The Green New Corona Deal

[tmcom]

C -19 is forcing countries to immediately close down most or all air travel, and restaurants, and reduce car usage.Which is what the nutters want for the year 2050.
 

Or we are getting a sneak peak at just how f....up society will be if this was implemented.

So far if we want a permanent worldwide recession, and kill the tourist industry it is great!

[qxcontinuum]

Not all the countries though, take as example UK and Holland, rather than shutting off their economy and focus on prevention they focus on contingency building hospitals and get ready for treatment.

[ChrLzs]

Well, it sure as hell brings out the ugly....

[+and-then]

9 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Well, it sure as hell brings out the ugly....

Unfortunately, I doubt we've seen even a tiny fraction of that yet...

[Imaginarynumber1]

Wait... so you WANT there to be tons of pollution?

[+and-then]

Say what?

[tmcom]

5 hours ago, qxcontinuum said:

Not all the countries though, take as example UK and Holland, rather than shutting off their economy and focus on prevention they focus on contingency building hospitals and get ready for treatment.

I thought that also, but the UK is closing stuff down, and the Queen has gone into hiding, (her husband is still going to everything).

3 hours ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Wait... so you WANT there to be tons of pollution?

Let me put it this way!

[Essan]

Coronavirus has saved 1,000s of lives in China due to decreasing pollution levels, claim experts

[Essan]

1 hour ago, tmcom said:

 

 

Time for Logan to run, before Carrousel 

[Imaginarynumber1]

22 hours ago, tmcom said:

I thought that also, but the UK is closing stuff down, and the Queen has gone into hiding, (her husband is still going to everything).

Let me put it this way!

So you want tons of pollution. 

[toast]

On 3/20/2020 at 3:54 AM, tmcom said:

C -19 is forcing countries to immediately close down most or all air travel, and restaurants, and reduce car usage.Which is what the nutters want for the year 2050. Or we are getting a sneak peak at just how f....up society will be if this was implemented. So far if we want a permanent worldwide recession, and kill the tourist industry it is great!

I like the kind of your hidden logic. Maybe it would be of benefit for humanity, by math, to lift all current bans and restrictions related to CORVID19. It would lead to a boosted spread = an exponential increase of deaths = medium and long term reduction of the global population = decreasing demand for fossil fuels = decreasing amount of CO2. Nice. Brilliant, somehow.

[tmcom]

46 minutes ago, toast said:

I like the kind of your hidden logic. Maybe it would be of benefit for humanity, by math, to lift all current bans and restrictions related to CORVID19. It would lead to a boosted spread = an exponential increase of deaths = medium and long term reduction of the global population = decreasing demand for fossil fuels = decreasing amount of CO2. Nice. Brilliant, somehow.

Agreed, l wanted this to be a comparison to SARS, but unfortunately the ratios are much worse, (SARS has 8000 infected, this one is over 100k), so stricter qualantines are needed, but it is still true we are seeing what the year 2050 GND will be like, if  global warming goes the distance.

Edited March 21, 2020 by tmcom

[tmcom]

Children are getting on board, and it shows what years of brainwashing can do.

 

[Tatetopa]

On 3/19/2020 at 7:54 PM, tmcom said:

C -19 is forcing countries to immediately close down most or all air travel, and restaurants, and reduce car usage.Which is what the nutters want for the year 2050.

What is this?

What "nutter" wants to shut down restaurants and travel?  What dark idea of the future is this?

Did someone say in 1900: "If we get rid of all horses and freight wagons in the next 30 years cities will starve" ?  Probably.

The buggy whip maker who could envision nothing else probably saw his doom in the elimination of  horse-drawn carriages.  Some saddle makers, wheelwrights, and wagon builders might have seen rich opportunities in millions of leather seat covers  and horseless carriages that still needed a framework to mount the engines.  And they would still need wheels.

We did not become cavemen in 1930 because automobiles replaced horses.

Cars,airplanes, and coal power plants are not the final crowing achievements of mankind, they are just steps along the way to something better. 

Some people create doom in the same future that others see as rich in opportunities.  Your choice.

[Golden Duck]

5 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

What is this?

What "nutter" wants to shut down restaurants and travel?  What dark idea of the future is this?

Did someone say in 1900: "If we get rid of all horses and freight wagons in the next 30 years cities will starve" ?  Probably.

The buggy whip maker who could envision nothing else probably saw his doom in the elimination of  horse-drawn carriages.  Some saddle makers, wheelwrights, and wagon builders might have seen rich opportunities in millions of leather seat covers  and horseless carriages that still needed a framework to mount the engines.  And they would still need wheels.

We did not become cavemen in 1930 because automobiles replaced horses.

Cars,airplanes, and coal power plants are not the final crowing achievements of mankind, they are just steps along the way to something better. 

Some people create doom in the same future that others see as rich in opportunities.  Your choice.

He says he dislikes fearmongering, while purporting people will die without air conditioning during heatwaves as we head for the next ice age 

[Tatetopa]

44 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

He says he dislikes fearmongering, while purporting people will die without air conditioning during heatwaves as we head for the next ice age 

The Luddites thought if textile mills used water power to run looms, hand weavers would be out of business and starve.  Some folks just don't like change, and to resist it they want to paint end-of-the-world scenarios. 

Maybe we could think along the lines of:  If we did want to replace cars with better means of transportation over the next 30 years,  how would we go about that logically and profitably.  If we did want to get rid of as many coal fired power plants as possible, what would it take to prevent negative repercussions?  Solving problems is what some people do for a living, I think we could handle it.

[Doug1029]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

Maybe we could think along the lines of:  If we did want to replace cars with better means of transportation over the next 30 years,  how would we go about that logically and profitably.  If we did want to get rid of as many coal fired power plants as possible, what would it take to prevent negative repercussions?  Solving problems is what some people do for a living, I think we could handle it.

There are now more blacksmiths in the US than there were in 1930.  Getting horses out of NYC didn't hurt the horse industry.

Doug

[tmcom]

8 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

What is this?

What "nutter" wants to shut down restaurants and travel?  What dark idea of the future is this?

Did someone say in 1900: "If we get rid of all horses and freight wagons in the next 30 years cities will starve" ?  Probably.

The buggy whip maker who could envision nothing else probably saw his doom in the elimination of  horse-drawn carriages.  Some saddle makers, wheelwrights, and wagon builders might have seen rich opportunities in millions of leather seat covers  and horseless carriages that still needed a framework to mount the engines.  And they would still need wheels.

We did not become cavemen in 1930 because automobiles replaced horses.

Cars,airplanes, and coal power plants are not the final crowing achievements of mankind, they are just steps along the way to something better. 

Some people create doom in the same future that others see as rich in opportunities.  Your choice.

The nutters that endorse the GND, (pretty much the EU and others) or the ones that want 100% carbon neutral by 2050, so air travel is gone, cars and gone, except electric and restaurants and theatres are gone, unless they don't use Coal or Gas. Or in other words what we are experiencing now, or seriously f....ed!

I don't have a clue what you are talking about with going from horses to cars, Coal to BS wind/solar is a lame comparison at best.

Alice Springs has 100% solar and battery backup, and a giant cloud came over and their power went out, or it does not work, and never will work!

F...wits praying to their golden wind turbine statue, hoping that it will work are idiots the laws of physics, probability and thinking ahead is what works.

There are no electric drone replacements for planes at this time, and if there where, it would put tremendous pressure on our grid, a grid that is getting diluted with w/s. So we end up with a fleet of electric planes all using the grid at night to charge, alone with cars, etc, when the wind is not blowing and solar is crap, and we have less coal plants, and battery backup has failed after a day or two.

Or a fleet of grounded planes, and constant power blackouts, and electric cars being abandoned along freeways and roads. This is why labor never got in, since the masses could see just how f...ing ridiculous it was.

We are getting  a taste of the Green New Deal, now, and when C-19 is over, pushing the climate change emergency, will be considerably harder to push,

I agree that is good news.

 

[Tatetopa]

3 hours ago, tmcom said:

the laws of physics, probability and thinking ahead is what works.

That is true and quite intelligent.

3 hours ago, tmcom said:

The nutters that endorse the GND, (pretty much the EU and others) or the ones that want 100% carbon neutral by 2050, so air travel is gone, cars and gone, except electric and restaurants and theatres are gone, unless they don't use Coal or Gas. Or in other words what we are experiencing now, or seriously f....ed!

That is not the nutters, that is you.   

The "nutters" want to set the goal of being carbon neutral by 2050.  Maybe we get close, maybe it takes until 2070, but there are things to try and progress to be made. Maybe we don't get there at all, but we try some things.  We keep the smart things and give up the dumb ones.  We keep the ones that make life better, that provide jobs and make money.  

You are the one that has decided that means the end of everything we know. 

You are not using physics, probability, or thinking ahead.  You seem to be throwing up your hands in utter desperation and paralyzing your self without using your own creativity.

 

[tmcom]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

That is true and quite intelligent.

That is not the nutters, that is you.   

The "nutters" want to set the goal of being carbon neutral by 2050.  Maybe we get close, maybe it takes until 2070, but there are things to try and progress to be made. Maybe we don't get there at all, but we try some things.  We keep the smart things and give up the dumb ones.  We keep the ones that make life better, that provide jobs and make money.  

You are the one that has decided that means the end of everything we know. 

You are not using physics, probability, or thinking ahead.  You seem to be throwing up your hands in utter desperation and paralyzing your self without using your own creativity.

No, l don't give up something with a 50 year proven track record, for wind/solar which does not have a proven track record, for a lame theory, that looks ridiculous at the moment since we are having record cold globally.

I agree with creativity to a point, but realism needs to come into play here, developing a all electric plane that replaces our largest ones, is decades away, or a good century away.

https://batterybro.com/blogs/18650-wholesale-battery-reviews/98659398-electric-jumbo-jets-how-many-batteries-do-you-need-to-get-airborne

Quote

• Fuel has 162 times more energy density than the batteries for the same capacity (in kg).

The Blackberry D-X1 battery doesn’t look very good for these results, but that’s expected considering that fuel’s energy density surpasses greatly the one available to be used from the batteries by the airplane.

It all comes down to how much power a battery has per fuel, and fuel leaves battery's in the dust, at present.

So a small drone that can seat up to 19 people by 2050 is about the best we can expect, minus antigravity, and free energy. Which means most commercial airlines are grounded, and the international tourist industry is gone, local will probably cope.

And we still have dumped electric cars, trucks and have power blackouts, (fission is decades away or never).

I am sure people could have wished and hoped that 30 years ago that solar would be 100% efficent by now, but around 20% is the best we have got, and it is junk after dusk.

[Tatetopa]

9 hours ago, tmcom said:

I agree with creativity to a point, but realism needs to come into play here, developing a all electric plane that replaces our largest ones, is decades away, or a good century away.

Tmcom, this is the all or nothing approach again. 

One does not need to replace our largest airplanes with electric power  soon or probably ever.  I have been working in aerospace for 35 years mostly on aircraft engine parts.  We have been replacing nickel steel components in the front cool zones of the engines with titanium, aluminum, and composites where appropriate.  Our concern has always  been weight and fuel efficiency.  Cost has driven that.  Engines are lighter, quieter, and generate more thrust than they did 30 years ago.  And they use less fuel.= less pollution.

Airframes are lighter too because of the use of composited and lighter weight materials.  An airplane can carry more payload per gallon of fuel than 30 years ago.

That is due to advances in design, largely computer aided; advances in materials, composites were not in use when I started as an engineer.; and advances in technology like 3D metal printing.  For example, fuel nozzles on new GE engines are 3D printed titanium.  That allows more complexity than can be achieved by fabrication, machining, or casting.  Complexity  leads to better fuel / air mixing to be more efficient and use less fuel per mile

That does not account for the other changes in technology that have taken place in society  For example I could sit with a team at my plant on a video conference with other teams in other plants.  We can share speech, drawings, and all participate in computer engineering simulations.  Thirty years ago we would have to fly 3-4 hours, rent cars, stay in hotels, and meet in a central place.  Our company moved in this direction because it so so much more efficient and so much cheaper..  Business travelers like I used to be make up a huge part of air travel passengers.  I used to make 6-8 coast to coast trips in the US yearly, and some years a trip to Japan, France, or Sweden to meet with designers and customers.  That time and money has been replaced by the Internet. 

One or two trips a year might be necessary, but that is a 75% reduction over the  years. And it doesn't even seem like a sacrifice.  In fact, cramped airplane seats, lousy food, and long travel hours are not  things I miss.

I know your big worry is about coal going away, but it will certainly diminish..  It will not be because we mandate solar or wind. It will be because of better technology and cost driven replacements.

[Emma_Acid]

On 3/20/2020 at 2:54 AM, tmcom said:

C -19 is forcing countries to immediately close down most or all air travel, and restaurants, and reduce car usage.Which is what the nutters want for the year 2050.
 

Or we are getting a sneak peak at just how f....up society will be if this was implemented.

So far if we want a permanent worldwide recession, and kill the tourist industry it is great!

Great strawman there pal

[+OverSword]

On 3/19/2020 at 8:12 PM, qxcontinuum said:

Not all the countries though, take as example UK and Holland, rather than shutting off their economy and focus on prevention they focus on contingency building hospitals and get ready for treatment.

What are you talking about?  Every country is doing that.  The whole point of the lock down is to give time to build infrastructure more capable of dealing with this situation.

[+OverSword]

On 3/21/2020 at 9:23 AM, tmcom said:

Children are getting on board, and it shows what years of brainwashing can do.

 

Brainwashing?  That must be a brand new thing

[Setton]

On 3/20/2020 at 2:54 AM, tmcom said:

C -19 is forcing countries to immediately close down most or all air travel, and restaurants, and reduce car usage.Which is what the nutters want for the year 2050.

Except nobody has said that's what they want. The nutters by and large are wearing those rather natty red hats.