Why 4 divided by 0 equals 1

[zep73]

22 minutes ago, clare256 said:

Just ask Siri "what is 4 divided by 0?"

My calculator says: You cannot divide with 0

[+Desertrat56]

26 minutes ago, clare256 said:

Just ask Siri "what is 4 divided by 0?"

 Siri's answer is "That's not nice, are you trying to scramble my computational cortex?"    undefined.

@trevor borocz johnson You need to learn real math if you want to have discussions about math, Don't depend on faulty computer programs to do your math for you.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Desertrat56

[moonman]

14 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Well. Let's give Trevor some credit, he does keep things interesting around here.

I don't know about that, complete lunatic nonsense in every one of his posts is getting boring and predictable.

What would be interesting is if he actually made sense even one time. That would blow my mind.

Edited April 23, 2020 by moonman

[trevor borocz johnson]

I guess if you think about it like 4/.1 is 40 and 4/.01 is 400, then as you increase towards infinity this way. However you aren't dividing by a percentage you are dividing by an infinite nothing and I've always heard that equals 1.

[XenoFish]

31 minutes ago, moonman said:

I don't know about that, complete lunatic nonsense in every one of his posts is getting boring and predictable.

What would be interesting is if he actually made sense even one time. That would blow my mind.

It's better than some of the threads around here. 

[+Desertrat56]

1 hour ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

I guess if you think about it like 4/.1 is 40 and 4/.01 is 400, then as you increase towards infinity this way. However you aren't dividing by a percentage you are dividing by an infinite nothing and I've always heard that equals 1.

Some one explained it to you incorrectly then.  You can't divide by 0 and 0 does not signify infinity, it signifies nothing.

[Golden Duck]

9 hours ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

I guess if you think about it like 4/.1 is 40 and 4/.01 is 400, then as you increase towards infinity this way. However you aren't dividing by a percentage you are dividing by an infinite nothing and I've always heard that equals 1.

Nope not 1.

If you are going to say x/0 = ∞ then x/∞ = 0.  That's not great a great proof.

It's better to use limits an see that for f(x) = 1/x as x approaches infinity f(x) approaches zero.

 

[bison]

My problem with this  whole 4/0=1 business is that changing the definition of the number 4 in the middle of an equation is bound to create trouble. Its four ones on the left hand side, and one group of four units on the right. This goes nowhere. If we keep the numbers consistent throughout, it would read  4/0=4. which is the same as saying that dividing by zero has no practical effect on the four. 

This seems to contradict the seemingly well-supported assertion that 4/0= infinity, which is interesting. My problem with a result of infinity is that in physics this indicates a breakdown of the theory, in its relation to reality. Could that be the case here?

No matter how small a fraction is used to divide four, it will never actually produce the result of infinity. 

[ChrLzs]

On 4/22/2020 at 7:07 PM, acute said:

@trevor borocz johnson  I can't help you with the metaphysical stuff, only the mathematics.

Any positive number divided by zero equals infinity,  and any negative number divided by zero equals negative infinity.

Likewise... Any positive or negative number divided by positive or negative infinity equals zero.

While that seems almost sorta logically correct, I have to nitpick a little.  Dividing by zero is undefined, and it is in fact disallowed in maths.  Even infinity zeros cannot equal 4...

If it was allowed, you could break axioms with some quite simple equations, eg you can 'prove' 1=2 in about 5 lines if you sneakily slip in a (disallowed) divide-by-zero.  That's why maths does not allow it - the premise makes no sense, so anything that followed that premise would also be wrong..

 

[Golden Duck]

3 hours ago, bison said:

My problem with this  whole 4/0=1 business is that changing the definition of the number 4 in the middle of an equation is bound to create trouble. Its four ones on the left hand side, and one group of four units on the right. This goes nowhere. If we keep the numbers consistent throughout, it would read  4/0=4. which is the same as saying that dividing by zero has no practical effect on the four. 

This seems to contradict the seemingly well-supported assertion that 4/0= infinity, which is interesting. My problem with a result of infinity is that in physics this indicates a breakdown of the theory, in its relation to reality. Could that be the case here?

No matter how small a fraction is used to divide four, it will never actually produce the result of infinity. 

Infinity is probably not useful in a lot of contexts.  If you say dived a an insurance premium by the number of claims made - what for, I not sure - what would the answer be.  The useful answer would be zero.  You are probably deriving that numerator is zero.  But you are still defining what 0/0 means in a business metric.

In probability you can make statements from this point to infinity the probability is...

 

[Coil]

16 hours ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

I guess if you think about it like 4/.1 is 40 and 4/.01 is 400, then as you increase towards infinity this way. However you aren't dividing by a percentage you are dividing by an infinite nothing and I've always heard that equals 1.

 

Zero is not a number and it is higher than any number; in other words, zero is a part of the infinite God Absolute, therefore it is impossible to take some number and divide it into something that exceeds any number.

From Non-being comes being, from the Non-material comes the material, from Non-number comes the number, quality and quantity.

But even the sum of all the numbers will still not approach the bottomless No-thing.

From a religious point of view, if a person wants to comprehend Nothingness, he should temporarily become nothing by casting aside his personality and mind. And then you will become the great Unconscious from which all consciousness-being comes.And above him, only the levels of God. And you will become free from all the laws of the universe as a cheater mage.

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Coil

[XenoFish]

https://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/dividing-by-zero.html

[XenoFish]

The only time zero means anything to me is when I use X0 Y0 as a starting point.

G0 X0 Y0 T1M6

M3 S1230 F2.5

G0 H1 Z0.2 M8

G1 Z-.5

G0 Z0.2 M9

GO Y4. T1M6

M2

There I just drilled a hole. 

[Ozymandias]

On 4/22/2020 at 3:43 AM, trevor borocz johnson said:

Why is 4 divided by 0 = 1?  The answer came to me a couple weeks ago. Any number divided by 0 or nothing leaves one thing left in existence which is the quanity up top you are dividing by. So in the case of 4 divided by zero you are left with one thin, the 4. If you multiply 4 by 0 then the four infinitely dissipates into nothingness. One is the conscious mind as it defines something and zero defines the subconscious or nothingness, empty space. The left side of your brain is your conscious and the right is your subconscious. When they are at balance you may feel sleepy. When one side is bothered you can feel it in your head.

Division by zero is undefined, and for a very good reason. Any attempt to assign a value, such as 4/0 = 1 as suggested by the OP, results in an absurdity. For example, we all agree that 4/4 = 1. So, if we allow 4/0 = 1 to also be true then that implies that 4 = 1, which is nuts!

4/0 = 4 is equally crazy. We agree that 4/1 = 4. So again, if we accept that 4/0 = 4 that also implies that 4 = 1. Again, this is absurd! 

Golden Duck gave you a lovely graph of all the values possible when you divide 4 by any number (except zero), i.e. the graph of 4/x= y (or more correctly y = f(x) = 4/x). Tatetopa gave an explanation of it but is wrong in his last statement that 4/0 = infinity. It is not. As the divisor of 4 approaches 0 from the positive side, the value of y = 4/x approaches plus infinity. As the value of x approaches 0 from the negative side, the value of y = 4/x approaches negative infinity. At 0 the value is undefines: it cannot be both positive and negative infinity simultaneously. Another absurdity.

Division by zero cannot be defined, and so it isn't. 

 

[+Desertrat56]

10 hours ago, bison said:

My problem with this  whole 4/0=1 business is that changing the definition of the number 4 in the middle of an equation is bound to create trouble. Its four ones on the left hand side, and one group of four units on the right. This goes nowhere. If we keep the numbers consistent throughout, it would read  4/0=4. which is the same as saying that dividing by zero has no practical effect on the four. 

This seems to contradict the seemingly well-supported assertion that 4/0= infinity, which is interesting. My problem with a result of infinity is that in physics this indicates a breakdown of the theory, in its relation to reality. Could that be the case here?

No matter how small a fraction is used to divide four, it will never actually produce the result of infinity. 

But that is not how it works.  the 4 divided by 0 = 1 is a mistake. 

[Jaded1]

7 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Division by zero is undefined, and for a very good reason. Any attempt to assign a value, such as 4/0 = 1 as suggested by the OP, results in an absurdity. For example, we all agree that 4/4 = 1. So, if we allow 4/0 = 1 to also be true then that implies that 4 = 1, which is nuts!

4/0 = 4 is equally crazy. We agree that 4/1 = 4. So again, if we accept that 4/0 = 4 that also implies that 4 = 1. Again, this is absurd! 

Golden Duck gave you a lovely graph of all the values possible when you divide 4 by any number (except zero), i.e. the graph of 4/x= y (or more correctly y = f(x) = 4/x). Tatetopa gave an explanation of it but is wrong in his last statement that 4/0 = infinity. It is not. As the divisor of 4 approaches 0 from the positive side, the value of y = 4/x approaches plus infinity. As the value of x approaches 0 from the negative side, the value of y = 4/x approaches negative infinity. At 0 the value is undefines: it cannot be both positive and negative infinity simultaneously. Another absurdity.

Division by zero cannot be defined, and so it isn't. 

 

Absolutely this.

I'm only just seeing this now. When I was doing my maths degree (many moons ago) I saw someone almost getting beaten to death by one of the lecturers for insinuating that 3/0 was infinity (I may be exaggerating a little (or maybe hyperbolising would be more fitting as it's a maths thread)).

As Ozymandias correctly points out, 4 (or any number you can think of) divided by zero is undefined. Once again, Ozymandias correctly points out the reason why too. Looking at the function f(x) = y/x and letting x gradually approach zero we get 2 scenarios:

1. When x approaches zero from the positive side, y/x approaches + infinity. In symbols it looks like this: as x --> 0⁺, f(x) --> + ∞

Ex. say we use f(x) = 4/x and get x to approach 0 from the positive side: 4/1 = 4, 4/0.1 = 40, 4/0.01 = 400. 4/0.001 = 4000, 4/0.0001 = 40000, etc. You can obviously see that as x gets smaller (i.e. approaches 0), f(x) gets larger (i.e. approaches infinity).

2. When x approaches zero from the negative side, y/x approaches - infinity. In symbols it looks like this: as x --> 0^-, f(x) --> - ∞

Ex. say we use f(x) = 4/x and get x to approach 0 from the negative side: 4/-1 = -4, 4/-0.1 = -40, 4/-0.01 = -400. 4/-0.001 = -4000, 4/-0.0001 = -40000, etc. You can obviously see that as x approaches 0, f(x) gets larger in the negative sense (for the want of a better phrase), (i.e. approaches minus infinity).

So, the reason 4/x is undefined is because it approaches - infinity when x approaches 0 from the negative direction and + infinity when x approaches 0 from the positive direction. When x=0 the function f(x) = 4/x ceases to be continuous (as we say mathematically).

Edited April 24, 2020 by Jaded1

[trevor borocz johnson]

16 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

Division by zero cannot be defined, and so it isn't.

Here's a popular thing I can do that will raise my likes to posts rating that I see other people do https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/math/a24162/dividing-by-zero-explainer/

[Ozymandias]

6 hours ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

Here's a popular thing I can do that will raise my likes to posts rating that I see other people do https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/math/a24162/dividing-by-zero-explainer/

Unfortunately, Trevor, dividing by zero never actually happens in calculus. This article is based on the following Mathologer video by Burkard Polster 

All of the mathematical expressions in the picture above are essentially equal to 0/0. If 0/0 = x, and you cannot divide by zero, what does x equal? Polster shows that the solution to this equation is that x equals every conceivable number, which he says is absurd.

Calculus is about finding derivatives of functions like f(x) = y = 4/x. What the Mathologer video demonstrates is that calculus is based on the concept of a quotient between vanishing infinitesimals that arise in an algebraic expression when a limit is taken. In a sense the possible values of x that satisfy x = 0/0 are being 'limited' because of the particular geometric (Cartesian) context that defines their value. However, and this is the fundamentally important point, at no time does actual division by zero ever occur in calculus. What happens is that, as the limit is taken, the infinitesimals go to zero leaving a residual expression for the derivative. This is easily demonstrated. See this link for example:   https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+differentiate+x^2+from+first+principles&docid=608032627019546985&mid=B55D2D168DFAB0A01C9AB55D2D168DFAB0A01C9A&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

[ChrLzs]

9 hours ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

Here's a popular thing I can do that will raise my likes to posts rating that I see other people do https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/math/a24162/dividing-by-zero-explainer/

Nope.  In order to improve your very low respect and lack of credibility, you simply need to stop posting rubbish.  And to achieve that, perhaps do some maths and science remedial classes.

[GlitterRose]

What are children being taught these days?

One of the first things you learn about division is that you can't divide by zero. 

It makes no sense to divide by zero because you would be dividing by nothing. 

It concerns me when I see posts this dense.

[+Desertrat56]

19 minutes ago, GlitterRose said:

What are children being taught these days?

One of the first things you learn about division is that you can't divide by zero. 

It makes no sense to divide by zero because you would be dividing by nothing. 

It concerns me when I see posts this dense.

The dumbing down of the 1st world countries is rampant and now very obvious.

[trevor borocz johnson]

9 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

Nope.  In order to improve your very low respect and lack of credibility, you simply need to stop posting rubbish.  And to achieve that, perhaps do some maths and science remedial classes.

Do you think people can cover up a happiness with secretiveness without being evil like for example when one thinks a certain thought common to that person that they associate with a good feeling and sometimes refer back to it to feel well. Color changing cars stored in a soup can kind of thing?

[+Desertrat56]

17 hours ago, trevor borocz johnson said:

Do you think people can cover up a happiness with secretiveness without being evil like for example when one thinks a certain thought common to that person that they associate with a good feeling and sometimes refer back to it to feel well. Color changing cars stored in a soup can kind of thing?

Now that mixed salad of words seems like an A.I. from 2002, when AI were still just putting random words together using sentence rules they had been programmed with.  Random noun, random verb, random adjective, etc.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Desertrat56