Sweden defends their unique Covid-19 approach

[Myles]

21 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

I decided to make a thread on this to get more detailed thoughts from people.

Sweden has stood out from the rest of the western world by having a "more relaxed" response to Covid-19. They defend the response below: (Tengnell is the head of their health department)

https://www-cnbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/03/30/sweden-coronavirus-approach-is-very-different-from-the-rest-of-europe.html?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15855790199476&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnbc.com%2F2020%2F03%2F30%2Fsweden-coronavirus-approach-is-very-different-from-the-rest-of-europe.html

 

As many of you know, I personally feel Sweden has had the best approach. Basic precautions measures and self-quarentine, can achieve the same results. 

Aka, protect the at risk while letting everyone else take precautions as they see fit.

It all depends if places follow the "unwritten" rules.    If there are some churches that go one as usual and the virus starts spreading through the elderly parishioners, they may have problems.  

[Helen of Annoy]

16 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

They will do what we did and switch to lock down if it becomes a problem.

Why is the German and Swiz death rates so low? I notice it is low in Scandinavia too. Maybe they have some natural immunity? Or maybe its not quite warm enough there for Corona Virus.

Because they're testing a lot, so their number of COVID-positive is much more realistic than in countries that are not testing enough.

They also have good health care systems, their hospitals are run the way they should be and their capacity wasn't overloaded (like it happened in Italy and Spain, due to late reaction to epidemic, which caused uncontrolled, therefore too fast rise in number of cases, therefore in the number of patients that require intensive care).

COVID statistic must be read while keeping in mind the methods in each country, that are drastically different. 

Some countries (Russia for example) had very low COVID death rate because COVID deaths were counted as pneumonia deaths, some countries (US and UK for example) have unrealistically low number of infections because they weren't testing. 

 

16 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

In my opinion instead of months of problems and the economic damage we should have a 2 week world wide holiday where we pretend the two weeks didnt exist. Shut down everything, declare martial law, no one goes on, and our armed forces can do food drops at our front doors.

Then the virus will be completely eradicated and all new infections will be stopped except those house holds that have an infected person in. They should get a red X on their doors, a guard outside to make sure they dont leave until better, and further food drops until they can be released.

It's true, apparently, that a crisis makes everyone show their true face. 

My country has rather strict anti-epidemic measures but there's absolutely no need to force them at gun point. Knowing that you might kill your parents or grandparents is enough for the majority to be responsible. 

[Wepwawet]

In Germany the incidences of the virus in the ex DDR states is significantly lower than in ex "West Germany". Population density is lower and may be a reason, but it has been pointed out that in the DDR there was compulsory inoculation against TB, therefore the bulk of the population, which will have been born before 1990, have had the jab. I have no idea if this is a thing or not, but the map in this link does show fewer cases in the ex DDR. Covid-19 map for Germany

Edited March 31, 2020 by Wepwawet

[Festina]

6 hours ago, Great Old Man said:

So, They follow the way of nature?

what about old and weak?

Eventually we will all cast off our shells.    Mostly as old people sick.   It’s a fact of life. In about a hundred years everyone living on the planet at this time will have so to speak — moved on. 

How old are you, if I may ask? 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Festina

[Helen of Annoy]

27 minutes ago, Wepwawet said:

In Germany the incidences of the virus in the ex DDR states is significantly lower than in ex "West Germany". Population density is lower and may be a reason, but it has been pointed out that in the DDR there was compulsory inoculation against TB, therefore the bulk of the population, which will have been born before 1990, have had the jab. I have no idea if this is a thing or not, but the map in this link does show fewer cases in the ex DDR. Covid-19 map for Germany

There're possibility the vaccine against TB really does help body fight COVID infection off. Somewhat helps. Australia is looking into that in particular, they've got trial in progress to see if BCG (TB vaccine) can help protect medical personnel from getting infected. 

It's probably not something that will solve COVID problem, unless it's a start from which something that's truly working will be developed.

 

Allow me to think out loud a little:  

My country, Croatia, still has mandatory BCG as it did for decades, but I wouldn't say there's any particular resistance to COVID due to that. It's interesting that our neighbouring Slovenia had more rapid spread of COVID, and BCG isn't mandatory there anymore, but it was mandatory in past decades. So it's not BCG. Just my purely personal opinion would be that the speed of current COVID spreading doesn't depend on BCG, it depends on freaky events where you've got asymptomatic carriers unknowingly infecting larger numbers of people.      

[spartan max2]

6 hours ago, Great Old Man said:

So, They follow the way of nature?

what about old and weak?

No one wants people to die.

It's just about finding the best approach. 

Flatten the curve slows the rate of spread to preserve Medica supplies and hospital capacity. Most likely the same amount of people are expected to get infected, just at a slower rate.

So the question is can we still flatten the curve with other methods or persevere hospital capacity with other strategies.

[OpenMindedSceptic]

5 hours ago, toast said:

Blahblahblah.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think?fbclid=IwAR15pK45Ke72zGwhdkubQ9eochfcjYJfthFRfLHwoN9HeSVYmP1Ahpgdkno

And after you've read that, get in the New England Medical Journal..... Then you'll see how poor the actual testing is. 

[toast]

1 hour ago, Wepwawet said:

In Germany the incidences of the virus in the ex DDR states is significantly lower than in ex "West Germany".

Not all of the 5 new states but Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Sachsen-Anhalt and Brandenburg have a low number of infected people and the reason/s therefore is/are in discussion at the moment: a.) maybe unrecorded cases, b.) because Mecklenburg-Vorpommern started very early with testing so it was able to interrupt the chain of infection, c.) (my guess) as a result of the low ranking in the domestic GRP statistic (#14/#13/#11 out of 16 states in total), resulting in less international travel of the states citizens.

Quote

Population density is lower and may be a reason, but it has been pointed out that in the DDR there was compulsory inoculation against TB, therefore the bulk of the population, which will have been born before 1990, have had the jab.

TB inoculations must be repeated every 10 years and there is no compulsory vaccination against TB here in Germany, on the contrary, its not recommended by the Robert Koch Institute. So I think we can ignore the TB thing.

 

[Sir Smoke aLot]

I would be amased if any nation started to provide the public with the names of those who are diagnosed with this virus, so that others can simply wait it out, determine if they had chance to contract the virus and act accordingly. This privacy protection BS is directly undermining the fight against this virus. Where is privacy anyhow? Majority of people gave it all for free to social networks so what's the point? It is not shameful to be ill but it is shameful to spread it to others. So whom do nations protect? Some absurd laws or should they protect the people?

In china they had that geotagging thingy, well it did work it seems but here we do not have even geotag of sorts so that rest of us can avoid those places, if not carriers.

Sweden is no exception to this rule i guess. Their approach (not shutting down everything) might work as long as people are sane enough to be responsible - if you have virus then do not spread it go take a test, make sure you isolate. Even few irresponsible individuals could move Sweden into start of dark periods of spreading like some other nations have. Eventually this approach might actually make more problems. 

 

[spartan max2]

Interestingly Iceland has also not opted for a Lockdown as of yet. Instead they opted to test and quarentine early and aggressively. 

 

Quote

Iceland has yet to take many of the draconian measures seen across Europe and Asia of state-wide lockdowns, though the island country has banned gatherings of 100 people or more and closed secondary and tertiary schools.

Officials say more restrictive measures haven't been needed because they were better prepared and armed with data to track the virus.

"Testing and contact tracing are one of the key reasons why a lockdown has not been considered necessary up to this point," its Directorate of Health said in a statement to CNN.

"There is also another reason, no less important, we have pursued a very aggressive policy of quarantine for individuals -- suspected to be at risk of having contracted the virus -- for much longer and at a higher scale than most other countries we are aware of."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/01/europe/iceland-testing-coronavirus-intl/index.html

[spartan max2]

Update with Sweden

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

 

https://www-cnbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASDAAQE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnbc.com%2F2020%2F04%2F22%2Fno-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html

 

[acidhead]

2 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Update with Sweden

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks

 

https://www-cnbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASDAAQE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnbc.com%2F2020%2F04%2F22%2Fno-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html

 

Lookout buds, you're about to be flooded with negativity from the doomsday statists

[+Razman]

In Wisconsin , first time they catch you out , they chop off an arm, second time its a leg.  Unless your voting , then its ok

Edited April 23, 2020 by razman

[acidhead]

4 minutes ago, razman said:

In Wisconsin , first time they catch you out , they chop off an arm, second time its a leg. 

In parts of Dearborn, Michigan they go straight for the jugular and take the head in one swift chop

Edited April 23, 2020 by acidhead

[acidhead]

Just now, acidhead said:

 

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by acidhead

[+Razman]

On the first time?

Edited April 23, 2020 by razman

[+Razman]

I think they might install some spike traps in front of Menard's and Walmart as extra measures.

[acidhead]

2 minutes ago, razman said:

I think they might install some spike traps in front of Menard's and Walmart as extra measures.

I'm hearing Home Depot has begun to dig trenches around their stores and filling them with water and crocodiles.

[+Razman]

That way then can just lower the bridge to let certain amount of customers in and out.

[acidhead]

2 minutes ago, razman said:

That way then can just lower the bridge to let certain amount of customers in and out.

Yes it's a great strategy.  Built of course with the finest bridge making products only the Home Depot can supply.

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by acidhead

[+Razman]

[skookum]

8 hours ago, acidhead said:

Lookout buds, you're about to be flooded with negativity from the doomsday statists

I hate these attacks on Sweden and the ridiculous stats.  1 person per 5 miles etc or something.  Yes they do have a big country and smaller population.  They also have cities and don't all live in a log cabin miles from anywhere. 

Sweden have had their own approach that is popular with their residents.  They are not pushing it on the rest of the world or suggesting everyone else is wrong like the British media and muppet show science advisers.  

Whats the time?  Oh yes 8 hours to another bar graph and chart show on the Hancock half hour featuring Whitty.

[Mello_]

Go Sweden! Go Sweden!

[Mello_]

Point of all is that if you are a hit by bus and you end up in hospital. Blood bath. You are dying and die. Yet you get CoViD19 postive. Your cause of death isnt CoViD19.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Mello_

[Helen of Annoy]

12 minutes ago, Mello_ said:

Go Sweden! Go Sweden!

They are going, but not in the right direction. Unless you're really into eugenics.  

What's their bodycount? Over 1,500? Almost 2,000? What's ours (Croatian, that is) - around 40. 

Sweden has approximately 2.5 times larger population, which means they could have around 100 dead, if their lax measures are as good as our strict ones. 

 

Of course, if one doesn't care about older, chronically ill or obese people, sure, let them die. 

I wouldn't ever be that arrogant.