Gender-neutral passports legal case tossed

[itsnotoutthere]

1 hour ago, Rupert bear said:

Masculine, feminine, they are genetic facts, chromosome facts. I'll allow for neutral but anything else is mental disorder and why world governments are giving weight to the transgender movement is anyone's guess but it is reckless and stupid. 

Agreed, and its political.

[Setton]

3 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Well, thats the problem, science is ignored on this subject.

It certainly is. You are living proof of that. 

[Setton]

1 hour ago, Rupert bear said:

Masculine, feminine, they are genetic facts, chromosome facts. 

No. Male and female (as in biological sex) are genetic facts. Masculine and feminine are inherently social constructs. 

Anyone who has ventured even vaguely outside modern Western society recognises this. 

[Duke Wellington]

On this topic Russia has the correct approach with its banning of gay propaganda.

That isn`t the criminalisation of homosexuals, just stopping the normalisation of it by pressure interest groups in the media. We have a duty of care towards our population yet weak leadership has abandoned it on this topic to win votes.

Edited March 15, 2020 by RabidMongoose

[rashore]

Thread cleaned. Folks keep your commentary civil, on topic, and within the rules you all agreed to abide by as members here.

[FLOMBIE]

On 3/13/2020 at 8:49 PM, hetrodoxly said:

Transgender people and the woke kids are in our face not just insisting how we refer to them but how we think (already posted on here) yesterday morning  Lisa Nandy labour party leader candidate was asked on TV if 'Usain Bolt' identified as a women should he be allowed to run in the Woman's race, she refused to give him an answer.

So what is your general concern? Transgender people, who swap their genders; gender neutral people, like intersex people; or is it one of the many made up genders? Or are you only worried about unfair advantages sports? To me, those are all different issues. 

And are they really "in your face"? This is mostly just online talk, isn't it?

[hetrodoxly]

15 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

So what is your general concern?

Don't insist i get involved, have no concern if i think you're male or female.

 

15 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

worried about unfair advantages sports? To me, those are all different issues. 

Yes and yes.

 

15 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

And are they really "in your face"? This is mostly just online talk, isn't it?

People in the UK have been arrested for 'misgendering' or should that be mrsgendering i suppose that depends on if they're married or not.

The BBC have these people on debating and berating regularly, i've not seen one of this small minority on TV since we had the real problem of the virus.  

Edited April 4, 2020 by hetrodoxly

[FLOMBIE]

11 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

Don't insist i get involved, have no concern if i think you're male or female.

 

Yes and yes.

 

People in the UK have been arrested for 'misgendering' or should the be mrsgendering i suppose that depends on if they're married or not.

The BBC have these people on debating and berating regularly, i've not seen one of this small minority on TV since we had the real problem of the virus.  

You are involved in this threat, so I figured I asked you what the real concern is here. I want to be on topic. But what about intersex people? Thsoe with birth defects who own genetalia that is inbetween the two sexes? These people certainly exist, and many of them would like a third, neutral, gender to be their own. A fair request, in my eyes. This is very different to the "woke 72 gender" cloud, which kind of died out anyway. And a gender swap is okay anyway, I guess. 

The sports thing is definitely something that has to be made clear. It makes no sense for female trans athletes breaking records, for instance. But I have to say, I can understand the trans athletes wanting to compete with the gender they identify with - but is it just? In terms of fairness, it certainly isn't.

Is it deliberate, constant misgendering, i.e. bullying, or do people get arrested for unknowingly misgendering someone? Because that is a significant difference. One is harrassment, the other one is a mistake  Being married makes it different? That's weird. 

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by FLOMBIE

[hetrodoxly]

18 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

what the real concern is here. I want to be on topic

What i stated in my last post.

 

18 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

But what about intersex people? Thsoe with birth defects who own genetalia that is inbetween the two sexes?

What ever the correct term is i'll refer to them as that, i don't know of any personally but if i did i'd call them whatever they wanted to be called and that would be by choice.

 

18 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

in my eyes. This is very different to the "woke 72 gender" cloud, which kind of died out anyway

Also in my eyes, if it's died i'm very pleased but you need to inform some of the British media.

Edited April 4, 2020 by hetrodoxly

[FLOMBIE]

7 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

What i stated in my last post.

 

What ever the correct term is i'll refer to them as that, i don't know of any personally but if i did i'd call them whatever they wanted to be called and that would be by choice.

 

Also in my eyes, if it's died i'm very pleased but you need to inform some of the British media.

So you have no further info on the misgendering case? Would agree that misgendering can be harassment? And I am really confused about the being married thing. 

So you would be okay with a third gender, then? I mean that this gender would be legally installed for intersex people. Because many of them do not identify with either gender, since they aren't really either one. 

The media clickbaits us to hell with stuff likes this. It gets you going, gets you engaged and that sells. But have you ever had someone talking to you about this in real life? I haven't. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by FLOMBIE

[hetrodoxly]

18 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

And a gender swap is okay anyway, I guess.

What anyone want's to do with their body is no concern of mine, as what i think of it is no concern of theirs

 

22 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

Is it deliberate, constant misgendering, i.e. bullying, or do people get arrested for unknowingly misgendering someone? Because that is a significant difference. One is harrassment, the other one is a mistake  Being married makes it different? That's weird. 

 There's many cases, the one that stands out is a guy who i believe retweeted a poem, the police phoned him to 'Check his thinking' the case went to court and he won it, but some people have ended up in prison. 

19 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

 

 

[FLOMBIE]

They ended up in prison for what? There has to be a legal guideline to what is harassment, and what's not. That the accused in your example had been acquitted hints to that. 

A poem can be harassment as well, just saying. We have anti defemation laws for a reason. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by FLOMBIE

[hetrodoxly]

2 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

So you have no further info on the misgendering case? Would agree that misgendering can be harassment? And I am really confused about the being married thing. 

The married thing was a joke, Miss guided, Mrs guided, do you ot change the title if your married or not in Germany?

The case of the guy who had the phone call to check his thinking is on here, do a search.

[hetrodoxly]

2 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

They ended up in prison for what? There has to be a legal guideline to what is harassment, and what's not. That the accused in you example had been acquitted hints to that. 

The one off the top of my head is a woman called Amy, went to prison for saying 'have a gay day' to a transgender person, google it.

Edited April 4, 2020 by hetrodoxly

[FLOMBIE]

Just now, hetrodoxly said:

The married thing was a joke, Miss guided, Mrs guided, do you ot change the title if your married or not in Germany?

The case of the guy who had the phone call to check his thinking is on here, do a search.

Oh, that flew over my head! Sorry, mate. But no, we do not change the title anymore. It's both "Frau". Because "Fräulein", the equivalent to miss, is a diminutive. 

I am more interested in the arrests, though. Because that would point to what is actually an offence.

[FLOMBIE]

3 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

The one off the top of my head is a woman called Amy, went to prison for saying 'have a gay day' to a transgender person, google it.

Is it this? That is certainly a case of defemation. 

[hetrodoxly]

2 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

Is it this? That is certainly a case of defemation. 

That's just one of many like that, Polly Parker is another one, she a left wing activist, the one i've mentioned actually went to prison.

[FLOMBIE]

10 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

What anyone want's to do with their body is no concern of mine, as what i think of it is no concern of theirs.

I don't really understand this. I guess people transition for themselves. I want to be careful here, because I certainly not want to accuse you of anything, but lets say there is a non-passing trans person interacting with you. You misgender them - an honest mistake, you couldn't see it - and they correct you. Would you then call them by the gender they identify with? I think that is all most of them want.

[FLOMBIE]

3 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

That's just one of many like that, Polly Parker is another one, she a left wing activist, the one i've mentioned actually went to prison.

The one I quoted is harassment, though. Can you see that this can be harassment?

Edit: Polly Parker is one mean b*tch. How can you talk to a child like that? Even if I don't agree with having kids going through transgenderism, I do not think that this is okay. Especially not for a teacher. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by FLOMBIE

[hetrodoxly]

4 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

I don't really understand this. I guess people transition for themselves. I want to be careful here, because I certainly not want to accuse you of anything, but lets say there is a non-passing trans person interacting with you. You misgender them - an honest mistake, you couldn't see it - and they correct you. Would you then call them by the gender they identify with? I think that is all most of them want.

Are you saying i should pretend how i think.

[hetrodoxly]

4 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

The one I quoted is harassment, though. Can you see that this can be harassment?

Yes it can be, there appears to be a lot of gender baiting also the crime should fit the punishment.

[FLOMBIE]

12 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

Yes it can be, there appears to be a lot of gender baiting also the crime should fit the punishment.

Are you arguing for an eye for an eye here? Prison seems very harsh. a fine, and maybe even personal injury compensation.

[FLOMBIE]

15 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

Are you saying i should pretend how i think.

"Hi, my name is hetrodoxly." 

- "No, you look like a Tom."

"No, it's hetrodoxly!"

- "Okay, Tom."

 

That's how I see it. It's not like you'd have to go out of your way, or something. When you know, you know, and it's basic human decency. Do you know people who hate their given name, and want to be refered to only by their nickname? People generally do that; if they are not jerks. But if hey switch genders, it's wrong? It doesn't even change your thinking.

[hetrodoxly]

2 hours ago, FLOMBIE said:

"Hi, my name is hetrodoxly." 

- "No, you look like a Tom."

"No, it's hetrodoxly!"

- "Okay, Tom."

It wouldn't bother me, call me what you like, you might find it annoying but it shouldn't be a crime.

 

2 hours ago, FLOMBIE said:

That's how I see it. It's not like you'd have to go out of your way, or something. When you know, you know, and it's basic human decency. Do you know people who hate their given name, and want to be refered to only by their nickname? People generally do that; if they are not jerks. But if hey switch genders, it's wrong? It doesn't even change your thinking.

I'd probably find it difficult to not burst out laughing calling a guy with a full beard and lipstick 'she' but if i knew them i'd do it, i don't want to be told i have to do it and how i should think, it stinks of 1984.

[FLOMBIE]

8 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

It wouldn't bother me, call me what you like, you might find it annoying but it shouldn't be a crime.

 

I'd probably find it difficult to not burst out laughing calling a guy with a full beard and lipstick 'she' but if i knew them i'd do it, i don't want to be told i have to do it and how i should think, it stinks of 1984.

It has nothing to do with 1984. Have you even read that book?

it's great that you don't care. Others do! It's about being decent to OTHER PEOPLE. 

Do you really think that is asking much of you? Let me tell you something: I am a hetero man. I am into women, real women and not trans women, and I don't even know if I can perceive those as regular women, but calling them she doesn't have anything to do with it. They want it, I do it, no biggie. And it certainly doesn't change my way of thinking. How would it?

I have never seen a transsexual with a full beard. Only drag queens, and they are just dressing up. By the way, I am not talking about the loonies here. I bet you've come across a few trans people and didn't even notice it.