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Eldorado

Last known survivor of slave trade identified

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Eldorado
Posted (edited)

"A woman called Matilda McCrear has been identified as the last known survivor of the transatlantic slave trade.

"Dr Hannah Durkin of Newcastle University discovered Matilda to be the latest survivor of the Clotilda, the last slave ship to arrive in the US in 1860.

"Ms McCrear died in 1940, aged either 81 or 82, three years after Sally ‘Redoshi’ Smith, who was previously understood to be the last survivor of the slave ship.

"Her 83-year-old grandson, Johnny Crear, had no idea about his grandmother’s history until it was discovered by Dr Durkin."

At the UK Independent: Link

And at Newcastle University: Link

Edited by Eldorado
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zygote

Wow, very sad - but also heartwarming that she'll now be remembered.

"Stolen from Africa, brought to America" - Bob Marley. 

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Tuco's Gas
Posted (edited)

But we here in the U.S. still have tens off thousands of blacks who are the descendants of 18th and 19th century slaves.

Many can be seen by watching an NBA or NFL game, where the selective breeding that 19th century slaveholders practiced created physically robust offspring.

 

Edited by Tuco's Gas
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hetrodoxly
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Tuco's Gas said:

But we here in the U.S. still have tens off thousands of blacks who are the descendants of 18th and 19th century slaves.

Many can be seen by watching an NBA or NFL game, where the selective breeding that 19th century slaveholders practiced created physically robust offspring.

 

You also have the descendants of the thousands of British slaves, unlike the black slaves they couldn't be sold on, which sounds a lot better and may have been so, but an 18th century travel writer visiting America remarked "Why do you have the white men in the bottom of the boat where the sacks being lifted can fall and kill them and the black men doing the work up top", the slave owners reply was "The black slaves are worth money"

Edited by hetrodoxly
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Not Your Huckleberry
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

You also have the descendants of the thousands of British slaves, unlike the black slaves they couldn't be sold on, which sounds a lot better and may have been so, but an 18th century travel writer visiting America remarked "Why do you have the white men in the bottom of the boat where the sacks being lifted can fall and kill them and the black en doing the work up top", the slave owners reply was "The black slaves are worth money"

Coming from cooler climates, British and Scot Irish slaves often couldn't tolerate the extreme heat and humidity of the South. They practically expected them to die. 

Edited by Not Your Huckleberry
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Piney
7 minutes ago, Not Your Huckleberry said:

Coming from cooler climates, British and Scot Irish slaves often couldn't tolerate the extreme heat and humidity of the South. They practically expected them to die. 

Native American slaves were dropping like flies from zoonotic diseases, which is why the trans-Atlantic slave trade was started in the first place. 

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Swede
Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Tuco's Gas said:

But we here in the U.S. still have tens off thousands of blacks who are the descendants of 18th and 19th century slaves.

Many can be seen by watching an NBA or NFL game, where the selective breeding that 19th century slaveholders practiced created physically robust offspring.

 

Oh, my.

Selective breeding between slaves with the aim of developing particular physical traits was uncommon, however,[3] as most slaves were unrestricted in their choice of sexual partners.[4]

Robert Fogel and Stanley Engerman reject the idea that systematic slave breeding was a major economic concern in their 1974 book Time on the Cross.[17] They argue that there is very meager evidence for the systematic breeding of slaves for sale in the market in the Upper South during the 19th century. They distinguish systematic breeding—the interference in normal sexual patterns by masters with an aim to increase fertility or encourage desirable characteristics—from pro-natalist policies, the generalized encouragement of large families through a combination of rewards, improved living and working conditions for fertile women and their children, and other policy changes by masters. They point out that the demographic evidence is subject to a number of interpretations. Fogel argues that when planters intervened in the private lives of slaves it actually had a negative impact on population growth.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_breeding_in_the_United_States

One must then consider the some six to eight succeeding post-importation/post emancipation generations and the associated cultural milieus

Or would you be suggesting that the many successful modern athletes.are the direct and unaffected genetic descendants of the Postbellum period?

Edit: Highlight.

.

 

 

Edited by Swede
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Not Your Huckleberry
1 minute ago, Piney said:

Native American slaves were dropping like flies from zoonotic diseases, which is why the trans-Atlantic slave trade was started in the first place. 

See, most don't even know that. You hear very little, if anything at all, about the Native American slaves. 

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Piney
Just now, Not Your Huckleberry said:

See, most don't even know that. You hear very little, if anything at all, about the Native American slaves. 

"Pawnee" means slave. The Shawnee would bring them and Southern Siouians like the Kansa and Osage to sell in Charleston.

My tribe sold Navajos and Comanches to Mexicans when we merc'd for Carson and worked as scalp hunters in the Southwest. 

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Piney
45 minutes ago, Tuco's Gas said:

But we here in the U.S. still have tens off thousands of blacks who are the descendants of 18th and 19th century slaves.

I have 2 slave ancestors. One fought for Washington's Army. 

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Eldorado
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Not Your Huckleberry said:

See, most don't even know that. You hear very little, if anything at all, about the Native American slaves. 

"The US Stole Generations of Native American Children to Open the West

"Nearly 200 Native children lie buried at the entrance of the Carlisle Barracks.

"Although Carlisle is located in the East, it played a key role in pressuring the West’s most intransigent tribes to cede and sell land by taking their children hostage."

Portside: https://portside.org/2019-10-19/us-stole-generations-native-american-children-open-west

Philly Inquirer: https://www.inquirer.com/news/inq/those-kids-never-got-go-home-20160319.html

 

"Transfer the savage born infant to the surroundings of a civilization and he will grow to possess a civilized language and habit."

from The Indian Industrial School : Carlisle, Pennsylvania, 1879-1918. By Linda F. Witmer

Carlisle Indian School Project: http://www.carlisleindianschoolproject.com/history/

Edited by Eldorado
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Tuco's Gas
20 minutes ago, Piney said:

I have 2 slave ancestors. One fought for Washington's Army. 

You're an African-American, Pinester?

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Piney
10 minutes ago, Tuco's Gas said:

You're an African-American, Pinester?

My Tribe, the Nanticoke-Lenape is a Eastern Remnant Tribe so we are heavily intermarried with Blacks and my grandmother was half Black. 

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Tuco's Gas
30 minutes ago, Swede said:

Oh, my.

Selective breeding between slaves with the aim of developing particular physical traits was uncommon, however,[3] as most slaves were unrestricted in their choice of sexual partners.[4]

Robert Fogel and Stanley Engerman reject the idea that systematic slave breeding was a major economic concern in their 1974 book Time on the Cross.[17] They argue that there is very meager evidence for the systematic breeding of slaves for sale in the market in the Upper South during the 19th century. They distinguish systematic breeding—the interference in normal sexual patterns by masters with an aim to increase fertility or encourage desirable characteristics—from pro-natalist policies, the generalized encouragement of large families through a combination of rewards, improved living and working conditions for fertile women and their children, and other policy changes by masters. They point out that the demographic evidence is subject to a number of interpretations. Fogel argues that when planters intervened in the private lives of slaves it actually had a negative impact on population growth.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_breeding_in_the_United_States

One must then consider the some six to eight succeeding post-importation/post emancipation generations and the associated cultural milieus

Or would you be suggesting that the many successful modern athletes.are the direct and unaffected genetic descendants of the Postbellum period?

Edit: Highlight.

.

 

 

I still believe that some but by no means all slaveholders of larger plantations often engaged in meddling in the child production of their "property" in order to reap physically robust progeny. Despite the linked article's claim. I think that such practices would be awfully difficult to catalogue or refute by 20th century historians and other writers.

And even if the selective breeding was limited, the slaveholders certainly had already put their hand in the physicality of their slaves' progeny by initially purchasing the most physically fit slaves they could afford.

Yes, there are of course many unfit and non-athletic American born blacks in the U.S. today, but the percentage of athletically gifted ones is significantly higher than that of those of the Caucasian persuasion.

Damn..why do I think I sound like Jimmy the Greek when I say that? LOL. 

(That last reference will be lost on many, but some will remember his verbal gaff many years ago while drinking with a sportswriter, which lead to his demise as a sports broadcaster and media celebrity.)

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Piney
2 minutes ago, Tuco's Gas said:

Yes, there are of course many unfit and non-athletic American born blacks in the U.S. today, but the percentage of athletically gifted ones is significantly higher than that of those of the Caucasian persuasion.

 

Because they were ripped straight off of a Warrior-Hunter culture. 

 

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Tuco's Gas
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Piney said:

Because they were ripped straight off of a Warrior-Hunter culture. 

 

You said it more pithily than I could have. Thanks. I didn't want to be that succinct since as a white dude--a Texan, no less--I was wary of being accused of being the dread (And overused) "R" word. LOL.

Uh, I meant racist and not retarded.

Edited by Tuco's Gas
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Piney
5 minutes ago, Tuco's Gas said:

You said it more pithily than I could have. Thanks. I didn't want to be that succinct since as a white dude--a Texan, no less--I was wary of being accused of being the dread (And overused) "R" word. LOL.

Uh, I meant racist and not retarded.

I'm tri-racial and don't care who accuses me of what.......:yes:

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and then
1 hour ago, Not Your Huckleberry said:

They practically expected them to die. 

Too right!  There's a good reason that I HATE the climate in the place I was born to... it just isn't natural to have so much moisture in the air that the sweat mechanism CANNOT cool you down.  The first time I traveled out west (Albuquerque)  I had this strange, tingling feeling on my skin and it took a moment to realize that THIS is how our bodies were made to get rid of heat :w00t:

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and then

The Clotilde was run aground and burned in the north part of Mobile.  It's been said that that last "shipment" was the result of a drunken wager... :(   The slaves founded a community locally known as "Africa Town"

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hetrodoxly
8 hours ago, Not Your Huckleberry said:

Coming from cooler climates, British and Scot Irish slaves often couldn't tolerate the extreme heat and humidity of the South. They practically expected them to die. 

Scots/Irish, we call them Northern Irish, a group of English and lowland Scottish planters that went to America via Northern Ireland, i've not heard of this group being slaves,though ending in the same region as the planters, the large westcountry group and all those from Northern England that took their culture clogging etc, your typical feuding hillbillies the Suttons and Taylors went from the midlands of England an area known as the 'Black Country' because of the coal mines and slag heaps, agents would go around the poor areas offering free passage to America, the Suttons and Taylors went from a ramshackle shanty town known as Lye waste, but the majority were taken off the streets of London and big cities, prisoners etc. 

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jmccr8
31 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

Scots/Irish, we call them Northern Irish, a group of English and lowland Scottish planters that went to America via Northern Ireland, i've not heard of this group being slaves

Hi Hetrodoxly

Irish transportees were first brought to Jamaica in large numbers as indentured servants under the English republic of Oliver Cromwell following the capture of Jamaica from the Spanish in 1655 by William Pen and Robert Venables as part of Cromwell's strategic plan to dominate the Caribbean: the "Western Design".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_people_in_Jamaica

jmccr8

 

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hetrodoxly
37 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Hetrodoxly

Irish transportees were first brought to Jamaica in large numbers as indentured servants under the English republic of Oliver Cromwell following the capture of Jamaica from the Spanish in 1655 by William Pen and Robert Venables as part of Cromwell's strategic plan to dominate the Caribbean: the "Western Design".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_people_in_Jamaica

jmccr8

 

This is a different to my post but none the less bad, English transportees were being sent to America, the way the rich treat the poor the world over, the irony is the amount of Irish slave owners, and Irish slave ships were the worse on the high seas.

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jmccr8
8 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

This is a different to my post but none the less bad, English transportees were being sent to America, the way the rich treat the poor the world over, the irony is the amount of Irish slave owners, and Irish slave ships were the worse on the high seas.

Hi Hetrodoxly

A slave is a slave period not to sound indifferent, I was just adding context and was not inferring.

jmccr8

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hetrodoxly
56 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Hetrodoxly

A slave is a slave period not to sound indifferent, I was just adding context and was not inferring.

jmccr8

I agreed with your post.

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Piney
1 hour ago, hetrodoxly said:

This is a different to my post but none the less bad, English transportees were being sent to America, the way the rich treat the poor the world over, the irony is the amount of Irish slave owners, and Irish slave ships were the worse on the high seas.

I thought Cromwell or Charles II had literally sold several hundred Covenanters into servitude? 

I can't find a reference now

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