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Eldorado

Egypt torturing children in jails?

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Eldorado

"Egyptian security forces have been accused of wide-ranging abuses against children, including enforced disappearances, arbitrary arrests and torture in jail, Human Rights Watch said in a report published on Monday.

"The report contains testimony from 20 children who were between 12 and 17-years-old when they were arrested. Fifteen of them said they were tortured in pre-trial detention, with seven saying officers used electricity — such as stun guns — to torture them.

""Children are describing being waterboarded and electrocuted on their tongues and genitals, and yet Egypt's security forces are facing no consequences," said Bill Van Esveld, HRW associate children's rights director."

Full article at DW Germany: Link

The Human Rights Watch report: Link

At the Times of Israel: Link

And at Middle East Eye: Link

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Piney

I'm not even a little bit surprised..........:hmm:

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Jon the frog

Children pay a high price in turbulent regions.. Egypt is now a bigger mess after the revolution of 2011, Afghan kids getting dressed with bombs, Palestinian kids losing their eyes from sniping with airguns so they cannot take arm later, Congolese kids used in child labor fodder for cobalt to built smart phones, kids forced in sexual exploitation or other getting themselves locked between borders without parent to care for them.

What a mess human beings are doing to their youth... a lot of time driven by economic pressure from big industry.

 

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drakonwick

This really is disturbing and inhumane! Countries like Egypt seem to always be wrapped up in extreme belief systems and ideologies. Children do not deserve to suffer for the actions of others.

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Piney
21 minutes ago, drakonwick said:

This really is disturbing and inhumane! Countries like Egypt seem to always be wrapped up in extreme belief systems and ideologies. Children do not deserve to suffer for the actions of others.

That's what happens in a theocracy.  

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drakonwick
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Piney said:

That's what happens in a theocracy.  

Agreed! This is why I feel these countries need to catch up with the times and implement a separation of religion and government. Although that's not likely to happen anytime soon.

Edited by drakonwick
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and then
2 hours ago, drakonwick said:

Agreed! This is why I feel these countries need to catch up with the times and implement a separation of religion and government. Although that's not likely to happen anytime soon.

Doing that would literally be antithetical to their beliefs about government :( 

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drakonwick
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, and then said:

Doing that would literally be antithetical to their beliefs about government :( 

I know! Unfortunately they rely on religion for support and use it to guide their decisions. It's a chaotic unevolved system.

Edited by drakonwick
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RoofGardener

I was under the impression that the Egyptian government was under Secular control. Mind you.. so where the governments of Stalin and Hitler. I'm not convinced that religion plays any particular role in cruelty and oppression in Egypt; it just seems a regional tradition ? 

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Sir Smoke aLot
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

I was under the impression that the Egyptian government was under Secular control. Mind you.. so where the governments of Stalin and Hitler. I'm not convinced that religion plays any particular role in cruelty and oppression in Egypt; it just seems a regional tradition ? 

In turbulent regions where power is shifted by force instead by politics - things tend to became like that. So it's not religion nor it is tradition, it's pure evil and violence - brought to the ordinary people by those who fight for wealth especially since wars for colonies were over and other methods for domination and exploatation were invented.

This is best seen through Egyptian energy sector corruption.

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RoofGardener
7 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

In turbulent regions where power is shifted by force instead by politics - things tend to became like that. So it's not religion nor it is tradition, it's pure evil and violence - brought to the ordinary people by those who fight for wealth especially since wars for colonies were over and other methods for domination and exploatation were invented.

This is best seen through Egyptian energy sector corruption.

As opposed to agricultural sector corruption, building sector corruption, civil service sector corruption, etc etc etc ? :P

 

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Sir Smoke aLot
1 minute ago, RoofGardener said:

As opposed to agricultural sector corruption, building sector corruption, civil service sector corruption, etc etc etc ? :P

 

I just wanted to make it simple and energy sector in Egypt has long history of corruption. Anyhow, corruption is present everywhere, somewhere less and somewhere it's very high. But it spreads, maybe even faster than this new virus.

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RabidMongoose
12 hours ago, Eldorado said:

"Egyptian security forces have been accused of wide-ranging abuses against children, including enforced disappearances, arbitrary arrests and torture in jail, Human Rights Watch said in a report published on Monday.

"The report contains testimony from 20 children who were between 12 and 17-years-old when they were arrested. Fifteen of them said they were tortured in pre-trial detention, with seven saying officers used electricity — such as stun guns — to torture them.

""Children are describing being waterboarded and electrocuted on their tongues and genitals, and yet Egypt's security forces are facing no consequences," said Bill Van Esveld, HRW associate children's rights director."

Full article at DW Germany: Link

The Human Rights Watch report: Link

At the Times of Israel: Link

And at Middle East Eye: Link

This is widespread in the Middle East.

I dont agree with torture as part of an investigation even if the facts extracted are found to be true. This is because innocents are also subjected to pain. Obviously an innocent person (even if they have a limited awareness of a crime) cannot give a full account of it so I dont think it leads to any wrongful convictions. But its a violation of their human rights when they are tortured.

When it comes to criminals we only lock them up here and as a result we are trapped into the view that people with personality disorders cannot be changed. Instead we give them the skills to self manage their conditions and hope the fear of losing their freedom again will result in them using them. But the high rate of re-offending shows it usually doesnt work.

Should torture be used on offenders? In Middle Eastern countries it is. It can range from 100 lashes to electrocution. It can even include losing body parts like removing the offending hand from a thief. Is the Arab approach to punishment more effective at preventing re-offending? Actually, it is. Electrocution is so effective it can even teach a horse how to fly (that was a little sadistic of me! lol).

Here in the West experiments with other approaches have been tried like enrolling criminal offenders onto military basic training in return for a reduction in their sentence. Psychologists know that military training affects changes to some ones personality. Basically the drill instructor using psychological and emotional abuse to break down the maggot. Then when the maggot breaks in the mind they are rebuilt into a soldier (or in this case a law abiding citizen).

Breaking people down works because when they reach the point that they realise if they dont change the drill instructor is going to end up killing them through a heart attack. Their need to survive overrides they underlying traumas.

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Setton
8 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

In turbulent regions where power is shifted by force instead by politics - things tend to became like that. So it's not religion nor it is tradition, it's pure evil and violence - brought to the ordinary people by those who fight for wealth especially since wars for colonies were over and other methods for domination and exploatation were invented.

This is best seen through Egyptian energy sector corruption.

Exactly this. 

It isn't religious, otherwise all Islamic countries would have the same issues - they don't. 

It isn't cultural tradition - this kind of corruption and abuse is new to many of these countries. 

It is simply the result of a removal of one system of government without a clear successor. Whether the result of popular uprising or botched occupation. 

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odas
On 3/24/2020 at 7:45 AM, RoofGardener said:

I was under the impression that the Egyptian government was under Secular control. Mind you.. so where the governments of Stalin and Hitler. I'm not convinced that religion plays any particular role in cruelty and oppression in Egypt; it just seems a regional tradition ? 

It used to be under Mubarak. But your goverment had different ideas. Irak under Sadam was secular, no matter what your media says. Lybia under Ghaddafi. Syria.

Creating sheeet everwhere and then pointing fingers. Still works for you but not for long.

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RoofGardener
On 3/24/2020 at 10:10 PM, Setton said:

Exactly this. 

It isn't religious, otherwise all Islamic countries would have the same issues - they don't. 

It isn't cultural tradition - this kind of corruption and abuse is new to many of these countries. 

It is simply the result of a removal of one system of government without a clear successor. Whether the result of popular uprising or botched occupation. 

I dunno @Setton. The Egyptian government has a history of brutality and corruption that dates back to .. well.. medieval times ? 

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Piney
3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

I dunno @Setton. The Egyptian government has a history of brutality and corruption that dates back to .. well.. medieval times ? 

The Ptolemaic Kingdom.......

 

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