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If Pyramids not tombs where are the pharaohs?


Thanos5150

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1 hour ago, Frank_Hoenedge said:

There was also a claim that the 4th Pyramid had been found:

 

There is no 4th Pyramid, there is no "breakthrough". Mr Third_Eye_Seeks has taken a piece of old trivia and ineptly just made stuff up to get people to look at his tweets.   

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23 hours ago, Thanos5150 said:

....

What is it. What does it do. Does it lead somewhere and/or have a functional purpose. Some have suggested it is a relieving chamber which would not be without precedent as noted over 2yrs ago HERE.

There is a series of corbel vaulted "relieving corridors" in Meidum: 

6-59f711b801.jpg

 It is very possible this what the voids are in G1 and also that most if not all of the major pyramids have similar features.

Above the gabled ceiling in the burial chamber of G3 is a single "relieving chamber":

tomb.jpg

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Can't say for sure if this is what the new passage is, hopefully it will lead to more interesting things to come, but unfortunately I think it likely just a relieving chamber. 

What is interesting though is we note the new passage uses a gabled and not corbel roof, contrasted at length throughout this thread: The Satellite Pyramid of Dahshur. This would be the first use of a gabled roof in Egyptian stone construction, and other than the Grand Gallery, the beginning of a total replacement of the corbel vault system. On the surface it appears this is an innovation of the builder of G1 but you can't employ this system without a clear understanding of its engineering principles meaning someone either came up with this new invention and worked it all out on paper with some test constructions first, or saw it used somewhere else.    

Edited by Thanos5150
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On 3/3/2023 at 8:28 AM, Thanos5150 said:

....

What is it. What does it do. Does it lead somewhere and/or have a functional purpose. Some have suggested it is a relieving chamber which would not be without precedent as noted over 2yrs ago HERE.

There is a series of corbel vaulted "relieving corridors" in Meidum: 

6-59f711b801.jpg

 It is very possible this what the voids are in G1 and also that most if not all of the major pyramids have similar features.

Above the gabled ceiling in the burial chamber of G3 is a single "relieving chamber":

tomb.jpg

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Can't say for sure if this is what the new passage is, hopefully it will lead to more interesting things to come, but unfortunately I think it likely just a relieving chamber. 

What is interesting though is we note the new passage uses a gabled and not corbel roof, contrasted at length throughout this thread: The Satellite Pyramid of Dahshur. This would be the first use of a gabled roof in Egyptian stone construction, and other than the Grand Gallery, the beginning of a total replacement of the corbel vault system. On the surface it appears this is an innovation of the builder of G1 but you can't employ this system without a clear understanding of its engineering principles meaning someone either came up with this new invention and worked it all out on paper with some test constructions first, or saw it used somewhere else.    

Another interesting pyramid feature not part of the main chamber system is the "chimney" of the BP:

The-lower-system_Q640.jpg

 

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Never seen one up close. I have my own beliefs about this. 

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  • 9 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...

 Not really related to the topic of the OP, but interesting nonetheless. The beautiful 18th Dynasty painted tomb of Sennefer:

tomb-of-sennefer-brian-brake.jpg

0bdd841b92c58b5e1dfa34c95af37c2e.jpg

MORE

Here is a 3D guided tour of the tomb of Rameses VI, Valley of the Kings. Photos.

One of the more curious things about these VoK tombs in particular, which if you go there you really get a sense of it, is how crazy deep some of these tombs are to have made all of these paintings, let alone carve out the halls and chambers, without some unique form of lighting. This would apply to many other places as well, but the VoK examples are quite extreme. I have suggested some form of fresnel lens.  

In lieu of electric light, I have previously suggested the use of Fresnel lenses:
fresnel-lenses2.png&ehk=L%2BUgInEB1JNkjC
[www.michiganlights.com]
[partsolutions.com]

Fresnel lenses were also used in lanterns:
dbf484277ef221545e10460bd80d9d26.jpg

I've seen a few lighthouse Fresnel lenses in person and they are magnificent to behold. Mesmerizing. Up until the 20th century they were lit by oil lamps. Diffusers were used for smoke, but regardless one would want to use the most smokeless oil available. Point is, a Fresnel lens allows a smaller light source to be exponentially brighter and can be made of glass or polished metal. Though ingenious, the principle of prismatic refraction to amplify a light source would not be beyond ancient peoples who could have used simpler designs of basic materials to achieve the same effect which would also significantly reduce if not eliminate soot.

 

Edited by Thanos5150
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Another alternative for generating light is by utilizing ionization. One approach to accomplishing this is by rubbing large quartz crystals together or by placing smaller quartz stones in a translucent jar and shaking them. In my opinion, it is highly probable that the dynastic Egyptians were familiar with such quartz properties, given their extensive engagement in drilling, cutting, and trimming Aswan granite for thousands of years, which consist of at least 40 percent quartz. It seems implausible that they would have been oblivious to such properties of quartz unless every individual involved in the quarries for millennia was physically and literally blind. 
 

Konstantin

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3 hours ago, kborissov said:

Another alternative for generating light is by utilizing ionization. One approach to accomplishing this is by rubbing large quartz crystals together or by placing smaller quartz stones in a translucent jar and shaking them. In my opinion, it is highly probable that the dynastic Egyptians were familiar with such quartz properties, given their extensive engagement in drilling, cutting, and trimming Aswan granite for thousands of years, which consist of at least 40 percent quartz. It seems implausible that they would have been oblivious to such properties of quartz unless every individual involved in the quarries for millennia was physically and literally blind. 

....Or they could just burn a candle and refract the light. 

Regardless, using crystals, or any material, to create triboluminescence to functionally illuminate a space would be quite silly and completely ineffective. Its not like you just rub them together and magically there is light-you have to keep rubbing them together nonstop. For one. And secondly the light it gives is hardly consistent, powerful, and diffused enough to be practical in any meaningful way the least of which spending hours on end painting on walls  

Making Cold Light From Crystals

Edited by Thanos5150
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The video is quite good… yes, not much light from that shaking as I thought.

Konstantin 

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4 hours ago, kborissov said:

Another alternative for generating light is by utilizing ionization. One approach to accomplishing this is by rubbing large quartz crystals together or by placing smaller quartz stones in a translucent jar and shaking them. 

Have you actually TRIED this?

Yes, I'm highly skeptical of it (and there aren't any quartz mines or good quartz crystals near Giza https://www.mindat.org/locentry-991348.html)

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On 1/25/2024 at 1:57 PM, kborissov said:

The video is quite good… yes, not much light from that shaking as I thought.

You know if you hit the quote button it quotes what the other poster wrote so that others and the original poster can know who you are talking to.

But how could you think this in the first place though...? If this were a thing that all one had to do was shake crystals and it would illuminate a space at all let alone for any length of time surely this would be a thing, no? And its not just the amount of light it gives that is the issue but also the need to continuously shake it to produce it. Sorry, but this is a tough look:

"In my opinion, it is highly probable that the dynastic Egyptians were familiar with such quartz properties, given their extensive engagement in drilling, cutting, and trimming Aswan granite for thousands of years, which consist of at least 40 percent quartz. It seems implausible that they would have been oblivious to such properties of quartz unless every individual involved in the quarries for millennia was physically and literally blind." 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Thanos5150 said:

"In my opinion, it is highly probable that the dynastic Egyptians were familiar with such quartz properties, given their extensive engagement in drilling, cutting, and trimming Aswan granite for thousands of years, which consist of at least 40 percent quartz. It seems implausible that they would have been oblivious to such properties of quartz unless every individual involved in the quarries for millennia was physically and literally blind." 

Whoever wrote that seems to to be confused on the difference between mining and quarrying. Granite quarrying is almost always open pit and therefore in broad daylight unless they had a night shift which would be somewhat hazardous. (although that could go towards explaining some of the overcuts) Same for masonry operations. Triboluminescence would scarcely be discernible under well-lit conditions.

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4 hours ago, Thanos5150 said:

You know if you hit the quote button it quotes what the other poster wrote so that others and the original poster can know who you are talking to.

But how could you think this in the first place though...? If this were a thing that all one had to do was shake crystals and it would illuminate a space at all let alone for any length of time surely this would be a thing, no? And its not just the amount of light it gives that is the issue but also the need to continuously shake it to produce it. Sorry, but this is a tough look:

"In my opinion, it is highly probable that the dynastic Egyptians were familiar with such quartz properties, given their extensive engagement in drilling, cutting, and trimming Aswan granite for thousands of years, which consist of at least 40 percent quartz. It seems implausible that they would have been oblivious to such properties of quartz unless every individual involved in the quarries for millennia was physically and literally blind." 

 

 

The Egyptians were certainly pragmatic. If rubbing or shaking quartz crystals could produce greater light with less effort (although I understand your point that it’s unlikely), they would undoubtedly have chosen it over burning oil.

In my post, I aimed to raise a more significant point. It is challenging to envision that throughout millennia of working with Aswan granite, no one intentionally or accidentally had a chance to rub larger gray-colored crystals from the Aswan slab to observe the light. This raises the question: where would this light have led the Egyptians in their thought process? Would they have associated such light with 'heka' magic, or perhaps attributed it to an aspect of their sun religion, given the similarity between the color of this light and that of the sun? According to Budge and others, the Egyptians held the belief that a sun god resided in a stone and could be evoked. Could the presence of such light have strengthened their belief that the sun god indeed dwelled in a stone and that this god could indeed be evoked?

Konstantin

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2 hours ago, kborissov said:

The Egyptians were certainly pragmatic. If rubbing or shaking quartz crystals could produce greater light with less effort (although I understand your point that it’s unlikely), they would undoubtedly have chosen it over burning oil.

In my post, I aimed to raise a more significant point. It is challenging to envision that throughout millennia of working with Aswan granite, no one intentionally or accidentally had a chance to rub larger gray-colored crystals from the Aswan slab to observe the light. This raises the question: where would this light have led the Egyptians in their thought process? Would they have associated such light with 'heka' magic, or perhaps attributed it to an aspect of their sun religion, given the similarity between the color of this light and that of the sun? According to Budge and others, the Egyptians held the belief that a sun god resided in a stone and could be evoked. Could the presence of such light have strengthened their belief that the sun god indeed dwelled in a stone and that this god could indeed be evoked?

Konstantin

...have you seen the size of the quartz crystals in the Aswan granite?  They're small.  Most of them are around the size of the letter "e" on your computer screen (and possibly smaller.)

The people working the quarries were prisoners and prisoners of war.  They were not well fed and they were kept working under difficult conditions.  Nobody had any time for experiments... and frankly they wouldn't have seen the small luminescence since they were working under the very bright and hot Egyptian sun.  Most stonecarving work was done in workshops with plenty of access to sunlight and the small luminescence from tiny crystals wouldn't have been seen.

And the idea that the "a sun god resided in the stone"... I'd need to see Budge's quote on that one.   I suspect you may have misremembered what was said.

Edited by Kenemet
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12 hours ago, Kenemet said:

The people working the quarries were prisoners and prisoners of war.  They were not well fed and they were kept working under difficult conditions.  Nobody had any time for experiments... and frankly they wouldn't have seen the small luminescence since they were working under the very bright and hot Egyptian sun.  Most stonecarving work was done in workshops with plenty of access to sunlight and the small luminescence from tiny crystals wouldn't have been seen.

The people pushing ideas like this are often the same ones who think the AE structures, especially the pyramids, took advantage of piezoelectricity for all sorts of reasons.  Interstellar communication, weather control, powering funicular railways or just for pumping water if the Nile didn't flood that particular year.

All these grandiose daydreams fail at the most fundamental level for the same reason that triboluminescence is utterly impractical as a source of prolonged illumination.  Namely the dull old principle of conservation of energy, and the fact that you only get a transfer of energy by putting in some hard graft.

You can't get more useful energy (light or electrical) out than the work you put in.  The amount of work done is equal to the average force applied times the distance moved.  In both examples I'm considering (triboluminescence and piezoelectricity) the forces may be large but the distances are tiny, resulting in rather small energy transfers.

I've tried to articulate this many times in other threads.  The same people keep coming back with variations on impossible themes.  I guess my explanations aren't good enough.

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19 hours ago, kborissov said:

The Egyptians were certainly pragmatic. If rubbing or shaking quartz crystals could produce greater light with less effort (although I understand your point that it’s unlikely), they would undoubtedly have chosen it over burning oil.

If this were a thing-who wouldn't? Kind of part of the whole "common sense" thing. Once again, the lost knowledge of the ancients ladies and gentlemen-banging two rocks together. Who knew. And come on now- its not "unlikely" it's actually for all intents and purposes impossible. And by the by, the Romans also quarried extensively at Aswan-only the magic LC DE figured this one out? Not to mention anyone else ever seeing the DE perform these miracles of stone? 

Quote

In my post, I aimed to raise a more significant point.

Aimed where...? I don't see it in your post, but something more significant than the DE violently rubbing rocks together to magically make enough light to, for example, paint for hours and hours in otherwise complete darkness? 

Quote

It is challenging to envision that throughout millennia of working with Aswan granite, no one intentionally or accidentally had a chance to rub larger gray-colored crystals from the Aswan slab to observe the light.

If you really thought these things it would only take a few minutes to know yourself. I have seen a lot of Aswan granite. I may or may not have pieces of it from Giza sitting on my desk. Yes it has crystals in it. "Larger" means the size of an eraser head compared to a BB. Without putting too fine a point on it, what you are suggesting is just silly and shouldn't have to be explained. 

Quote

This raises the question: where would this light have led the Egyptians in their thought process? Would they have associated such light with 'heka' magic, or perhaps attributed it to an aspect of their sun religion, given the similarity between the color of this light and that of the sun? According to Budge and others, the Egyptians held the belief that a sun god resided in a stone and could be evoked. Could the presence of such light have strengthened their belief that the sun god indeed dwelled in a stone and that this god could indeed be evoked?

Uh boy. There it is. You seem like a nice fellow Konstantin, but, yeah. This is nonsense on several levels and a moot point regardless. 

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Getting this fascinating thread back on track… 

I’m intrigued by Yoshimura’s hypothesis as to the location of Khufu’s tomb. It certainly seems as if the surrounding monuments “respect” the area he’s pinpointed, and it lends credence to Herodotus and Diodorus’ writings concerning him not being buried in G1. 

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1 hour ago, Thanos5150 said:

And by the by, the Romans also quarried extensively at Aswan-only the magic LC DE figured this one out?

DE, We Bring Good Things To Light.

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22 hours ago, Antigonos said:

Getting this fascinating thread back on track… 

I’m intrigued by Yoshimura’s hypothesis as to the location of Khufu’s tomb. It certainly seems as if the surrounding monuments “respect” the area he’s pinpointed, and it lends credence to Herodotus and Diodorus’ writings concerning him not being buried in G1. 

Discussed HERE. If true, I would think all 3 Giza pharaohs were buried there if not more. 

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20 hours ago, Thanos5150 said:

Discussed HERE. If true, I would think all 3 Giza pharaohs were buried there if not more. 

Thanks, I missed that the first time around. I remember you discussing it on GHMB.

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2 hours ago, Antigonos said:

Very cool. I wonder why it took so long for permission to be granted for the excavation. 

Par for the course. 

It will be very interesting either which way. So much energy is spent by arm chair debunkers railing against any notion pyramids are not tombs for all the wrong reasons, yet to read along in this thread we can see for ourselves this is not what is shown by the overwhelming majority of the evidence, and at least with not every pyramid, not even the consensus of Egyptology nor has it ever been. Yoshimura is very well respected Egyptologist who thinks Khufu is not buried in G1 and is going to excavate an area he believes might be the location. I am sure he has thought about it but if so, again,  this may be where other pharaohs are buried as well. No matter what there is "something" to be found there so this will be cool no matter what.     

Edited by Thanos5150
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