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Cultivator of Fa

Why did you become so sceptical to religion?

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spartan max2
6 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Why do so many unbelievers have this compulsive need to affirm their unbelief, over and over and over again? Why do they find fresh opportunities so irresistible? For some here, it's second only to availing themselves of yet another opportunity to dogpile on Walker.

I mean, OP was asking for the opinion of non-belivers lol

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XenoFish

@Hammerclaw

Why do you even care about the opinions of non-believers anyway? 

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Hammerclaw
15 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Why do so many believers wish to indoctrinate non-believers? 

It's integral to their religious tradition.

evangelical
[ˌēvanˈjelək(ə)l]
ADJECTIVE
evangelical (adjective)
  1. of or according to the teaching of the gospel or the Christian religion.
NOUN
evangelical (noun) · evangelicals (plural noun)
  1. a member of the evangelical tradition in the Christian Church.
 
ORIGIN
mid 16th century: via ecclesiastical Latin from ecclesiastical Greek euangelikos, from euangelos (see evangel).

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Hammerclaw
5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

@Hammerclaw

Why do you even care about the opinions of non-believers anyway? 

Purely intellectual.

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Hammerclaw
20 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I mean, OP was asking for the opinion of non-belivers lol

Sort of side-steps my query, don't you think? My question was in general, not about this specific thread. 

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Essan
10 hours ago, Cultivator of Fa said:

I dont say it is wrong to be sceprical, but i wonder what was the reason you become so sceptical to religious/spiritual teaching?

Have you read the different scriptures from all the religions/spiritual paths you have become so sceptical toward? If you have read them, did you spend much time to study why it say what it says? have you used much time to think of how the texts can be used to benefit someones life?

Most religions have texts/scripture that is aimed at promoting a decent, caring, sociable society (albet whilst often smiting those from any other relgion) and preaches many things that, for the time, made life easier and safer.

That may be applaudable (apart from the smiting of unbelievers) but often these teachings, which evolved thousands of years ago, are no longer applicable to modern society.   We have, for example, fridges, soap and better cooking techniques.  Eating pork and keeping your foreskin is perfectly safe today, even in the desert ;)  

So the second level of scepticism is with the adherance of outdated and what are now often quite unnecessary and even illogical doctrines.

The first level of scepticsim arises from the same reason many people do not belive in the Tooth Fairy or that the Easter Bunny delivers chocolate eggs in spring ....   We now know better.   But, if you want to believe in the Sandman, there is no harm so long as you never, ever demand that others believe the same or change their lives to accept your own personaly beliefs.

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Hammerclaw
29 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I consider it a defense and only post my opinion when some one has decided to go on the offensive with their religion or pseudo religion.  And Walker doesn't even have a coherent example, just random stuff that he thinks justifies himself.  He leaves himself wide open for that dogpile.   The compulsion from my perspective is the zealots insisting they know things they don't know and that any one who disagrees with them is wrong. 

Would it it be correct to say you have an axe to grind when it comes to religion? I don't mean to offend, but a lot of atheists here talk about God more frequently than the religious.

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GoldenWolf
36 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Why do so many unbelievers have this compulsive need to affirm their unbelief, over and over and over again? Why do they find fresh opportunities so irresistible? For some here, it's second only to availing themselves of yet another opportunity to dogpile on Walker.

I think the o.p. is a believer.  And this is in the Spirituality vs Skepticism sub-forum.

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spartan max2
7 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Sort of side-steps my query, don't you think? My question was in general, not about this specific thread. 

I guess I was staying on topic then :lol: lol. 

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micahc
36 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Why do so many unbelievers have this compulsive need to affirm their unbelief, over and over and over again? Why do they find fresh opportunities so irresistible? For some here, it's second only to availing themselves of yet another opportunity to dogpile on Walker.

that's not really true. it's believers that crave affirmation from every source.  I could care less what religious people think. I started life as a believer because my mommy and daddy said there was a god, and he loved us but would send us to hell if we didn't kiss his butt many times a day. but he really loves us.  so one day I thought, how ridiculous.  none of this make sense. with a god like that why did you ever need to invent a devil?  

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, GoldenWolf said:

I think the o.p. is a believer.  And this is in the Spirituality vs Skepticism sub-forum.

Yes, that's pretty obvious. I just asked a question.

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Desertrat56
3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Would it it be correct to say you have an axe to grind when it comes to religion? I don't mean to offend, but a lot of atheists here talk about God more frequently than the religious.

I did have an ax to grind, but it isn't actual religion that I have a problem with, it is people insisting their "god" is the only "god" and everyone who disagrees with them is doomed.  I have beloved relatives who are very religious but they do not spend any time trying to pretend they are more than human because of their beliefs or shove their religion down any one else's throat.  They walk their talk and let others do the same finding humanity as the binding force rather than agreement in belief.

It seems like you would understand the difference since you seem to be one who does not insist everyone agree with you.

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Stubbly_Dooright
2 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

SoS SuvwI' quv, p'tach!

:D

Who knew that Google translate spoke Klin'zai?

vISov, isn't 'e' Dun!

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

I did have an ax to grind, but it isn't actual religion that I have a problem with, it is people insisting their "god" is the only "god" and everyone who disagrees with them is doomed.  I have beloved relatives who are very religious but they do not spend any time trying to pretend they are more than human because of their beliefs or shove their religion down any one else's throat.  They walk their talk and let others do the same finding humanity as the binding force rather than agreement in belief.

It seems like you would understand the difference since you seem to be one who does not insist everyone agree with you.

I never learned anything from people who agreed with me, to paraphrase Robert Heinlein, yet a-gain. You can force-feed religion to people, but you can't make them swallow an iota of belief.

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Stubbly_Dooright
22 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:
54 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I consider it a defense and only post my opinion when some one has decided to go on the offensive with their religion or pseudo religion.  And Walker doesn't even have a coherent example, just random stuff that he thinks justifies himself.  He leaves himself wide open for that dogpile.   The compulsion from my perspective is the zealots insisting they know things they don't know and that any one who disagrees with them is wrong. 

Would it it be correct to say you have an axe to grind when it comes to religion? I don't mean to offend, but a lot of atheists here talk about God more frequently than the religious.

On that note, of the assumed behavior of an ax to grind. Granted, nothing is excusable for any kind of behavior negative towards anyone else. But, if I am to put my two cents in, and as somebody who’s been on the end of being harassed for not being part of the orthodox religions many times over, I would think it’s understandable that yes there’s axes to grind.

like I said, I’m not excusing it. But since the proselytizing  is constant online and offline, I would think it’s an understandable defense mechanism right back. 

and also, since, religious behaviors have seem to be until recently, defend it against while unbelievers tend to get a blind eye to defending them, it’s still an unfair situation and mostly unfair to the unbelievers. 

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Stubbly_Dooright
16 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:
22 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I did have an ax to grind, but it isn't actual religion that I have a problem with, it is people insisting their "god" is the only "god" and everyone who disagrees with them is doomed.  I have beloved relatives who are very religious but they do not spend any time trying to pretend they are more than human because of their beliefs or shove their religion down any one else's throat.  They walk their talk and let others do the same finding humanity as the binding force rather than agreement in belief.

It seems like you would understand the difference since you seem to be one who does not insist everyone agree with you.

I never learned anything from people who agreed with me, to paraphrase Robert Heinlein, yet a-gain. You can force-feed religion to people, but you can't make them swallow an iota of belief.

Do you let it dribble down their chin then?

i’m kind of being humorous there sorry.

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

On that note, of the assumed behavior of an ax to grind. Granted, nothing is excusable for any kind of behavior negative towards anyone else. But, if I am to put my two cents in, and as somebody who’s been on the end of being harassed for not being part of the orthodox religions many times over, I would think it’s understandable that yes there’s axes to grind.

like I said, I’m not excusing it. But since the proselytizing  is constant online and offline, I would think it’s an understandable defense mechanism right back. 

and also, since, religious behaviors have seem to be until recently, defend it against while unbelievers tend to get a blind eye to defending them, it’s still an unfair situation and mostly unfair to the unbelievers. 

I see an equal amount of victim-playing on both sides of the debate. One poster goes on the attack, suffers a viscous riposte and then whines about being persecuted.  It's a recurring theme here on UM. 

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Stubbly_Dooright
2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:
7 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

On that note, of the assumed behavior of an ax to grind. Granted, nothing is excusable for any kind of behavior negative towards anyone else. But, if I am to put my two cents in, and as somebody who’s been on the end of being harassed for not being part of the orthodox religions many times over, I would think it’s understandable that yes there’s axes to grind.

like I said, I’m not excusing it. But since the proselytizing  is constant online and offline, I would think it’s an understandable defense mechanism right back. 

and also, since, religious behaviors have seem to be until recently, defend it against while unbelievers tend to get a blind eye to defending them, it’s still an unfair situation and mostly unfair to the unbelievers. 

I see an equal amount of victim-playing on both sides of the debate. One poster goes on the attack, suffers a viscous riposte and then whines about being persecuted.  It's a recurring theme here on UM. 

I agree with you. I see that as well. But my pulse was talking about not just here on this board but I know boards on the Internet and in real life. I guess I speak from experience, that those outside my family growing up treated me as inferior. That they had the law on their side.(which is not true)

I think most recently, there are atheist and unbelievers are comfortable and allowed to speak up for themselves. if I can describe it from my feelings of it, it’s like coming out of prison. There is a lot of scarring I feel it has occurred, and I think this is a feeling of having some justice and putting some in their place.

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and then
11 hours ago, Cultivator of Fa said:

I dont say it is wrong to be sceprical, but i wonder what was the reason you become so sceptical to religious/spiritual teaching?

Have you read the different scriptures from all the religions/spiritual paths you have become so sceptical toward? If you have read them, did you spend much time to study why it say what it says? have you used much time to think of how the texts can be used to benefit someones life?

You should be more specific here, IMO.  It isn't a hatred for all things "spiritual", it's just an absolute rejection of the so-called "Abrahamic" religions.  It's actually pretty simple to understand.  Humans have trouble bending the knee to anyone who can't force them to do so.  They reject anything or anyone that tells them what they must do.  It's as simple as that.  

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rashore

Thread cleaned. Folks, stop it with the toxic behavior and insulting commentary. Keep to the rules you all agreed to, found here: https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/guidelines/

Also keep in mind the guidelines for this area of UM. 

'Spirituality vs Skepticism' board guidelines

Please always respect the beliefs of other members - the bashing of specific religions, countries, races or belief systems is strictly disallowed. Several of the topics in this section cover some sensitive areas and it is important to respect the views of others; this means no flaming, no flamebaiting, no trolling and no personal attacks. We must also ask that members do not use the forums to promote or 'preach' their personal spiritual beliefs to others.

 

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Hammerclaw
38 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I agree with you. I see that as well. But my pulse was talking about not just here on this board but I know boards on the Internet and in real life. I guess I speak from experience, that those outside my family growing up treated me as inferior. That they had the law on their side.(which is not true)

I think most recently, there are atheist and unbelievers are comfortable and allowed to speak up for themselves. if I can describe it from my feelings of it, it’s like coming out of prison. There is a lot of scarring I feel it has occurred, and I think this is a feeling of having some justice and putting some in their place.

There is only one place, the one we limit ourselves to. More often than not, the walls that hem us in are built by our own hands, brick by brick. With an effort of will, however, we can surmount them.(No, not that Will!}

d4831865bbaf1d41d2b65c7428f72719.jpg

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GoldenWolf
41 minutes ago, and then said:

They reject anything or anyone that tells them what they must do.  It's as simple as that.

I like the idea of life, liberty and happiness.  Not dying, subjugation and suffering unto an almighty master.

Edited by GoldenWolf
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Stubbly_Dooright
8 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:
48 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I agree with you. I see that as well. But my pulse was talking about not just here on this board but I know boards on the Internet and in real life. I guess I speak from experience, that those outside my family growing up treated me as inferior. That they had the law on their side.(which is not true)

I think most recently, there are atheist and unbelievers are comfortable and allowed to speak up for themselves. if I can describe it from my feelings of it, it’s like coming out of prison. There is a lot of scarring I feel it has occurred, and I think this is a feeling of having some justice and putting some in their place.

There is only one place, the one we limit ourselves to. More often than not, the walls that hem us in are built by our own hands, brick by brick. With an effort of will, however, we can surmount them.(No, not that Will!}

I find this very interesting, but we don’t build walls (by our own hands) for nothing. 

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XenoFish
49 minutes ago, and then said:

it's just an absolute rejection of the so-called "Abrahamic" religions.  It's actually pretty simple to understand.  Humans have trouble bending the knee to anyone who can't force them to do so.  They reject anything or anyone that tells them what they must do.  It's as simple as that.  

It's this idea of all or nothing that goes along with the middle eastern war god. Why should anyone worship an entity that will throw them into a place of eternal torment, just because they can on a whim. Even if that person is idealistically perfect. And yes it has to do with the supposed authority. Even when this god admits there are others gods and he is jealous. Which if it exist, means that it isn't the god but a wannabe god. 

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Rlyeh
1 hour ago, and then said:

You should be more specific here, IMO.  It isn't a hatred for all things "spiritual", it's just an absolute rejection of the so-called "Abrahamic" religions.

The ones that defend slavery and death to apostates.

 

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