Did John Keel and Jaques Vallee get it right?

[YeshuaFan]

4 minutes ago, Essan said:

You mean Douglas Adams got it right?

"Teasers are usually rich kids with nothing to do. They cruise around looking for planets that haven’t made interstellar contact yet and buzz them.” “Buzz them?” Arthur began to feel that Ford was enjoying making life difficult for him. “Yeah,” said Ford, “they buzz them. They find some isolated spot with very few people around, then land right by some poor unsuspecting soul whom no one’s ever going to believe and then strut up and down in front of him wearing silly antennas on their head and making beep beep noises.”

Best, ost logical explanation there is    Assuming an aliens have ever visited Earth in the past few million years (there being no verifiable evidence they have)

I do not hold to any alien life out there except for us, but do hold to beings here that have interacted with us, both for good and bad!

[YeshuaFan]

1 hour ago, Rlyeh said:

It's a cop out, not to mention logically inconsistent.  The "motive" of this intelligence is contradictory.

Not if one buys into there Being God and an evil being at work here! This where I think they got it wrong, as they seem to assert both were same Being, while I do not!

[YeshuaFan]

1 hour ago, WanderingFool0 said:

well if you think it all comes from a singular source; ie the human imagination, than i find it odd that you are arguing against the phenomena having a singular source or common threads?

What if the beings are using us in order to tailor make how we perceive they are suppossed to be? From fairies and monetrs to now outer space aliens!

[Tatetopa]

52 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

f you've got questions you need to make them quick, because after today I am going on a few weeks break. 

Be safe and come back refreshed and surly.

[YeshuaFan]

1 hour ago, Rlyeh said:

While nothing is truly original I wouldn't claim all human works come from a single source.

These "sources" may share common traits but they all have different information even different motives.  I can't see the "collective" human mind as one united source as Vallee's asserts this "inter-dimensional intelligence" is. 

What if humans have interacted with these being for long time, and threy have appeared to us in the guise that we were expecting based upon how we were at tech and science knowledge wise?

[YeshuaFan]

51 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Certain ideas become accepting memetically within cultures. Ideas such as the yeti/bigfoot/wildman. All are similar. Sea creatures that are heavily exaggerated by ye olde sailors. Then you have alien abduction which can be seen as an memetic evolution of fairy abduction. What was once a demon on someone's chest (probably a hallucination brought on by sleep apnea) becomes shadow people and aliens as well. 

Our brains filter the world around us. Trying to make sense of things, so it does. That coat you saw in the middle of the night becomes a monster. Children are the worst for such things.

What if humanity have been engaging these entities since we have been around, as we need to have stories to try to tell others just what we witnessed?

[Essan]

4 minutes ago, YeshuaFan said:

Not if one buys into there Being God and an evil being at work here! This where I think they got it wrong, as they seem to assert both were same Being, while I do not!

Well there is no evidence of a God*, or an evil being**,  

But one man's God is another's evil being .....   

Nothing to suggest that either travel around in flying saucers

 

* depending on how you define God, there being as many definitions as there are names for it

** see above

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, YeshuaFan said:

What if humanity have been engaging these entities since we have been around, as we need to have stories to try to tell others just what we witnessed?

Where is the real evidence that such entities exist, not just anecdotal? 

[Tatetopa]

3 minutes ago, YeshuaFan said:

Not if one buys into there Being God and an evil being at work here! This where I think they got it wrong, as they seem to assert both were same Being, while I do not!

You are looking for order, dependability, and predictability are you not?  If that is what you are looking for, then you have to stretch one of these theories flexibly enough to fit facts and observations.  Not just  a selected few, but all of them.

Have you considered that the world is not governed by a purposeful intelligence but by a relatively small set of theorems and statistics?  The rules do not change but outcomes can be surprising and uncomfortable.

For some it is easier even to accept unpleasant and bad things if they are imposed by a being with purpose.   If people who die of the plague are wicked it feels safer than  if they are just randomly selected. Why?  Because you can control your fate, if you are not wicked, you will not be punished.

Is a dickster (credit to Piney for an apt description) better than a purposeless randomness?

 

[YeshuaFan]

15 minutes ago, Essan said:

Well there is no evidence of a God*, or an evil being**,  

But one man's God is another's evil being .....   

Nothing to suggest that either travel around in flying saucers

 

* depending on how you define God, there being as many definitions as there are names for it

** see above

God and Satan have been involved with Mankind from early on!

[YeshuaFan]

9 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

You are looking for order, dependability, and predictability are you not?  If that is what you are looking for, then you have to stretch one of these theories flexibly enough to fit facts and observations.  Not just  a selected few, but all of them.

Have you considered that the world is not governed by a purposeful intelligence but by a relatively small set of theorems and statistics?  The rules do not change but outcomes can be surprising and uncomfortable.

For some it is easier even to accept unpleasant and bad things if they are imposed by a being with purpose.   If people who die of the plague are wicked it feels safer than  if they are just randomly selected. Why?  Because you can control your fate, if you are not wicked, you will not be punished.

Is a dickster (credit to Piney for an apt description) better than a purposeless randomness?

 

As Einstein stated"God does not roll dice"

[YeshuaFan]

16 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Where is the real evidence that such entities exist, not just anecdotal? 

What about all pof those reports by Vallee and Keel mentioned, none of that ever happened at all?

[Essan]

1 minute ago, YeshuaFan said:

God and Satan have been involved with Mankind from early on!

Which one is good and which is evil   

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, YeshuaFan said:

God and Satan have been involved with Mankind from early on!

God is an ambiguous term, satan only means adversary or accuser. 

[XenoFish]

Just now, YeshuaFan said:

What about all pof those reports by Vallee and Keel mentioned, none of that ever happened at all?

People have active imaginations and if there is money involved there will be those who shall profit from it. 

[Tatetopa]

9 minutes ago, YeshuaFan said:

As Einstein stated"God does not roll dice"

As Tatetopa stated "There are only dice" 

[Piney]

3 hours ago, YeshuaFan said:

God and Satan have been involved with Mankind from early on!

Satan has only been around since the first Zoroastrian converts to Christianity invented him. 

3 hours ago, YeshuaFan said:

Not if one buys into there Being God and an evil being at work here! This where I think they got it wrong, as they seem to assert both were same Being, while I do not!

I do not assert either being. Just a living spiritual Universe that is balanced. 

[Rlyeh]

10 hours ago, YeshuaFan said:

Hpw so? As something has been interacting with Mankind since very early on, and what was seen as gods would be space men today!

Life isn't governed by some central intelligence, rather they compete for their own survival.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Rlyeh

[Rlyeh]

10 hours ago, YeshuaFan said:

What if humans have interacted with these being for long time, and threy have appeared to us in the guise that we were expecting based upon how we were at tech and science knowledge wise?

So people will see what they believe? Why not get rid of the beings altogether then?

I see no reason to invoke some trickster god when people are quite capable of tricking themselves and each other.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Rlyeh

[Rlyeh]

10 hours ago, YeshuaFan said:

Not if one buys into there Being God and an evil being at work here! This where I think they got it wrong, as they seem to assert both were same Being, while I do not!

Can you get more evil than God?  A blood thirsty slave master.

[Rlyeh]

10 hours ago, YeshuaFan said:

As Einstein stated"God does not roll dice"

He was talking about randomness in quantum physics, he was wrong.

[ChrLzs]

On 4/8/2020 at 7:00 AM, YeshuaFan said:

What about all pof those reports by Vallee and Keel mentioned, none of that ever happened at all?

Lots of it 'happened', in some form or other, but let's cut to the chase here - which one of those reports is the best example of evidenced aliens?  (or whatever you claim they are)

And can you stop wasting the forum's time on one line, contentless handwaves?  If you make a claim, BE SPECIFIC, and also SUPPORT IT.

[YeshuaFan]

11 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

Lots of it 'happened', in some form or other, but let's cut to the chase here - which one of those reports is the best example of evidenced aliens?  (or whatever you claim they are)

And can you stop wasting the forum's time on one line, contentless handwaves?  If you make a claim, BE SPECIFIC, and also SUPPORT IT.

Not claiming aliens, but that they are presenting evidence to us that mankind has been in contact with nn human intelligencies since way back!

[Rlyeh]

2 hours ago, YeshuaFan said:

Not claiming aliens, but that they are presenting evidence to us that mankind has been in contact with nn human intelligencies since way back!

What evidence have they actually presented?  Half the stories Vallee reference has no evidence to start with.

[ChrLzs]

19 hours ago, YeshuaFan said:

Not claiming aliens, but that they are presenting evidence to us that mankind has been in contact with nn human intelligencies since way back!

Answer the dam question.  What is the best evidence in your opinion - the very best evidenced one that points directly at 'nOn human intelligencies'.

And do tell us why you avoided that bit of my post????

Edited April 10, 2020 by ChrLzs