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19_Kilo

Has the Anasazi Mystery been solved?

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19_Kilo

Though being far from an irrefutable answer, many anthropologists now speculate that the two primary factors leading to the seemingly sudden and mysterious disappearance of the Anasazi may have been prolonged drought coupled with ferocious civil warring...

 

https://xue-lin.com/anasazi-ancient-native-american-cultures-what-happened-to-the-anasazi-of-mesa-verde-chaco-canyon

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Sir Wearer of Hats

I personally blame the Daleks.

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Piney

The invasion of the Dine Tribes from the North contributed greatly to it, but Apache and Navajo archaeologists and other Cultural Specialists are in denial about their people migrating down from the North and committing genocide. 

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19_Kilo
9 hours ago, Piney said:

The invasion of the Dine Tribes from the North contributed greatly to it, but Apache and Navajo archaeologists and other Cultural Specialists are in denial about their people migrating down from the North and committing genocide. 

The word "anasazi" is Navajo for "enemy of our ancestors."

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Piney
1 hour ago, Tuco's Gas said:

The word "anasazi" is Navajo for "enemy of our ancestors."

I know, which is why academia no longer uses it.  The proper term now is "Ancestral Puebloans".

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Desertrat56
11 hours ago, Piney said:

The invasion of the Dine Tribes from the North contributed greatly to it, but Apache and Navajo archaeologists and other Cultural Specialists are in denial about their people migrating down from the North and committing genocide. 

If they committed genocide where did the current pueblo people come from.  I know the Ute & Navajo and Apache and Navajo were enemies, and the pueblo people have never liked the Navajo or Apache, the different lifestyles have something to do with that.

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Piney
Just now, Desertrat56 said:

If they committed genocide where did the current pueblo people come from.  I know the Ute & Navajo and Apache and Navajo were enemies, and the pueblo people have never liked the Navajo or Apache, the different lifestyles have something to do with that.

They rebuilt their lives. How many "complete" genocides do you know of except for a few really small groups over long periods of warfare? 

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Desertrat56
53 minutes ago, Piney said:

They rebuilt their lives. How many "complete" genocides do you know of except for a few really small groups over long periods of warfare? 

Well, that could explain the pueblo peoples distrust of Navajo and Apache.  And if it true it would make sense that they deny it now.  Just like the Europeans attempted genocide of a lot of native groups on multiple continents is shoved under the rug.

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jaylemurph
1 hour ago, Piney said:

I know, which is why academia no longer uses it.  The proper term now is "Ancestral Puebloans".

Nicely done!

—Jaylemurph 

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Desertrat56
1 hour ago, Piney said:

I know, which is why academia no longer uses it.  The proper term now is "Ancestral Puebloans".

What it the correct name for Apache (which I was told means Enemy in Navajo or Ute, can't remember which)?

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Piney
2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

What it the correct name for Apache (which I was told means Enemy in Navajo or Ute, can't remember which)?

Apache and Navajo both call themselves "Dine'" with slightly different pronunciations.  

9 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Well, that could explain the pueblo peoples distrust of Navajo and Apache.  And if it true it would make sense that they deny it now.

All the dig reports and data is there. Just not out in the open. The Apache docent at NMAI is a "Oral History right, Archaeology wrong" clown. 

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Desertrat56
5 minutes ago, Piney said:

Apache and Navajo both call themselves "Dine'" with slightly different pronunciations.  

All the dig reports and data is there. Just not out in the open. The Apache docent at NMAI is a "Oral History right, Archaeology wrong" clown. 

I thought I had read something about the oral history of one of the Pueblos indicating that they had moved from some other pueblo but I can't remember where I read it.  Is the "Oral History is right" person saying something crazy like the aliens beamed the "anazazi" up or that they just disappeared or what? 

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Piney
2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I thought I had read something about the oral history of one of the Pueblos indicating that they had moved from some other pueblo but I can't remember where I read it.  Is the "Oral History is right" person saying something crazy like the aliens beamed the "anazazi" up or that they just disappeared or what? 

No, he just insists the Dine were always in the Southwest, the Ancestral Puebloans started the war and writes non-factual essays on Thanksgiving.

The "Alien-Anazazi"  crap came from some fringe lunatic who's name eludes me. 

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Desertrat56
4 minutes ago, Piney said:

No, he just insists the Dine were always in the Southwest, the Ancestral Puebloans started the war and writes non-factual essays on Thanksgiving.

The "Alien-Anazazi"  crap came from some fringe lunatic who's name eludes me. 

I have heard from a Navajo long ago that there is a story passed down about the origin of the people, and that they traveled to the area that some deity gave them as their territory that, using certain mountains as markers.  I don't remember the details. 

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Desertrat56
7 minutes ago, Piney said:

No, he just insists the Dine were always in the Southwest, the Ancestral Puebloans started the war and writes non-factual essays on Thanksgiving.

The "Alien-Anazazi"  crap came from some fringe lunatic who's name eludes me. 

I just remembered that my dad always insisted that the Navajo and the Athabaskans in Alaska are related, and the Navajo are the people who came from the north.  I don't know where he got that but he said that a lot of the language between them is too similar to be coincidence. 

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Windowpane
27 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I just remembered that my dad always insisted that the Navajo and the Athabaskans in Alaska are related ...

he said that a lot of the language between them is too similar to be coincidence. 

Apparently, that is indeed the case (scroll down to "Athabaskan").

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Piney
44 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I have heard from a Navajo long ago that there is a story passed down about the origin of the people, and that they traveled to the area that some deity gave them as their territory that, using certain mountains as markers.  I don't remember the details. 

The Dine' didn't cross the Bering Strait in boats until the Glacial Period was long over and North America was long settled.

Mt. Churchill blew it's stack about 1,200 years ago driving a group of the Dine South where several branches Broke off along the way.

At one time the Dogrib, Slavey, Yellowknife and Chipewyan Dene wanted nothing to do with the Southwestern Dine' because they said "They were the cowards who ran." 

 

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Swede
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I have heard from a Navajo long ago that there is a story passed down about the origin of the people, and that they traveled to the area that some deity gave them as their territory that, using certain mountains as markers.  I don't remember the details. 

This has been a long standing problem that Piney and I have briefly discussed in the past. His information is essentially correct. One of the problems involves the validity of oral histories/traditions in deep time. In this regard, would refer you to the Echo-Hawk/Mason debates. Can supply if you are interested.

The second problem lies with a decision made by the National Park Service (NPS) some years ago. This decision essentially validated the fallacious claims made by the Southwestern Dine' in regards to tenancy upon the contested lands. Politics overriding science.

Furthermore, there are archaeologically informed Navajo individuals belonging to a quite prominent Navajo lineage who have stated, in print, that they do not want their children exposed to the hard archaeological data as it conflicts with their traditional origin "histories". Basically, they do not want their "myths busted".

As Piney can well attest, do not necessarily buy into the "sacred knowledge" often attributed to Amerindian groups.

Edit: Typo.

 

Edited by Swede
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Piney
35 minutes ago, Swede said:

Echo-Hawk

*Lifts left butt cheek. Cracks fart* 

*Spits on the ground* 

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third_eye

And let that be a lesson to all of you... 

don't make @Piney

*Lifts right butt cheek. Blow fart* 

*Spit on the ground, stomp and stamp* 

~

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Piney
2 minutes ago, third_eye said:

And let that be a lesson to all of you... 

don't make @Piney

*Lifts right butt cheek. Blow fart* 

*Spit on the ground, stomp and stamp* 

~

The Echo-Hawks are Amerind Morons........ahem, Mormons.

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third_eye
4 minutes ago, Piney said:

The Echo-Hawks are Amerind Morons........ahem, Mormons.

Now you've done it... Bend over please... 

~

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Sir Wearer of Hats
14 hours ago, Piney said:

 

The "Alien-Anazazi"  crap came from some fringe lunatic who's name eludes me. 

It’s got to be that Wearer of Hats weirdo.

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Swede
Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Piney said:

*Lifts left butt cheek. Cracks fart* 

*Spits on the ground* 

As alluded to in the past, believe you may have your wires crossed on this one. Perhaps actually reading the referenced papers would prove to be of value:

https://learning.hccs.edu/faculty/brett.furth/anth2301/anth-2301-research-paper/native-american-burials/echo-hawk-2000

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2694058?seq=1

Edit: Live references.

Edited by Swede
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Piney
55 minutes ago, Swede said:

As alluded to in the past, believe you may have your wires crossed on this one. Perhaps actually reading the referenced papers would prove to be of value:

Nope, it just reminded me of Larry and how "White and DelightsomeTM " he is. :o

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