubtless believe religion to be unfair and wrong.

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Piney
4 hours ago, 029b10 said:

So who created the living universe?  If the universe had always existed then wouldn't it reflect an eternal nature yet every living thing in the known and observed universe reflects a mortal nature.  Since ex nihilo nihil fit says that nothing comes from nothing, then any explanation on how the living universe came into existence?

It always existed and renews itself (Big Bang-Big Collapse-Big Bang-and so on)

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joc
On 3/23/2020 at 8:01 PM, Festina said:

Popular “Christianity”  is dying, and hopefully Islam and Judaism will die along with it.  

Buh bye Yahweh — Abra-CAD-abrah-Ham. 

Hello The Truth — Perfect Knowledge. 

You are OCD with fascination for your own revelation of the 'truth'.   I see virtually no difference in what your version of truth is and the version of truth that the religious faithful see. 

Your version says you have the correct answer...and you feel a deep seated need to preach that version of truth to the world at large, and expect the world to come running to your version and accept it as Gospel.  The version of the Faithful is absolutely no different whatsoever.  They believe their version of Jesus saving the world is correct and they too feel a deep seated need to preach their truth to the world.

The actual truth...is right before our eyes.  It's called the Universe.  It is equally as small as it is large and has no real beginning or end.  It rules itself according to things that can be.  We do not know all things that can be.  But we do know considerably many things that can NOT be.

What needs to go away is the whole mindset of MY truth is right and YOUR truth is wrong.  There really is no 'truth'.  There is only what IS.  Some us just refer to that as ...reality.

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jmccr8
4 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Most Christian's stopped following the practice of circumcision in the 1st century.

Hi Diechecker

Not sure where you are getting this from but this was wgat I got.

The overall rate among U.S. males age 14 to 59 is 81 percent, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.)Apr 2, 2014

jmccr8

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