Athanasius Kircher and Plato's Atlantis

[RoofGardener]

10 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Anyway no one will ever find Atlantis because I hid it away years ago and I'm not telling where.

< searches @Noteverythingisaconspiracy's wardrobe..... > 

AHA.... found it ! 

Gosh.. its a bit dusty ? And you've let the canals dry out ! 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

37 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

< searches @Noteverythingisaconspiracy's wardrobe..... > 

AHA.... found it ! 

Gosh.. its a bit dusty ? And you've let the canals dry out ! 

We did find a Lion in there though, but when we asked what it was doing it said “what do you think I am, some sort of joke?!”

Edited April 23, 2020 by Sir Wearer of Hats

[RoofGardener]

EGADS.. I've found a lamp-post. And - it appears - a forest ? 

[Essan]

So that's where all the snow we never had this year (again) went 

[Polar]

I understand that Plato's record of Atlantis could be wrong. But nonetheless, Plato posited that an island was situated in front of Gibraltar. He stated also that it faced the Iberian peninsula and must have been pretty close to Africa (since it was a very large island). Likewise, Poseidon being considered the shaker of the earth and having been attributed the island of Atlantis as his lot, would mean that somehow the region where Atlantis would be situated, was geothermic active, as is attested by the descriptions of Plato, in Critias:

Quote

To the interior island he conveyed under the earth springs of water hot and cold

The region in front of Gibraltar where Plato's Atlantis would have been located has coincidentally the largest gravitational anomaly on earth. The MAR, in that region  seems like it has been "blown out", for lack of a better word, perhaps an uplift would be a more accurate geologic term. I am still trying to understand whether Macaronesia (Açores, Madeira, Canary islands and Cabo Verde) geologic uplift has anything to do with what the geode (computed by GOCE satellite data) is showing:

 

 

What information regarding the "geology" in Plato's Atlantis? The northern MAR is itself a very active region (considering the NAIP - North Atlantic Igneous Province), nevertheless, the region right in front of Gibraltar, grosso modo, is extremely anomalous, and completely different from the rest of the MAR. See (yellow) links to Newfoundland island and the Cabo Verde archipelago from that MAR region. It appears to be marking a transition from more anomalous regions (red) to less anomalous regions (yellow, green, blue).

 

[Harte]

11 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Greenland when was it was part of something bigger

 

Quote

Memories light the corners of my mind
Misty water-colored memories of the way we were

Harte

[Piney]

11 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Greenland when was it was part of something bigger

That has to be rotated a bit. The Siberian Craton/ Traps formed on the Icelandic hotspot. 

[Polar]

On 4/22/2020 at 2:57 PM, papageorge1 said:

@Polar   Can you give us a short layman's synopsis of what you are trying to suggest? I am interested in the subject of Atlantis.

Hello,

Thanks for your question. I am interested in Atlantis too and i think the geoid can bring an important light to the Atlantic spot where Plato posits Atlantis demise to have occurred, in the Azores/Gibraltar region:

The “Azores Geosyndrome” and Plate Tectonics: Research History, Synthesis, and Unsolved Puzzles

The Azores volcanic archipelago, the Azores Plateau (AP) and the Azores triple junction (ATJ) between the Eurasia, North America and Nubia plates occupy the summit of a regional feature we refer to as the ‘Azores Geosyndrome’. Included are anomalies in crustal thickness, rock composition, basement depth, plate boundary morphology, seismicity, gravity and geoid, and upper mantle seismic velocity structure, and there are many similarities between the Azores and Iceland geosyndromes. [...]

 

 

Quote

 According to Gauss, who first described it, it is the "mathematical figure of the Earth", a smooth but irregular surface whose shape results from the uneven distribution of mass within and on the surface of Earth. It can be known only through extensive gravitational measurements and calculations. Despite being an important concept for almost 200 years in the history of geodesy and geophysics, it has been defined to high precision only since advances in satellite geodesy in the late 20th century.

Look at the mathematical figure of the earth, as Gauss put it, at the spot where the Azores triple junction and micro plate are located. We can also observe that a wedged like figure is protruding from the background

What is/was there that the geoid show that MAR region so blood red (most strong gravitational anomaly)? In the face of what you surely know regarding Atlantis, from Plato, i ask, does it not show a gravitational red "island" clearly facing Gibraltar? Just recently i came to know that there are plenty similarities between Azores and Iceland:

Quote

A COMPARATIVE STUDY ON STRONG GROUND MOTION IN TWO VOLCANIC ENVIRONMENTS: AZORES AND ICELAND

Carlos S. OLIVEIRA1 , Ragnar SIGBJÖRNSSON2 , Simon ÓLAFSSON3

SUMMARY

[...] The main findings are that there are significant similarities between the tectonic environments of the Azores and Iceland. Furthermore, the similarities found in seismicity are statistically significant. The attenuation is characterised by rapid decay with increasing distance and high acceleration in the near source area. It is found that the same ground motion estimation models can be applied on the Azores and in Iceland.

https://www.iitk.ac.in/nicee/wcee/article/13_2369.pdf

I propose that Greenland waas in fact further south in the Atlantic (mainly where the continental red "blob" is located) but mentioning it here would be the death of this interesting thread. So therefore, i am really rather interested in discussing what is imprinted in the oceanic floor of that part of the MAR and what does it mean exactly with regards to geology and Plato's Atlantis.

Earthquakes can change the earth's gravity, as you might know:

Quote

ESA's GOCE satellite has revealed that the devastating Japanese earthquake of 2011 left its mark in Earth's gravity - yet another example of this extraordinary mission surpassing its original scope.

GOCE mapped Earth's gravity with unrivalled precision for over four years, but nobody really expected the data to show changes over time.

Now, careful analysis shows the effects of the 9.0 earthquake that struck east of Japan's Honshu Island on 11 March 2011 are clearly visible in GOCE's gravity data.

link

If Plato's sizable earthquake was responsible for Atlantis disappearance (assuming the story was true). I ask, could it have been imprinted in the gravitational information revealed to us by the geode? Thanks again for asking. 

https://www.g-red.eu/geoid/geoidViewer.html

Edited April 23, 2020 by Polar
added image and credit

[papageorge1]

35 minutes ago, Polar said:

Hello,

Thanks for your question. I am interested in Atlantis too and i think the geoid can bring an important light to the Atlantic spot where Plato posits Atlantis demise to have occurred, in the Azores/Gibraltar region:

The “Azores Geosyndrome” and Plate Tectonics: Research History, Synthesis, and Unsolved Puzzles

The Azores volcanic archipelago, the Azores Plateau (AP) and the Azores triple junction (ATJ) between the Eurasia, North America and Nubia plates occupy the summit of a regional feature we refer to as the ‘Azores Geosyndrome’. Included are anomalies in crustal thickness, rock composition, basement depth, plate boundary morphology, seismicity, gravity and geoid, and upper mantle seismic velocity structure, and there are many similarities between the Azores and Iceland geosyndromes. [...]

 

 

Look at the mathematical figure of the earth, as Gauss put it, at the spot where the Azores triple junction and micro plate are located. We can also observe that a wedged like figure is protruding from the background

What is/was there that the geoid show that MAR region so blood red (most strong gravitational anomaly)? In the face of what you surely know regarding Atlantis, from Plato, i ask, does it not show a gravitational red "island" clearly facing Gibraltar? Just recently i came to know that there are plenty similarities between Azores and Iceland:

https://www.iitk.ac.in/nicee/wcee/article/13_2369.pdf

I propose that Greenland waas in fact further south in the Atlantic (mainly where the continental red "blob" is located) but mentioning it here would be the death of this interesting thread. So therefore, i am really rather interested in discussing what is imprinted in the oceanic floor of that part of the MAR and what does it mean exactly with regards to geology and Plato's Atlantis.

Earthquakes can change the earth's gravity, as you might know:

link

If Plato's sizable earthquake was responsible for Atlantis disappearance (assuming the story was true). I ask, could it have been imprinted in the gravitational information revealed to us by the geode? Thanks again for asking. 

Well that’s a lot to digest but thank you for clarifying a little of my understanding. You at least have the rare quality on this forum of being polite.

Another consideration is that a man-caused crystal energy catastrophe may have been involved (per some sources claiming psychic insight). This involves things unknown to current geology and adds a wildcard to the analysis.

Even conventional geology recognizes many areas of the globe that are now under water  we’re once above water.

[jaylemurph]

Aww, Mario finally found someone to be his disciple. Their first principle: caecus caecum ducat.

--Jaylemurph

[Piney]

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Another consideration is that a man-caused crystal energy catastrophe may have been involved (per some sources claiming psychic insight).

Sources? 

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

This involves things unknown to current geology and adds a wildcard to the analysis.

There's elements unknown to current geology? 

7 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

Aww, Mario finally found someone to be his disciple.

Adorable. 

[stereologist]

4 hours ago, Polar said:

 

I propose that Greenland waas in fact further south in the Atlantic (mainly where the continental red "blob" is located) but mentioning it here would be the death of this interesting thread. So therefore, i am really rather interested in discussing what is imprinted in the oceanic floor of that part of the MAR and what does it mean exactly with regards to geology and Plato's Atlantis.

Earthquakes can change the earth's gravity, as you might know:

link

If Plato's sizable earthquake was responsible for Atlantis disappearance (assuming the story was true). I ask, could it have been imprinted in the gravitational information revealed to us by the geode? Thanks again for asking. 

https://www.g-red.eu/geoid/geoidViewer.html

You propose that Greenland was further south in the Atlantic. How do you reconcile that with:

1. the paleomagnetic data that shows it could not have been further south
2. the sedimentology of the Atlantic basin which shows it could not have been further south
3. what you call continental red "blob" is not continental

The MAR tells us that Greenland has always been on the west side of the MAR as the Atlantic ocean opened up. Sediments of the ocean floor tell us that the ocean floor is relatively young as far as the Earth is concerned, but in terms of the age of the Atlantic we see that the older sea bottom is towards the continents and away form the MAR where new crust  is formed. You should look into the following to see how you are misunderstanding the geoid.

https://academic.oup.com/gji/article/166/2/553/562527

You are misunderstanding the geoid for land. The fact that it bulges in an area could be due to less dense land underneath that portion of the ocean or a lack of land in that part of the ocean. It's less gravity, not that there is anything under the water.

[Piney]

5 minutes ago, stereologist said:

1. what you call continental red "blob" is not continental

Just former volcanic material (mostly granites) from millions of years ago like this big red spot under the Pine Barrens. 

[jmccr8]

On 4/22/2020 at 2:10 PM, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Anyway no one will ever find Atlantis because I hid it away years ago and I'm not telling where.

Hi Noteverythingisaconspiracy

Are you sure

jmccr8

[Polar]

On 4/23/2020 at 9:34 PM, stereologist said:

You propose that Greenland was further south in the Atlantic. How do you reconcile that with:

1. the paleomagnetic data that shows it could not have been further south
2. the sedimentology of the Atlantic basin which shows it could not have been further south
3. what you call continental red "blob" is not continental

The MAR tells us that Greenland has always been on the west side of the MAR as the Atlantic ocean opened up. Sediments of the ocean floor tell us that the ocean floor is relatively young as far as the Earth is concerned, but in terms of the age of the Atlantic we see that the older sea bottom is towards the continents and away form the MAR where new crust  is formed. You should look into the following to see how you are misunderstanding the geoid.

https://academic.oup.com/gji/article/166/2/553/562527

You are misunderstanding the geoid for land. The fact that it bulges in an area could be due to less dense land underneath that portion of the ocean or a lack of land in that part of the ocean. It's less gravity, not that there is anything under the water.

 

I meant a red blob of "continental" proportions. What should sedimentology of the Atlantic basin show instead?

There must be a reason for the gravitational field to show the way it does. A reason connected with Atlantis demise for sure, considering everything. There are many "signs" that appear to mean something within Plato's Atlantis framework (it is obvious that a large island as Atlantis would not have disappeared without leaving any noticeable trace). Greenland seems to have traveled on the west side of the MAR, as you put it. But notice that the anomalies in the north Atlantic reach the eastern side as well. Panthalassa's ancient ocean floor has completely vanished, i wonder if this could have happened in part, in the north Atlantic.

Quote

Panthalassa, also known as the Panthalassic Ocean or Panthalassan Ocean (from Greek πᾶν "all" and θάλασσα "sea"),^[1] was the superocean that surrounded the supercontinent Pangaea. During the Paleozoic–Mesozoic transition c. 250 Ma it occupied almost 70% of Earth's surface. Its ocean floor has completely disappeared because of the continuous subduction along the continental margins on its circumference.^[2] Panthalassa is also referred to as the Paleo-Pacific ("old Pacific") or Proto-Pacific because the Pacific Ocean developed from its centre in the Mesozoic to the present.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthalassa

 

 

[Polar]

Quote

Greenland Plate

The Greenland Plate is a supposed tectonic plate bounded to the west by Nares Strait, a probable transform fault; on the southwest by the Ungava transform underlying Davis Strait; on the southeast by the Mid-Atlantic Ridge;^[1] and the northeast by the Gakkel Ridge, with its northwest border still being explored.^[2] The Greenland craton is made up of some of the oldest rocks on Earth. The Isua greenstone belt in southwestern Greenland contains the oldest known rocks on Earth dated at 3.7–3.8 billion years old.^[3]

The Precambrian basement of Greenland formed an integral part of the Laurentian Shield that is at the core of the North American continent. Greenland was formed in two rifting stages from the main body of North America. The first, during the Cretaceous period, formed Baffin Bay. Baffin Bay is the northwestern extension and terminus of the North Atlantic-Labrador Sea rift system that started forming 140 million years ago in the Early Cretaceous epoch.^[4] The Labrador Sea started opening 69 million years ago^[5] during the Maastrichtian age but seafloor spreading appears to have ceased by the Oligocene epoch, 30–35 million years ago.^[6] Correlations between tectonic units in Canada and Greenland have been proposed;^[7] however, the pre-spreading fit of Greenland to Canada is still not accurately known.^[8]

Since the closure of the North Atlantic–Labrador Sea rift, Greenland has moved roughly in conjunction with North America; thus, there are questions as to whether the Greenland Plate should still be considered a separate plate at all.^[9][10] The area between Greenland and Baffin Island is, however, seismically very active, being the location of the epicenter of many earthquakes including a 7.3-magnitude earthquake in 1933. As of 2009, scientists have been unable to correlate the seismicity with particular geological structures or geophysical anomalies. It has been suggested that seismicity in the region is related to the stresses associated with post-glacial rebound.^[11][12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_Plate

 

[Hanslune]

1 hour ago, Polar said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_Plate

 

................and none of this supports, nay it disagrees, with your idea that Greenland (an in your idea 'Atlantis') was across from the straits of Gibraltar. Then moved several thousand kilometers to its present position in in a magical way.

Mario why do keep repeating the same failed idea? It's getting very boring.

[cormac mac airt]

7 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

................and none of this supports, nay it disagrees, with your idea that Greenland (an in your idea 'Atlantis') was across from the straits of Gibraltar. Then moved several thousand kilometers to its present position in in a magical way.

Mario why do keep repeating the same failed idea? It's getting very boring.

It’s simultaneously sad as well as hilarious that he ignores his own quote, the relevant part being: 

Quote

 Greenland was formed in two rifting stages from the main body of North America. The first, during the Cretaceous period, formed Baffin Bay. Baffin Bay is the northwestern extension and terminus of the North Atlantic-Labrador Sea rift system that started forming 140 million years ago in the Early Cretaceous epoch.^[4] The Labrador Sea started opening 69 million years ago^[5] during the Maastrichtian age but seafloor spreading appears to have ceased by the Oligocene epoch, 30–35 million years ago.^[6]

That in itself invalidates his fantasy. 
 

cormac

[Hanslune]

2 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

It’s simultaneously sad as well as hilarious that he ignores his own quote, the relevant part being: 

That in itself invalidates his fantasy. 
 

cormac

Yes it does but I thought it might be too much to ask him to actually read it. Boy you sure are a big meanie. I mean throwing all that sciency stuff at the poor devil.

[cormac mac airt]

6 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

Yes it does but I thought it might be too much to ask him to actually read it. Boy you sure are a big meanie. I mean throwing all that sciency stuff at the poor devil.

It’s a terrible job but somebody’s got to do it. 

cormac

[Hanslune]

1 hour ago, cormac mac airt said:

It’s a terrible job but somebody’s got to do it. 

cormac

Well we rename you Lord Cormac mac airt Hayagriva

[jaylemurph]

2 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Mario why do keep repeating the same failed idea? It's getting very boring.

More to the point, why does he not understand that each individual lie he tells (and each subsequent appearance he makes here after swearing he’ll never come back — and it’s what, the seventh or eighth time now? — makes him a liar) has destroyed what little credibility he left himself after he himself demonstrated his massive lack of general competence?

—Jaylemurph 

Edited April 26, 2020 by jaylemurph

[Polar]

Lack general competence, credibility, but lies? Is this how you get rid of people? @moderator... Jaylemurph just did it again, called me a liar...

You abruptly cut me when i was going to show my new Kircher/geoid thing, (where is the lie in this?):

 

I am just drawing the attention to the fact that Geoids of the north Atlantic region show immense (no lie) anomaly in front of Gibraltar. Is this not true? 

 

 

[Hanslune]

30 minutes ago, Polar said:

Lack general competence, credibility, but lies? Is this how you get rid of people? @moderator... Jaylemurph just did it again, called me a liar...

You abruptly cut me when i was going to show my new Kircher/geoid thing, (where is the lie in this?):

 

I am just drawing the attention to the fact that Geoids of the north Atlantic region show immense (no lie) anomaly in front of Gibraltar. Is this not true? 

 

 

Yes you are showing a Geoid and below it is a made up image/map  of 'Atlantis'. Are you now saying Atlantis was there and abandoning your long held idea that Greenland is Atlantis?

Okay, so explain again how this colorful image with the fake map supports your idea that Atlantis was in the Atlantic next to Gibraltar then moved to where Greenland now is?

[cormac mac airt]

1 hour ago, Polar said:

Lack general competence, credibility, but lies? Is this how you get rid of people? @moderator... Jaylemurph just did it again, called me a liar...

You abruptly cut me when i was going to show my new Kircher/geoid thing, (where is the lie in this?):

 

I am just drawing the attention to the fact that Geoids of the north Atlantic region show immense (no lie) anomaly in front of Gibraltar. Is this not true? 

 

 

Where is the lie? The lie is in posting a fictional map below the geoid as if the former is relevant, it isn’t. 
 

cormac