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stereologist

Corona virus conspiracies

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bee

 

I'm afraid that the whole situation, with hydroxychloroquine and coronavirus mixed in with Trump's endorsement is hopelessly politicized -

Trump is demonized by the MSM and detractors.. it's no wonder that Raoult is also getting the treatment now..

Lies, damned lies and statistics... I expect even clinical trials can be corrupted and compromised to try to take the narrative in a certain direction.. and who wants to lose funding and career advancement by going against the strong push to dismiss hydroxychloroquine and try to make out it's dangerous....?...


Especially when the stakes are so high.... ie the presidential election coming up and the push for global? mandatory vaccination  -

This video is from the end of April but I expect the situation hasn't changed all that much...

basically there is a huge trust issue regarding all this.... and that even includes clinical trials.. 

the last thing.... the very last thing that the biased MSM and Trump detractors want (or will allow) is that he was right about HCQ
in any way and I think they would even somehow get trials shut down rather than allow good results to come out...

like I said there is a huge trust issue... and the WHO is included in that...

 

 

 

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Scholar4Truth

My favorite is that Coronavirus is caused by 5G technology.

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Obviousman

@hacktorp In all seriousness: is there a 'popular' conspiracy which you do NOT believe in / support?

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jaylemurph
15 minutes ago, Obviousman said:

@hacktorp In all seriousness: is there a 'popular' conspiracy which you do NOT believe in / support?

Nope. Not even the ones that contradict each other. He learned that trick from the christians. 

—Jaylemurph 

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stereologist
6 hours ago, bee said:

 

I'm afraid that the whole situation, with hydroxychloroquine and coronavirus mixed in with Trump's endorsement is hopelessly politicized -

Trump is demonized by the MSM and detractors.. it's no wonder that Raoult is also getting the treatment now..

Lies, damned lies and statistics... I expect even clinical trials can be corrupted and compromised to try to take the narrative in a certain direction.. and who wants to lose funding and career advancement by going against the strong push to dismiss hydroxychloroquine and try to make out it's dangerous....?...


Especially when the stakes are so high.... ie the presidential election coming up and the push for global? mandatory vaccination  -

This video is from the end of April but I expect the situation hasn't changed all that much...

basically there is a huge trust issue regarding all this.... and that even includes clinical trials.. 

the last thing.... the very last thing that the biased MSM and Trump detractors want (or will allow) is that he was right about HCQ
in any way and I think they would even somehow get trials shut down rather than allow good results to come out...

like I said there is a huge trust issue... and the WHO is included in that...

 

 

 

Did you miss that Raoult experimented on children? Suggesting that " it's no wonder that Raoult is also getting the treatment now." missed the point that he is a criminal.

HCQ does not apear to work but has been called a cure by some. That is not political. That is just an out and out falsehood.

Now Trump says he might take insulin. What is he thinking?

You think this is true: "basically there is a huge trust issue regarding all this.... and that even includes clinical trials.. ", or is this just more anti-science sentiment because Trump has been so foolish?

https://nypost.com/2020/05/26/president-trump-says-i-dont-use-insulin-should-i-be/

Quote

“I don’t use insulin. Should I be? Huh? I never thought about it, but I know a lot of people are very badly affected,” Trump said at the event.

If HCQ worked it would be a godsend. A simple solution would be great. Turns out that solution is not going to be HCQ. It is not a cure as Raoult lied. Raoult's data is likely faked. He broke the law by using children in his experiments.

BTW, who is that dummy in the video. Is she one of the dummies that promoted HCQ? There were a bunch of lunatics on the show giving out medical advise that was dead wrong.

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stereologist

I watched the end of the video bee posted and that knucklehead is a complete knucklehead suggesting big pharmaceuticals make money off of vaccines. What an idiot. It's a poor  money maker. That's why the government gets involved in funding vaccines. Now we have a non-profit group funding vaccines as well. This same knucklehead earlier on says don't trust CNN because it reported on the VA study, the smaller one. Never did get a name. I wanted to look up the history of this person's reporting on FOX news to see if they were honest about their statements at the start of the video.

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hacktorp

HCQ conspiracy deepens...

Malaria drug and zinc, the missing link

By
Joseph Berry May 26, 2020

Quote

MYSTERY surrounds why an anti-malaria drug is not being tested as a Covid-19 treatment in combination with zinc, which doctors say is crucial for efficacy.

 

As we reported recently, President Trump revealed he was taking hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) alongside zinc after reports that many doctors are doing the same to help ward off Covid-19.

Criticism of the President rose sharply after a non-randomised study published in the Lancet said that HCQ provided no benefit to hospitalised Covid-19 patients while being linked to increased deaths. 

What the mainstream media did not point out is that the Lancet study failed to test HCQ with zinc. Other experts have found zinc to be vital for efficacy in this context.

Zinc, available as an over-the-counter supplement, has long been seen as an immune-system booster that helps develop immune cells, or antibodies, and can strengthen the body’s response to a virus.

American infectious disease specialist Joseph Rahimian explained that, in relation to Covid-19, zinc ‘does the heavy lifting and is the primary substance attacking the pathogen’. HCQ is said to work as a delivery systemfor zinc in fighting coronavirus.

Ironically, the Lancet study came out at the same time as it was reported that India’s premier health body had expanded use of HCQ as a preventive for key workers following three studies showing positive results. 

Conflicting reports and political axe-grinding have thickened the fog of war on this, but we know a number of things:

https://conservativewoman.co.uk/malaria-drug-and-zinc-the-missing-link/

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stereologist

There is nothing as superficial as moving the goalposts. That is what cranks do. They pretend that something important has been missed when that is nothing but an effort to misrepresent and lie.

Let's examine this junk article from some right wing wacko political outfit with no medical training. Let's see where they are trying to mislead people.

https://conservativewoman.co.uk/malaria-drug-and-zinc-the-missing-link/

Quote

What the mainstream media did not point out is that the Lancet study failed to test HCQ with zinc.

That's just a moronic comment. They did not fail at all. They ran what is known as a retropective study and reported the results.

Here is what this study actually did:

Quote

The Lancet study involved 96,000 coronavirus patients, nearly 15,000 of whom were given hydroxychloroquine - or a related form chloroquine - either alone or with an antibiotic.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52779309

That's a lot of people, the largest study to date concerning COVID-19 and HCQ.

When we go back to this poorly written misleading trash article we see that there are no studies supporting the inclusion of zinc, but we do see the sort of blather written on supplement packages.

Quote

Zinc, available as an over-the-counter supplement, has long been seen as an immune-system booster that helps develop immune cells, or antibodies, and can strengthen the body’s response to a virus.

American infectious disease specialist Joseph Rahimian explained that, in relation to Covid-19, zinc ‘does the heavy lifting and is the primary substance attacking the pathogen’. HCQ is said to work as a delivery systemfor zinc in fighting coronavirus.

So what do they have to say? They say India is using HCQ, but no mention of zinc. That doesn't support their fairy tale.

 

They go on to identify a study doing a cocktail treatment including zinc. What the article did not mention is that this study was the same format as the study with 96,000 patients. It was a non-randomized retrospective study. There were 930 or so subjects evaluated. That's 1% of the larger study.

Some information from their report.

Quote

the addition of zinc sulfate to hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin was not associated with a decrease in length of hospital stay, duration of mechanical ventilation, maximum oxygen flow rate, average oxygen flow rate, average fraction of inspired oxygen, or maximum fraction of inspired oxygen during hospitalization

Quote

after excluding all non-critically ill patients admitted to the intensive care unit, zinc sulfate no longer was found to be associated with a decrease in mortality

This is very important.

Quote

To our knowledge, we provide the first in vivo evidence on the efficacy of zinc in COVID-19 patients. After adjusting for the timing of zinc sulfate treatment, the associations between zinc and the need for ICU and invasive ventilation were no longer significant but we did still observe a trend. This observation may be because patients with COVID-19 were initially sent to the ICU quicker, but as time went on and resources became more limited, clinicians began treating COVID-19 patients on general medicine floors for longer periods of time before escalating to the ICU. Future studies are needed to confirm or refute the hypothesis that the addition of zinc sulfate to a zinc ionophore such as hydroxychloroquine may reduce the need for ICU care in patients with COVID-19.

 

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stereologist

Turns out HCQ has been used to try and treat other viral diseases. It failed in all other attempts. We have already posted the failures of HCQ with MERS and SARS.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(11)70065-2/fulltext

Quote

Although generally well tolerated by a healthy community population, chloroquine does not prevent infection with influenza. Alternative drugs are needed for large-scale prevention of influenza.

https://journals.plos.org/plosntds/article?id=10.1371/journal.pntd.0000785

Quote

CQ does not reduce the durations of viraemia and NS1 antigenaemia in dengue patients. Further trials, with appropriate endpoints, would be required to determine if CQ treatment has any clinical benefit in dengue.

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/vbz.2008.0049

Quote

In conclusion, our results suggest that there is currently no justification for the use of chloroquine to treat acute chikungunya infections.

 

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and then
On 5/26/2020 at 1:42 AM, toast said:

Thats the very simple point here, no matter what a former real estate agent with a defective education is telling you.

Are you unaware of the acceptance of this drug as a therapeutic or is it that you simply deny what hundreds of physicians are reporting about their use of it in treating Covid-19?

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/04/06/here-are-five-doctors-whose-patients-have-seen-recovery-with-hydroxy-chloroquine-n2566409

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/coronavirus/half-coronavirus-doctors-have-used-hydroxychloroquine-survey -146162

https://nypost.com/2020/04/02/hydroxychloroquine-most-effective-coronavirus-treatment-poll/

https://www.sbcmag.info/news/2020/apr/doctors-recommend-early-stage-treatment-combo-3-drugs

If you feel comfortable discounting the opinion of so many physicians and asserting that they are either mistaken or are lying then I'd say the problem might be your perceptions rather than the efficacy of the drug.

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stereologist
1 minute ago, and then said:

Are you unaware of the acceptance of this drug as a therapeutic or is it that you simply deny what hundreds of physicians are reporting about their use of it in treating Covid-19?

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/04/06/here-are-five-doctors-whose-patients-have-seen-recovery-with-hydroxy-chloroquine-n2566409

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/coronavirus/half-coronavirus-doctors-have-used-hydroxychloroquine-survey -146162

https://nypost.com/2020/04/02/hydroxychloroquine-most-effective-coronavirus-treatment-poll/

https://www.sbcmag.info/news/2020/apr/doctors-recommend-early-stage-treatment-combo-3-drugs

If you feel comfortable discounting the opinion of so many physicians and asserting that they are either mistaken or are lying then I'd say the problem might be your perceptions rather than the efficacy of the drug.

It does not appear to work.

Posting some comments from the likes of town hall or the national interest is just political claptrap and has no bearing on the efficacy of the drug.

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stereologist

Dredging up all OLD material is rather meaningless, but it is what those do that have a political agenda and not a medical agenda.

The political agenda is shore up the US president who makes off the cuff comments of little value be it HCQ, CQ, or insulin.

The medial agenda is to save lives and HCQ is once again not meeting the requirements.

 

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stereologist

Let's find out more about the political agenda.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/conservative-radio-coronavirus-limbaugh-fox-trump-094500988.html

Quote

Days later, Trump was a guest on New Jersey conservative host Bill Spadea’s radio show, where he promoted ending social distancing and lockdown measures. Spadea declared Americans will not wear masks for the rest of their lives, something no one is advocating. Trump agreed and downplayed the threat of the virus.

Have we seen the same message from politically handicapped?

Quote

“The average age of death [is] 80 from coronavirus, which is higher than the median life expectancy in the U.S. ― it’s killing people who’ve exceeded their life expectancy on average, and this is what we shut down the economy for?” John Kobylt, co-host of a popular drive-time show in Los Angeles, said on the air in late April.

It's killing old people. Who cares is part of the political agenda.

Quote

Beck regularly rails against social distancing measures and has defended armed lockdown protests. “Even if we all get sick, I’d rather die than kill the country,” he said in late March. “Because it’s not the economy that’s dying, it’s the country.”  

There we go. Kill people is the message.

Quote

Conservative radio host Mark Levin inaccurately likened the coronavirus to the flu in late April and listed how many people die each year from things like accidental poisoning and diabetes. (The comparison is nonsensical, since poisonings and diabetes cannot infect others or exponentially increase like a virus.)

Quote

Fox News host and informal Trump adviser Sean Hannity has meanwhile dismissed the severity of the virus, lashed out at journalists and fawningly praised the administration’s disastrous response to the pandemic. “It’s like [Trump’s opponents] are hoping Americans die and get sick and that we all lose a fortune in the stock market,” Hannity has told listeners.

That's the old greed message. Kill people for money.

And we are definitely seeing the following:

Quote

A disturbingly high percentage of Republican voters believe in anti-vaccine conspiracies, unproven coronavirus treatments and misleading pro-Trump narratives, according to a recent Yahoo News and YouGov poll ― beliefs that closely align with the messaging coming from conservative radio and other right-wing media.

 

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hacktorp

Wow.  Even the New York Times (one of our OP's favorite info sources) has been forced to acknowledge that the 'huge' study finding HCQ "increases death" is being roundly criticized by scientists for using flawed, unsound methods:

Scientists Question Validity of Major Hydroxychloroquine Study

By Roni Caryn Rabin Published May 29, 2020

Quote

More than 100 scientists and clinicians have questioned the authenticity of a massive hospital database that was the basis for an influential study published last week that concluded that treating people who have Covid-19 with chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine did not help and might have increased the risk of abnormal heart rhythms and death.

 

The scientists’ challenges to The Lancet paper come at a time of increasing debate about the risks of the rush to publish new medical findings about Covid-19. The paper, published May 22, included data on tens of thousands of patients hospitalized through April 14, meaning that the authors analyzed the trove of data, wrote the paper and went through the journal’s peer review of its findings in just over five weeks, much faster than usual.

The experts who wrote The Lancet also criticized the study’s methodology and the authors’ refusal to identify any of the hospitals that contributed patient data, or to name the countries where they were located. The company that owns the database is Surgisphere, based in Chicago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/health/coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine.html

So, now we have actual scientists pointing out instances of "junk science" being used to politicize and attack HCQ.  It won't be long now before these impostors running big pharma are instead running for their lives.

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hacktorp

Uh, oh...more bad news for the anti-HCQ loon-squad:

Yale Epidemiologist: Hydroxychloroquine Should Be 'Widely Available And Promoted Immediately' As Standard Treatment

Quote

In a Wedensday manuscript detailing how high-risk COVID-19 patients should be treated, Risch notes that the combination of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) and the antibiotic azithromycin (AZ) "has been widely misrepresented in both clinical reportsand public media," and that "Five studies, including two controlled clinical trials, have demonstrated significant major outpatient treatment efficacy."

Hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin has been used as standard-of-care in more than 300,000 older adults with multi comorbidities, with estimated proportion diagnosed with cardiac arrhythmias attributable to the medications 47/100,000 users, of which estimated mortality is <20%,9/100,000users, compared to the 10,000 Americans now dying each week. These medications need to be widely available and promoted immediately for physicians to prescribe. - Dr. Harvey Risch

 

Risch recommends the combination of HCQ+AZ "preferably with zinc" as a "standard outpatient treatment, at least until we find or add something better, whether that could be remdesivir or something else."

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/yale-epidemiologist-hydroxychloroquine-should-be-widely-available-and-promoted-immediately

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stereologist
4 hours ago, hacktorp said:

Wow.  Even the New York Times (one of our OP's favorite info sources) has been forced to acknowledge that the 'huge' study finding HCQ "increases death" is being roundly criticized by scientists for using flawed, unsound methods:

Scientists Question Validity of Major Hydroxychloroquine Study

By Roni Caryn Rabin Published May 29, 2020

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/health/coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine.html

So, now we have actual scientists pointing out instances of "junk science" being used to politicize and attack HCQ.  It won't be long now before these impostors running big pharma are instead running for their lives.

The issue is the study.

But there are zero studies that show HCQ works.

This study and others all show that the use of HCQ is of no use in dealing with HCQ.

Quote

President Trump has promoted the promise of hydroxychloroquine, despite the absence of gold-standard evidence from randomized clinical trials to prove its effectiveness

The same article shows it is not effective.

 

So here is the issue:

Quote

The experts who wrote The Lancet also criticized the study’s methodology and the authors’ refusal to identify any of the hospitals that contributed patient data, or to name the countries where they were located.

Unlike the right wing wackos that promote killing people: Beck, Limbaugh, the village idiot, Root, Levin, etc. here we have a retrospetie study and people want to see more of the data.

Fair question.

Does this invalidate the study? NO

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hacktorp
4 minutes ago, stereologist said:

But there are zero studies that show HCQ works.

Do you mean other than the...

"Five studies, including two controlled clinical trials, have demonstrated significant major outpatient treatment efficacy."

...referenced by the Yale epidemiologist, Dr. Harvey Risch?

Seems a bit too convenient to simply ignore that.  Although I understand why you'd want to.

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stereologist

It is very odd that the claims of Risch supporting HCQ comes in only trash and filth sources such as the disgraced zero hedge and some right wing wacko publications.

Finally found the article by Risch. Let's take a look at the primary source.

https://academic.oup.com/aje/advance-article/doi/10.1093/aje/kwaa093/5847586

Risch does not claim it works. He claims there is nothing to do by give it a whirl. He agrees with others that the evidence is not there.

And this is about out-patient care. It has nothing to do with prophylactic use as the village idiot used it.

 

 

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stereologist
3 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Do you mean other than the...

"Five studies, including two controlled clinical trials, have demonstrated significant major outpatient treatment efficacy."

...referenced by the Yale epidemiologist, Dr. Harvey Risch?

Seems a bit too convenient to simply ignore that.  Although I understand why you'd want to.

Zero hedge lied about its use.

These were small studies. One of those studies is the Raoult study where he faked data. Another is the Zelenko case where he never showed that the people even had COVID-19.

The data is against HCQ. It has been tried for a number of diseases and failed in all viral diseases.

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stereologist

This is where this Risch advice comes from:

Quote

In the context of the Covid-19 pandemic, we are presently averaging about 10,000 deaths per week in the US, under moderately strong isolation policies that have put more than 36million people out of work. Results of currently ongoing or planned randomized trials for use of a number of outpatient medications are many weeks or months off, and there are no guarantees that the results for these agents, even if statistically significant, will show sufficient magnitudes of effectiveness to be useful clinically. We are rapidly reaching a breaking point in the ability to maintain the status quo;states have begun the process of lifting their restrictions, and we thus need to evaluate what evidence we do have for promising outpatient treatments.

He is making a guess based on whatever he can find. There are tens of thousands dying and he is going to shoot from the hip instead of  taking aim.

That doesn't mean HCQ is effective. He looked at some reports and took them at face value. But we've seen that Raoult who has a habit of faking data is one of the sources. Raoult was fired for experimenting on children and the criminal is headed to China to avoid prosecution for his crimes. Zelenko made up stories about how well his "cure" worked.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/01/us/coronavirus-doctor-zelenko-malaria-drug.html

Quote

A federal prosecutor has opened a preliminary inquiry into whether an obscure New York doctor who won White House attention by claiming he could treat the coronavirus broke the law by falsely claiming that a hospital study of drugs he had promoted had won federal approval.

The doctor, Vladimir Zelenko, wrongly claimed that the Food and Drug Administration had backed a study of a drug cocktail that he asserts is effective in treating Covid-19, the disease caused by the virus.

Quote

But his claims that he could cure the disease by treating it aggressively in the early stages, which he played up in a YouTube video that he addressed to Mr. Trump, caught the attention of the president’s inner circle.

 

He makes up this story claiming a cure. He has no evidence but it sure tricked the village idiot.

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hacktorp
Posted (edited)

Now that panic over the coronavirus hoax is sputtering, even Leftist media is beginning to admit the entire thing has been overblown:

Antibody Tests Point To Lower Death Rate For The Coronavirus Than First Thought

Quote

Mounting evidence suggests the coronavirus is more common and less deadly than it first appeared.

The evidence comes from tests that detect antibodies to the coronavirus in a person's blood rather than the virus itself.

The tests are finding large numbers of people in the U.S. who were infected but never became seriously ill. And when these mild infections are included in coronavirus statistics, the virus appears less dangerous.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/28/863944333/antibody-tests-point-to-lower-death-rate-for-the-coronavirus-than-first-thought?utm_campaign=npr&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social

Expect this trend to continue...until they finally admit the whole thing was largely faked.

Edited by hacktorp
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Peter B
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, hacktorp said:

Now that panic over the coronavirus hoax is sputtering, even Leftist media is beginning to admit the entire thing has been overblown:

Antibody Tests Point To Lower Death Rate For The Coronavirus Than First Thought

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/28/863944333/antibody-tests-point-to-lower-death-rate-for-the-coronavirus-than-first-thought?utm_campaign=npr&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social

Expect this trend to continue...until they finally admit the whole thing was largely faked.

Quoting from the article: "Indiana's infection fatality rate turned out to be about 0.58%, or roughly one death for every 172 people who got infected.

"And the results in Indiana are similar to those suggested by antibody studies in several other areas. In New York, for example, an antibody study indicated the state has an infection fatality rate around 0.5%."

So let's assume an infection fatality rate of 0.5%. If the whole US population is infected that means something like 1.5 million deaths. You call that 'largely faked'?

As for the faking, is El Salavdor's right wing government faking the need for an extension to their lockdown for the benefit of left-wing media? Is Russia faking the large number of deaths there for the benefit of left-wing media? Is Brazil? Is India? Is Sweden?

Are left-wing governments such as those in Vietnam or New Zealand faking their success in keeping infection numbers low?

Or is it, perhaps, that the effect of the virus is nothing to do with politics and everything to do with how individual governments have managed the crisis regardless of their politics?

Edited by Peter B
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stereologist

What we clearly see is the same sort of mindless rhetoric as we see from those promoting stupidity using far right wing radical commentary such as Rush Limbaugh.

A death rate of 0.5% is still 5 times the death rate from the seasonal flu. Unlike the flu there is no vaccine.

 

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hacktorp
Posted (edited)

More scientists weigh-in on the conspiracy which created the 'novel' coronavirus used in recent pandemic scare:

Scientists say COVID-19 may have been cooked up in lab

Exclusive, Sharri Markson, The Daily Telegraph
June 1, 2020 12:58pm

Quote

A growing number of scientists say it is possible COVID-19 was created in a laboratory.

Leading immunologists and geneticists have told The Daily Telegraph there are two unusual aspects of COVID-19 that raise the possibility it was man-made rather than a naturally-occurring virus.

The first is that the virus binds to human ACE2 receptor cells more strongly than it does to any other animal, including bats.

The second is that it has a “furin cleavage site” that its closest genetic bat-coronavirus relative, RaTG-13, does not have.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/coronavirus/scientists-say-covid19-cooked-up-in-lab/news-story/242c5f9fd14f162dea67f166bcabd985

Meanwhile, proponents of the debunked "natural evolution" narrative try to swallow the lumps in their throats as they realize just how idiotic they now appear.

Edited by hacktorp
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