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EU meltdown.


hetrodoxly
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2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Why? - because you keep trying to isolate yourself in a situation that requires cooperation, even between actual enemies - not to mention your bizarre belief that the EU is your enemy is utterly devastating for you, not for the EU. 

This is just utter nonsense, we love are European friends, this is just what's going on in your twisted head.

 

2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Proof - both Brexit and Trump being Russian pet projects is the axiom. Denying it makes the denier put their sanity in question, not the axiom in question

You saying it isn't proof, lets see the proof.

 

2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Stating the obvious - yes, but you'll still cut your nose to spite your face.   

How are we doing that?

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3 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

So you came to cry that your Trumplandia is the real victim, in a thread about the EU? 

At least there's God after all and one of the guys who was publicly blaring that COVID is a lie designed to hurt your messiah of stupidity - has died. Of COVID. Have a pity party over the fact that it's Trumps yuuuge fault you will indeed have the yuuuuugest death toll. 

Also, stay on topic and cry over your selfish incompetence someplace else.  

:passifier:

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I don't expect you, Brexiters and Trumpers, to come to your senses publicly

But I hope you're beginning to notice your political decisions were illogical and therefore wrong.

Your political platforms were based on mythical hereditary supremacy of your particular political affiliation - that's so hilariously bizarre it cannot function in a real world, it's morbid comedy stuff. 

Times are too complicated now, when we've got global economy disruption, to keep on acting like children locked mentally in their own fantasy world. 

More closely on topic, UK won't profit if the EU indeed 'melts down'. Healthy, functioning EU is in the interest of a sane UK, and our future more than good relations are our common interest. Anyone who tells you the opposite either is pushing you over the cliff, either is truly retarded. 

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4 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

It's not me glued to the EU teat pretending everything's rosey, grow some balls and face the facts.

Cerne-abbas-giant-2001-cropped.jpgYou are obsessed with those appendages.

Your arbitrary and unfounded accusations are noted. I don't need to grow what I already have. Neither am I glued to any teat. I am a fully independent, functioning and contributing member of my society. I am not a freeloader. I do not pretend that everything is rosy and I always face facts. In fact, facts are my stock in trade, unlike the Express and many Brexiteers on here, and of course yourself. Your pet fantasies are clear evidence to any intelligent observer just how far from facing the facts you are. 

4 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

I imagined you'd have known the poem and it's meaning, but your lack of comprehension doesn't surprise me

Of course I know the poem!  And understand it. And no need to pretend having to imagine what must be obvious as it is the basis of my avatar. You need to face facts  and stop making silly and gratuitous judgements that have no merit. It is obvious that you make them in order to obfuscate and avoid honest debate.  

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2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I don't expect you, Brexiters and Trumpers, to come to your senses publicly

But I hope you're beginning to notice your political decisions were illogical and therefore wrong.

Your political platforms were based on mythical hereditary supremacy of your particular political affiliation - that's so hilariously bizarre it cannot function in a real world, it's morbid comedy stuff. 

Times are too complicated now, when we've got global economy disruption, to keep on acting like children locked mentally in their own fantasy world. 

More closely on topic, UK won't profit if the EU indeed 'melts down'. Healthy, functioning EU is in the interest of a sane UK, and our future more than good relations are our common interest. Anyone who tells you the opposite either is pushing you over the cliff, either is truly retarded. 

I do find your posts funny sometimes.

There are many people totally Pro-EU (like yourself) and its a valid stance to have in a Democracy. So are anti-EU stances and pro-Trumpism. In an election or referendum rational debates are had and then the majority of the public decides who is the most viable leader or what is the best approach.

Populism is the key to Democracy, its about giving the majority of the people what they really want. Anybody against populism is anti-democratic by its very definition. Your political beliefs are unpopular in the US and the UK. The kind of arguments you make are and have been firmly rejected. Maybe they are popular in Croatia be us Brits and Americans have a different future in mind for ourselves.

Trump has worked wonders in the US and is firmly on course to being re-elected. Us Brits have started on our second rise. That is populism, that is democracy. My only dissatisfaction is that after 200 years the US and UK haven't patched up their split yet.

Fingers crossed for the future though. I would like to see the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, and the UK, form our own block. Not a mirror copy of the EU, more limited in its powers though. Together we can all go on a journey to Mars instead of Venus.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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11 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Trump has worked wonders in the US and is firmly on course to being re-elected. Us Brits have started on our second rise. That is populism, that is democracy.

That's something else, but I'll follow forum guidelines and won't use the exact word.  

There's a lot of karma is this synchronized self-inflicted downfall of the US and UK, but since I'm not stupid, I don't gloat over that, it worries me and sadness me because I know an average Brit or American are no different than me, they don't deserve this and there's no healthy, lasting progress based on short-term advantage gained on someone else's misery.

 

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35 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Trump has worked wonders in the US and is firmly on course to being re-elected.

Dont bet for it.

Quote

The missing six weeks: how Trump failed the biggest test of his life

The president was aware of the danger from the coronavirus – but a lack of leadership has created an emergency of epic proportions

(...)

Two days after the first diagnosis in Washington state, Donald Trump went on air on CNBC and bragged: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming from China. It’s going to be just fine.”

(..)

“The US response will be studied for generations as a textbook example of a disastrous, failed effort,”

(...)

The Guardian

 

Edited by toast
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1 hour ago, Ozymandias said:

Cerne-abbas-giant-2001-cropped.jpgYou are obsessed with those appendages.

Your arbitrary and unfounded accusations are noted. I don't need to grow what I already have. Neither am I glued to any teat. I am a fully independent, functioning and contributing member of my society. I am not a freeloader. I do not pretend that everything is rosy and I always face facts. In fact, facts are my stock in trade, unlike the Express and many Brexiteers on here, and of course yourself. Your pet fantasies are clear evidence to any intelligent observer just how far from facing the facts you are. 

Of course I know the poem!  And understand it. And no need to pretend having to imagine what must be obvious as it is the basis of my avatar. You need to face facts  and stop making silly and gratuitous judgements that have no merit. It is obvious that you make them in order to obfuscate and avoid honest debate.  

Meaningless drivel. 

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1 hour ago, hetrodoxly said:

Meaningless drivel. 

The 'Meaningless Drivel' is the title you gave to this thread. There is no 'EU Meltdown'. The term is a clickbait headline in the Express, a tabloid rag whose readership, like all delusional Brexiteers, will fall for it every time because they yearn so much for it to be true. They feed off it like addicts and it provides them their confirmation bias and reinforces their misguided sense of exceptionalism. I know it comes from the Centre for European Reform but I challenge you to read it anyway ….

https://www.cer.eu/insights/british-and-their-exceptionalism 

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3 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

My only dissatisfaction is that after 200 years the US and UK haven't patched up their split yet.

Fingers crossed for the future though. I would like to see the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, and the UK, form our own block. Not a mirror copy of the EU, more limited in its powers though.

What in the world is that?  We are on pretty good terms I think.  Only if you believe you still have a right to govern us after 200 years of independence do we have a split.

Give up on a second British Empire.  We are done with that.  Still, we wish you success and good fortune  as you stand on your own.

If it is in our strategic interest, we will deal with you.  Even Canada, one of our biggest trading partners knows not to cross us or get too uppity.   

What help can you offer Canada against Russian incursion in the far North or a trade war with the US if it came to that?

What can you offer as incentives or threats to New Zealand  and Australia that outweigh the presence of China, Japan, and East Asia?  Would you go to their aid economically or militarily if they were threatened?

The British Isles have been the home of a number of prosperous and powerful peoples and kingdoms for at least two thousand years.  One lesson I take from that is that every great and powerful kingdom is eclipsed.  The original Brithons fell to other Celts who fell to Romans who fell to Germanic tribesmen who fell to Danes who fell to Normans. 

The glories of past generations are a source of pride to be sure, but your generation, and  our generation in the US  has to make our own way in the world.  We start with a lot of inherited advantages, but that is no guarantee.

Sometimes the scions of great and wealthy houses .fall into ineffectual dissolution when they rely too heavily on a sense on entitlement rather than intelligence and industry.

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1 hour ago, Ozymandias said:

The 'Meaningless Drivel' is the title you gave to this thread. There is no 'EU Meltdown'. The term is a clickbait headline in the Express, a tabloid rag whose readership, like all delusional Brexiteers, will fall for it every time because they yearn so much for it to be true. They feed off it like addicts and it provides them their confirmation bias and reinforces their misguided sense of exceptionalism. I know it comes from the Centre for European Reform but I challenge you to read it anyway ….

https://www.cer.eu/insights/british-and-their-exceptionalism 

You need to keep up with the news. from the most left wing woke EU loving sources available, if they say it's true it's through gritted teeth. 

President Emmanuel Macron of France is said to have told leaders the political reaction after the crisis could spell the end of the EU.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52058742

European leaders have clashed over how to pull their economies through the coronavirus crisis, as Italy accused other member states of a timid response to an unprecedented economic shock.

But the idea of shared debt remains anathema to Germany, Austria and the Netherlands, who shunned the similar concept of “eurobonds” during the eurozone crisis a few years earlier.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/eu-leaders-clash-over-economic-response-to-coronavirus-crisis

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45 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

You need to keep up with the news. from the most left wing woke EU loving sources available, if they say it's true it's through gritted teeth. 

President Emmanuel Macron of France is said to have told leaders the political reaction after the crisis could spell the end of the EU.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52058742

European leaders have clashed over how to pull their economies through the coronavirus crisis, as Italy accused other member states of a timid response to an unprecedented economic shock.

But the idea of shared debt remains anathema to Germany, Austria and the Netherlands, who shunned the similar concept of “eurobonds” during the eurozone crisis a few years earlier.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/eu-leaders-clash-over-economic-response-to-coronavirus-crisis

Did you notice that, contrary to Brexiter propaganda, decisions in the EU are made through series of consultations between members?

The exact instruments of large-scale economic measures were not agreed upon yet, but it's a matter of time. (Humanitarian, emergency, medical aid works.) Those in greater need of aid coincidentally come with economic issues predating COVID, so some guarantees on their part will be necessary. 

You're reading the negotiating language literally, while you should realize that the first stance is extreme precisely because it leaves everyone room for getting approximately that what they will be content with in the end. (Similar to the extreme UK stance that you want unicorns farting rainbows from the EU, so you'll get only farts in the end. Kidding. On your expense. Couldn't resist.) 

And let me repeat one more time that possible breakdown of the EU won't magically solve your suicidal position. You might draw some perverted pleasure out of the sight at destruction of a union everyone sane wants and needs, but that's all. 

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23 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Did you notice that, contrary to Brexiter propaganda, decisions in the EU are made through series of consultations between members?

The exact instruments of large-scale economic measures were not agreed upon yet, but it's a matter of time. (Humanitarian, emergency, medical aid works.) Those in greater need of aid coincidentally come with economic issues predating COVID, so some guarantees on their part will be necessary. 

You're reading the negotiating language literally, while you should realize that the first stance is extreme precisely because it leaves everyone room for getting approximately that what they will be content with in the end. (Similar to the extreme UK stance that you want unicorns farting rainbows from the EU, so you'll get only farts in the end. Kidding. On your expense. Couldn't resist.) 

And let me repeat one more time that possible breakdown of the EU won't magically solve your suicidal position. You might draw some perverted pleasure out of the sight at destruction of a union everyone sane wants and needs, but that's all. 

Italy are kicking off because of Capital Flight Risk. 

The EU should bail them out. Macron understands this and also knows that it could very easily be the end of the EU in its curent format. 

The Euro needs to be abandoned to allow member counties to let off steam in their own economy if the EU is to succeed. 

But the EU will never let that happen. So the old sleight of hand tricks continue. 

Stick to simple trade agreements, dispose of the beauracracy creep (and the large MEP budgets, and the BS monthly move to Starsbourg or wherwver they go to) and ditch the Euro. Then the EU might survive. 

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31 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

And let me repeat one more time that possible breakdown of the EU won't magically solve your suicidal position. You might draw some perverted pleasure out of the sight at destruction of a union everyone sane wants and needs, but that's all. 

There goes your twisted perverted mind again, i don't want the EU to fail, i wish it all the success in the world, i have posted links to people being murdered in the past but i can assure you i don't want to see anyone murdered, you really are weird.

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@hetrodoxly No, it's you being weird. 

You started a thread because you loved a propaganda article so much. It maliciously misinterprets facts to give Brexiters impression that the EU is melting down. So you brought good news to your fellow Brexiters. An Italian populist is slamming Merkel! Come gloat!

Forgetting that you might walk into people who don't share your jingoist enthusiasm. 

You spent 3 pages spitting on the EU and anyone who doesn't feel pathological animosity against it. 

And now you suddenly wish the EU all the success in the world? 

Son, were you seriously hoping that this empty phrase, obviously an utter hypocrisy, not use the exact, harsh word, will make me go away? 

Ah, no. 

 

So let's go through your problem one more time. 

Brexit gained momentum thanks to Russian troll army. They correctly diagnosed your ridiculous belief in myth of your supremacy. They kept pumping you with grandiose but completely irrational ideas of some imaginary hyper-competent Britain that can wreck the EU and profit from it. 

What you forgot is that you're not in the position to profit from wrecking around. These times are long gone. Your own economy depends on its ties with the world and all those trumpesque new trade deals you were promised won't be because they can't be better than you had while in the EU. 

You sawed off the branch you were sitting on and now you're cackling like idiots when someone reassures you the tree will fall down too.

 

Do you begin to notice why your hypocrisy is obvious? You can't at the same time post propaganda that consist of gloating over 'melting down' of the EU and claim you wish that same EU all the success. 

And do you begin to notice just how irrational is the myth of British supremacy on which the whole Brexit is based? You're not self-sufficient. You've got nothing except the financial market left and both your isolationist delusions and the COVID are about to change that too.     

 

Edited by Helen of Annoy
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22 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

You need to keep up with the news. from the most left wing woke EU loving sources available, if they say it's true it's through gritted teeth. 

President Emmanuel Macron of France is said to have told leaders the political reaction after the crisis could spell the end of the EU.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52058742

A good article by Katya Adler that you apparently did not read properly or fully. Instead, in typical confirmation bias mode, you picked out those early statements in the piece that feed your fantasy, soundbites that Adler went on to demonstrate are without real substance.

22 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

European leaders have clashed over how to pull their economies through the coronavirus crisis, as Italy accused other member states of a timid response to an unprecedented economic shock.

But the idea of shared debt remains anathema to Germany, Austria and the Netherlands, who shunned the similar concept of “eurobonds” during the eurozone crisis a few years earlier.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/eu-leaders-clash-over-economic-response-to-coronavirus-crisis

She opened her report by quoting the anti-EU camp as follows:

"The EU is finished," gloat the nay-sayers. "Even faced with the coronavirus, its members can't stick together."

She then explores this notion a little before showing in the latter part of the piece that, actually,

'it's far too simplistic to write off the European Union' [and it is] 'too lazy to say European unity has been entirely absent during the coronavirus crisis'.

Didn't you read any of that? Face the facts, Cern Abbas Man. The lack of understanding you previously accused me of is entirely yours. You failed to comprehend the whole thrust of Adler's report. While observing that the EU leaders failed to collectively agree a way to share the debt of fighting Covid-19, she specifically noted that 'the EU can't force the hand of national leaders' and she went on to outline all the measures that those same leaders under the aegis of the EU, and in solidarity with each other, had actually put in place, including a 750 billion Euro economic rescue package and the suspension of Eurozone monetary and state aid rules to help individual governments. She ended by stating the following:

'[The European Central Bank] also said that there is "broad agreement" among EU countries to use the European Stability Mechanism, set up in 2012 on the back of the financial crisis, as a coronavirus crisis emergency fund - although predictably there are arguments among member states as to what conditions should be attached to the money.

We are talking about the EU, after all.'

The meaning of Katya Adler's report, if you read it, is simple: there is no EU meltdown.  

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The Project is over. its a simple as that. Its a massive loss with the UK leaving, like we all know the EU is a fair weather project, its to cumbersome to react in time, loses critical time when trying to get 27 opinions to agree, not quick enough reacting to events its member states let alone the wider world. The whole thing is just lurching from one crisis to the next. We've had the economic crisis which has loaded it with debt. then we've had the migrant crisis which seen borders go up and countries turning on one another, Then more economic woes again where they've started quantitative easing buying up more debt and then this virus as struck, - believe me the EU economy is not going to turn back on like flicking a switch. they still have the massive black hole in the budget left by the UK and if they couldn't agree before this latest crisis what's the chances now.

Heck the EU are struggling to continue the Brexit negotiations. it seems their experts aren't so expert. trouble with skype.

 

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9 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

:passifier::sleepy:

Typical Brexiter eloquence.

I see we can't expect any multisyllable words from you this year. 

 

44 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

The Project is over. its a simple as that. Its a massive loss with the UK leaving, like we all know the EU is a fair weather project, its to cumbersome to react in time, loses critical time when trying to get 27 opinions to agree, not quick enough reacting to events its member states let alone the wider world. The whole thing is just lurching from one crisis to the next. We've had the economic crisis which has loaded it with debt. then we've had the migrant crisis which seen borders go up and countries turning on one another, Then more economic woes again where they've started quantitative easing buying up more debt and then this virus as struck, - believe me the EU economy is not going to turn back on like flicking a switch. they still have the massive black hole in the budget left by the UK and if they couldn't agree before this latest crisis what's the chances now.

Heck the EU are struggling to continue the Brexit negotiations. it seems their experts aren't so expert. trouble with skype.

 

And there he is, placing trust in his gaping hole.

Congratulations.

Pray harder and include food too on your wish list, because without EU funds you've got nothing except stock market. You can't eat stocks, no matter how hard they'll be falling right at your feet.  

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1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Typical Brexiter eloquence.

I see we can't expect any multisyllable words from you this year. 

 

And there he is, placing trust in his gaping hole.

Congratulations.

Pray harder and include food too on your wish list, because without EU funds you've got nothing except stock market. You can't eat stocks, no matter how hard they'll be falling right at your feet.  

Don't be so silly. educate yourself woman, how much does the financial centre contribute to the UK economy.

You need to stop looking at the situation through feeble Croatian eyes. your terrified of the Russians, the UK economy is twice the size of Russia -  The UK is a globalised economy. do you realise that a GLOBALISED economy.

There is a world out there. the EU is fatally damaged. when a country of the stature of the United Kingdom leaves its an indictment of the project itself.

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9 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

A good article by Katya Adler that you apparently did not read properly or fully. Instead, in typical confirmation bias mode, you picked out those early statements in the piece that feed your fantasy, soundbites that Adler went on to demonstrate are without real substance.

She opened her report by quoting the anti-EU camp as follows:

"The EU is finished," gloat the nay-sayers. "Even faced with the coronavirus, its members can't stick together."

She then explores this notion a little before showing in the latter part of the piece that, actually,

'it's far too simplistic to write off the European Union' [and it is] 'too lazy to say European unity has been entirely absent during the coronavirus crisis'.

Didn't you read any of that? Face the facts, Cern Abbas Man. The lack of understanding you previously accused me of is entirely yours. You failed to comprehend the whole thrust of Adler's report. While observing that the EU leaders failed to collectively agree a way to share the debt of fighting Covid-19, she specifically noted that 'the EU can't force the hand of national leaders' and she went on to outline all the measures that those same leaders under the aegis of the EU, and in solidarity with each other, had actually put in place, including a 750 billion Euro economic rescue package and the suspension of Eurozone monetary and state aid rules to help individual governments. She ended by stating the following:

'[The European Central Bank] also said that there is "broad agreement" among EU countries to use the European Stability Mechanism, set up in 2012 on the back of the financial crisis, as a coronavirus crisis emergency fund - although predictably there are arguments among member states as to what conditions should be attached to the money.

We are talking about the EU, after all.'

The meaning of Katya Adler's report, if you read it, is simple: there is no EU meltdown.  

I found the most left-wing EU loving point of view possible, to find any criticism of them is unusual and what i posted was said, President Emmanuel Macron of France told leaders the political reaction after the crisis could spell the end of the EU.

You're in denial, you're EU empire dream may be in trouble and all your fantasies may not come true.

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42 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Don't be so silly. educate yourself woman, how much does the financial centre contribute to the UK economy.

You need to stop looking at the situation through feeble Croatian eyes. your terrified of the Russians, the UK economy is twice the size of Russia -  The UK is a globalised economy. do you realise that a GLOBALISED economy.

There is a world out there. the EU is fatally damaged. when a country of the stature of the United Kingdom leaves its an indictment of the project itself.

Aha. It must be me who doesn't understand globalized economy. It couldn't be people so hilariously special they're driving their globalized economy into isolation, hoping their imaginary supernatural idol status will substitute for the agreements they once had as EU member. 

Little Englander, no one will rush into your leeching arms. Game over, learn to contribute.   

 

Speaking of Russians, I'm not afraid of anyone, except my angry self, especially not from my family. I was warning various racist idiots in the West that Russians are not doing you trolling favours because they like you, they're doing them to sabotage you. 

But you want to believe so desperately that there's some imaginary white axis, consisting of Trump, Putin and... Johnson. Oh, my... I almost feel sorry for Putin, he might be this and that, but to remain recorded in history in such company... fitting, but a bit too harsh punishment. 

 

Also, there's no right moment for a pandemic, but COVID strikes at the moment when it can inflict the greatest damage to the West: both US and UK in disarray, with irrational leadership, unable to comprehend the magnitude of danger and consequential changes and therefore the need for solidarity.   

Edited by Helen of Annoy
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1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Typical Brexiter eloquence.

I see we can't expect any multisyllable words from you this year. 

It was the perfect reply to your choplogic.

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40 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

I found the most left-wing EU loving point of view possible, to find any criticism of them is unusual and what i posted was said, President Emmanuel Macron of France told leaders the political reaction after the crisis could spell the end of the EU.

You're in denial, you're EU empire dream may be in trouble and all your fantasies may not come true.

Not just Macron, many Europeans are warning about the utmost need for solidarity in this crisis.

They are doing that with intention to make the EU function as it should, not to announce such functions weren't in full power yet so they never will be. 

You're celebrating too early - if the common sense keep prevailing, the EU will keep overcoming every crisis more united.

 

And will you stop expressing your complexes? The EU is not an empire and yours is not coming back. It's 21st century, leave empires to the museums where they belong.  

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1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Aha. It must be me who doesn't understand globalized economy. It couldn't be people so hilariously special they're driving their globalized economy into isolation, hoping their imaginary supernatural idol status will substitute for the agreements they once had as EU member. 

Little Englander, no one will rush into your leeching arms. Game over, learn to contribute.   

 

Speaking of Russians, I'm not afraid of anyone, except my angry self, especially not from my family. I was warning various racist idiots in the West that Russians are not doing you trolling favours because they like you, they're doing them to sabotage you. 

But you want to believe so desperately that there's some imaginary white axis, consisting of Trump, Putin and... Johnson. Oh, my... I almost feel sorry for Putin, he might be this and that, but to remain recorded in history in such company... fitting, but a bit too harsh punishment. 

 

Also, there's no right moment for a pandemic, but COVID strikes at the moment when it can inflict the greatest damage to the West: both US and UK in disarray, with irrational leadership, unable to comprehend the magnitude of danger and consequential changes and therefore the need for solidarity.   

So no attempt by yourself to answer question, how much does financial services attribute to the UK economy. see your alright flapping your gums but no substance.

The UK was a globalised economy before the EU and have remained so.

Funny how little Englanders are championing new and furthering trade deals with countries around the world. with countries the EU doesn't even have deals with. -  including offering the EU a FTA.

see where back to the small minded Croatian mindset.

 

 

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