Corona virus conspiracies

[stereologist]

5 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

Lower quality than what?  The Lancet report you touted that was smaller, wasn't peer-reviewed, and was humiliatingly retracted with an apology?

Face it, the Henry Ford Health System study is the highest-quality study available to-date.

Now you're sounding like a science-denying, backward-thinking, lunatic-Luddite.

Oops...here's the president of Brazil showing the world how he is treating his viral infection with HCQ:

 

Eta:  I actually did include a link to the Ford study (post #2186).  You must have failed to scroll down properly

There is only one randomized placebo controlled HCQ study. It showed HCQ was not effective.

The trial was a lower quality trial of the same format as the VA study which showed HCQ increased the likelihood of death.

Please read about studies before posting such laughable mistakes.

[ian hacktorp]

14 minutes ago, stereologist said:

There is only one randomized placebo controlled HCQ study. It showed HCQ was not effective.

The trial was a lower quality trial of the same format as the VA study which showed HCQ increased the likelihood of death.

Please read about studies before posting such laughable mistakes.

The so-called VA study wasn't peer-reviewed and has been widely debunked by many, including the VA itself, as junk.  That's another big fail for you.

What else you got?

Edited July 9, 2020 by hacktorp

[stereologist]

29 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

The so-called VA study wasn't peer-reviewed and has been widely debunked by many, including the VA itself, as junk.  That's another big fail for you.

What else you got?

These are both studies of the same quality - they are both lesser quality studies called retrospective studies.

The VA study was not debunked. That's your BS and not reality. Once again you reveal your lack of understanding of basic issues.

[ian hacktorp]

6 minutes ago, stereologist said:

These are both studies of the same quality - they are both lesser quality studies called retrospective studies.

The VA study was not debunked. That's your BS and not reality. Once again you reveal your lack of understanding of basic issues.

Again, the Ford study was peer-reviewed before release and the VA one was not.  The two are not comparable, although you would like to think they are.

Further, the VA "study" was indeed debunked by none other than VA Secretary Robert Wilkie who said:

Quote

“Recently, a records review was posted on a public website at the request of the New England Journal of Medicine, out of one of our medical centers,” the letter states. “The review documented some initial findings on the use of hydroxychloroquine for treating COVID-19 that gained a lot of media attention. This led to misinformation about what did and did not happen at VA, and what the findings indicated.”

We will continue to see more and more new reports and studies come in showing the powerful efficacy of HCQ for treating coronavirus infections.

Unfortunately for you, a couple of old, debunked, discredited, and discarded attempts to show otherwise are all you'll ever have.

[stereologist]

Here is what the co-author of the study has to say.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/based-on-bad-science-trump-adviser-criticizes-fda-after-new-study-backs-hydroxychloroquine

Quote

Dr. Marcus Zervos, division head of infectious disease at the Henry Ford Health System and co-author of the study, cautioned that the results should be taken with a grain of salt. The drug should only be administered in a hospital, and more clinical evidence is needed to back up the team’s findings, he said.

“Currently, the drug should be used only in hospitalized patients with appropriate monitoring and as part of study protocols, in accordance with all relevant federal regulations,” Zervos said.

The study was not double blinded or placebo controlled.  It is very possible that the doctors divided up the patients in such a manner that the ones more likely to die were not given HCQ. It is very possible that those cut off from the study would have changed the results of the outcome.

All of the complaints hacktorp made about the VA study also apply to this study. All of the complaints.

These are the same types of studies. There is no experimental model or hypothesis going into the treatment. Afterward, a retrospective of the outcomes is performed to look for a pattern. Any pattern has to be properly tested. I stated that with the VA case. The same has to be done here. A proper test needs to be performed and some of those are being done.

The VA case study showed increased death, and this study reduced death. A large scale blinded, placebo  controlled study is needed.

[stereologist]

Just now, hacktorp said:

Again, the Ford study was peer-reviewed before release and the VA one was not.  The two are not comparable, although you would like to think they are.

Further, the VA "study" was indeed debunked by none other than VA Secretary Robert Wilkie who said:

We will continue to see more and more new reports and studies come in showing the powerful efficacy of HCQ for treating coronavirus infections.

Unfortunately for you, a couple of old, debunked, discredited, and discarded attempts to show otherwise are all you'll ever have.

The peer review issue has nothing at all to do with the quality of the study. It was a retrospective study just like the VA study.

Wilkie did not debunk the study. Sorry you are embarrassing yourself with falsehoods.

So far the outlook for HCQ is poor.

[stereologist]

Here is  metastudy of HCQ and CQ as antivirals

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1198743X20302937

Quote

Using HCQ or CQ for HIV/HCV infections is now clinically irrelevant as other effective antivirals are available for viral load suppression (HIV) and cure (HCV). There is no benefit of CQ in dengue, and the same conclusion is likely for chikungunya. More evidence is needed to confirm whether either HCQ or CQ is beneficial in COVID-19 infection.

The evidence is coming. It isn't here yet.

Even if HCQ is shown to have some effective treatment for the desperately ill, exactly those people that the Trumpians claimed were the problem with the VA study, it is not a cure. It is not a game changer. We will need drugs that are far superior to this drug which at best will be an intermediate on the path to a true treatment.

[ian hacktorp]

Here's an article, from today, explaining what the coronavirus conspiracy to suppress HCQ is all about.  If only it could explain why some folks, like our OP, can be so gullible as to buy into the false, anti-HCQ propaganda:

Hydroxychloroquine and fake news

Fake news is keeping us away from the treatment to end the coronavirus crisis

by Jeremy Gordon July 8, 2020

 

Quote

The anti-hydroxychloroquine media has been full of the supposed dangers of hydroxychloroquine and its failure as a treatment for the virus. Does hydroxychloroquine work or does it not, is it safe or dangerous, and should we be using it as a treatment for the virus? Here we examine the evidence for and against it.

A New York doctor Vladimir Zelenko looked at treatments being used in China and Korea and gave it to 405 patients over 60 or with high-risk problems such as diabetes, asthma, obesity, hypertension or shortness of breath. In this high risk group he claimed to have cut hospital admission and mortality rates compared to what could be expected without treatment by 80 to 90%

Dr Zelenko sent a letter to President Trump urging him to issue an executive order to roll out the treatment which the FDA was blocking. Trump announced that hydroxychloroquine looked like it could be a “game-changer”, and thus the politicization of hydroxychloroquine began.

Professor Didier Raoult of Marseilles used a similar protocol to Dr. Zelenko without the zinc. His study with a small group using hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin showed a fifty-fold benefit. He then went on to get similar results with a much larger group of 1,061 patients. Contrary to the warnings the media had been running that hydroxychloroquine would cause heart problems, no cardiac toxicity was observed and he achieved a mortality rate of only 0.5%.

The media quickly found critics who claimed that the only valid proof any treatment worked was a “gold-standard” double-blind clinical trial and dismissed Dr. Zelenko’s and Raoult’s results.

A study from the New York University Grossman school of Medicine published in May found patients given hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin at an early stage had a lower need for hospitalization than those who were not. The addition of zinc improved the results even more. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1.full.pdf

https://theduran.com/hydroxychloroquine-and-fake-news/

 

[ian hacktorp]

2 hours ago, stereologist said:

We will need drugs that are far superior to this drug which at best will be an intermediate on the path to a true treatment.

This will be the next line of scrimmage as the anti-HCQ crowd keeps backing toward their own goal.  It won't work.

HCQ will prove to not only help fight coronavirus and other infections, it will never need expensive, endless "novel" iterations, like those hideous vaccine concoctions would.

HCQ and zinc are relatively simple chemical compounds that your body can use to boost it's ability to fight off certain pathogens.  Vaccines, on the other hand, are a creepy and complex mixture of biological materials sourced from the germ and animal kingdoms.  A DNA "graveyard" cocktail that is often stabilized and preserved with heavy metal-derived additives.

With the truth actually being out there, most folks won't take too long to figure out which option is better.

Edited July 9, 2020 by hacktorp

[ian hacktorp]

I'm pretty sure Bill Gates' name has come up already here on the coronavirus conspiracy thread...as well it should.  His name is popping up a lot these days, it seems.

In fact. it sounds like he'd be equally as comfortable here, as on the Epstein thread.  Hmmmm.  How does Fauci fit in?

Lol...

Edited July 9, 2020 by hacktorp

[stereologist]

8 hours ago, hacktorp said:

Here's an article, from today, explaining what the coronavirus conspiracy to suppress HCQ is all about.  If only it could explain why some folks, like our OP, can be so gullible as to buy into the false, anti-HCQ propaganda:

Hydroxychloroquine and fake news

Fake news is keeping us away from the treatment to end the coronavirus crisis

by Jeremy Gordon July 8, 2020

 

https://theduran.com/hydroxychloroquine-and-fake-news/

 

More dumb opinion posts are like that everywhere on the internet. It is not evidence but more Lyschenko style communist thinking my dear commie comrade.

[stereologist]

7 hours ago, hacktorp said:

This will be the next line of scrimmage as the anti-HCQ crowd keeps backing toward their own goal.  It won't work.

HCQ will prove to not only help fight coronavirus and other infections, it will never need expensive, endless "novel" iterations, like those hideous vaccine concoctions would.

HCQ and zinc are relatively simple chemical compounds that your body can use to boost it's ability to fight off certain pathogens.  Vaccines, on the other hand, are a creepy and complex mixture of biological materials sourced from the germ and animal kingdoms.  A DNA "graveyard" cocktail that is often stabilized and preserved with heavy metal-derived additives.

With the truth actually being out there, most folks won't take too long to figure out which option is better.

There is no anti-HCQ crowd. There are the dopes pushing an unproven drug.

As I already posted, HCQ has been a failure in all other viral tests from dengue to SARS to MERS to HIV to ... It has failed.

HCQ has failed. Zinc is a material that once at normal at levels does not increase in benefit by raising it. If deficient then it should be used.

Vaccines are cheap cost effective methods to save lives. Only the bottom feeding scum anti-vaxxers work against vaccines and misrepresent them.

Thanks for once against revealing how communists think

[stereologist]

Looks like this conspiracy is still going strong:

126. The right-wing wants to kill off thousands of people by luring people into thinking HCQ will cure them.

 

[+Desertrat56]

My friend just sent me a video with a Dr. Richard Bartlett from Midland, TX being interviewed and claiming he has CURED covid by using a nebulized steroid called Budesonide.  He is a liar.  He has not cured anything, he has helped his patients breathe so that their bodies can recover and create the antibodies that kill the virus.

I think the biggest problem is that people don't understand how a virus works and that once you get it there is no medicine that will kill it, no matter what the virus is.  Your body has to create antibodies to fight it and those who get really ill from a virus have a weakened immune system that is not creating the antibodies as fast as the virus is reproducing in the body.  There are therapies that help, but it is up to the body to kill the virus. 

I am not going to link the video, it is really long but you can look the doctor up if you are interested in seeing it on Youtube.

[jaylemurph]

2 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

My friend just sent me a video with a Dr. Richard Bartlett from Midland, TX being interviewed and claiming he has CURED covid by using a nebulized steroid called Budesonide.  He is a liar.  He has not cured anything, he has helped his patients breathe so that their bodies can recover and create the antibodies that kill the virus.

I think the biggest problem is that people don't understand how a virus works and that once you get it there is no medicine that will kill it, no matter what the virus is.  Your body has to create antibodies to fight it and those who get really ill from a virus have a weakened immune system that is not creating the antibodies as fast as the virus is reproducing in the body.  There are therapies that help, but it is up to the body to kill the virus. 

I am not going to link the video, it is really long but you can look the doctor up if you are interested in seeing it on Youtube.

Right there with ya.

--Jaylemurph

[ExpandMyMind]

On 7/9/2020 at 12:00 PM, stereologist said:

More dumb opinion posts are like that everywhere on the internet. It is not evidence but more Lyschenko style communist thinking my dear commie comrade.

I wouldn't worry about Hack. I'm about 70% confident he's working for a Russian troll farm.

[+Desertrat56]

34 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I wouldn't worry about Hack. I'm about 70% confident he's working for a Russian troll farm.

Is this forum so important for that?

[ExpandMyMind]

22 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Is this forum so important for that?

It had over 60,000 organic visitors per month at the height of the election and it's main demographic are gullible, voting Americans who will believe almost anything without any evidence.

Yes, I'd say it was a pretty much the ideal place for a Russian troll to target.

Edited July 12, 2020 by ExpandMyMind

[bee]

3 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I wouldn't worry about Hack. I'm about 70% confident he's working for a Russian troll farm.

 

 

 

[GlitterRose]

4 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I wouldn't worry about Hack. I'm about 70% confident he's working for a Russian troll farm.

You should check your meter.

Even the Papameter has it higher than that. Lol.

[GlitterRose]

There's only one reason people are spreading all this nonsense and it's quite simply that they want more people to die. 

[Kismit]

1 hour ago, GlitterRose said:

There's only one reason people are spreading all this nonsense and it's quite simply that they want more people to die. 

No GlitterRose there is another reason,  it is ego, there are people in the world who need to be right and stand out from the crowd, who view the crowd as evil.

A recent argument made by one of these people was that math is math. Which is true. Yet evidence that proves social distancing, testing and hand washing work, which is a type of math is apparently wrong. Evidence that proves the disease exists, or as in Australia is not being used to control a whole nation, just one state out of seven. This universally available Evidence (just like math) doesn't count.

It's about ego and feeling like you are better than others because you have secret knowledge and know more than everyone else, and ego that makes you feel your importance is worth more than say someone's Nanna or Nannas family.

The fact that the dissenting opinions are also higher in places where the disease has hit worse is an equation that does not mdtter to them either. Universally available Evidence which when viewed just as facts without conspiracy or mainstream filters show us all the exact same reality.

Nobody gains from a shutdown not even the Government. 

[GlitterRose]

1 minute ago, Kismit said:

No GlitterRose there is another reason,  it is ego, there are people in the world who need to be right and stand out from the crowd, who view the crowd as evil.

A recent argument made by one of these people was that math is math. Which is true. Yet evidence that proves social distancing, testing and hand washing work, which is a type of math is apparently wrong. Evidence that proves the disease exists, or as in Australia is not being used to control a whole nation, just one state out of seven. This universally available Evidence (just like math) doesn't count.

It's about ego and feeling like you are better than others because you have secret knowledge and know more than everyone else, and ego that makes you feel your importance is worth more than say someone's Nanna or Nannas family.

The fact that the dissenting opinions are also higher in places where the disease has hit worse is an equation that does not mdtter to them either. Universally available Evidence which when viewed just as facts without conspiracy or mainstream filters show us all the exact same reality.

Nobody gains from a shutdown not even the Government. 

It's like it's just a big game to them. I've seen people coming on pretty much just to troll on this topic. 

[ian hacktorp]

2 hours ago, Kismit said:

Yet evidence that proves social distancing, testing and hand washing work, which is a type of math is apparently wrong.

I'm sure there are some esoteric "maths" that can explain how this happened:

More Media-Hyped Hysteria? Fearmongering NBC Doctor Who 'Battled COVID' Admits Never Had Virus

Quote

Which is why we weren't the least bit surprised to read that NBC News spent weeks documenting the coronavirus "journey" of one of its contributors with Covid-19 - despite the fact that he never tested positive for the virus!

 

The contributor, Dr. Joseph Fair, believed he had the virus, according to the Daily Wire, and subsequently appeared on the air on NBC several times to discuss his struggle with the illness in May and June.

“I had a mask on, I had gloves on, I did my normal wipes routine … but obviously, you can still get it through your eyes. And, of course, I wasn’t wearing goggles on the flight,” Fair said in the appearance on the “TODAY” show from the hospital.

Host Hoda Kotb said during the segment about the tests:

“Every time it came back negative, but clearly you have it.”

A negative test indicates the patient does not have the virus.

But last week, Fair admitted that he never tested positive for the virus and also tested negative when he was administered and antibody test. 

He Tweeted out last week: “My undiagnosed/suspected COVID illness from nearly 2 months ago remains an undiagnosed mystery as a recent antibody test was negative. I had myriad COVID symptoms, was hospitalized in a COVID ward & treated for COVID-related co-morbidities, despite testing negative by nasal swab.”

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/more-media-hyped-hysteria-fearmongering-nbc-doctor-who-battled-covid-admits-never-had-virus

Lol!

[GlitterRose]

Ooh...there's a shocker...

Over time, Zero Hedge expanded into non-financial analysis,^[c] such as conspiracy theories and fringe rhetoric^[25] that has been associated with the US radical right^[14][26] and a pro-Russian bias.

Okay, I have to admit, it wasn't much of a shocker.