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The Truman show

Trump's in trouble: GOP alarms over November

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Manwon Lender
27 minutes ago, bee said:

 

I made my point (that I still stand by).... and I have read your responses...

:tu:

 

Thank you Bee, for at least acknowledging that you are aware of my comments, I respect you and your right to your opinion.

Like I said above I truly hope you and your family are well and continue to be well.

Peace

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DarkHunter

Just figured it should be pointed out that America is the third most populated country on the planet and when looked at as percentages instead of numbers the American response has not been that bad compared to the rest of the world.

Using the John Hopkins coronavirus tracker you get 963,379 cases for America (0.29% of population), 226,629 for Spain (0.48% of population), 197,675 for Italy (0.33%), 162,220 for France (0.24%), 157,495 for Germany (0.19%), 154,032 for UK (0.23%), and 46,895 for Canada (0.12%).  

There are a lot of variables in all of this including amount of tests done, reliability of the tests, population density, and more variables which I'm too lazy to think of and list them all.  But overall America's response really hasnt been any worse than any other nation's response.  

Interestingly New York city accounts for about 2.56% of America's population but accounts for about 30% of all of America's coronavirus cases and about 31% of all American deaths from coronavirus.  Real question is why are cities like New York city, New Orleans, Albany, Boston, and Philadelphia having such large outbreaks while other cities like LA, Phoenix, Seattle and Dallas are doing significantly better proportionally of handling the outbreak.  Some of it can be explained by climate or population density but not all of it.

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and then
3 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

Trump sounds very accommodating. 

Yeah!  How DARE HE try to get along... 

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and then
21 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

what do you honestly think is going to happen as these businesses around the country reopen?

I expect the numbers of infected/hospitalized/dying to all increase somewhat.  It will depend on how well the guidelines are followed.  I am not a denier of the science of epidemiology.  The statistics are pretty basic for how infections progress.  The question I have that no one on the Left are touching, is how long can this economy stay shut down without causing more death and mayhem than the virus?  I believe it's a legitimate concern and it's apparent to me that the Dems are the side that feel they'll benefit from more chaos.  If Trump's team manages to get even a somewhat vitalized economy back on track by the fall, they know he stands a very good chance of surviving and getting a second term.  I expect their hysteria to become unhinged as we move into the summer and fall.  Just wait and watch.  

The one fact that cannot be disputed is that the virus probably isn't going to dramatically change in the short term and the risks of reopening the economy will be the same no matter WHEN we try it.  Do you have an opinion about when we could attempt it with less risk?  I assume you accept as reality the folly of trying to just keep everything shut down but if you don't I'd be interested to know how we survive that plan.

Peace

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Hankenhunter
10 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

That's a new one on me, what do you have/

 

That's not your problem

What was he convicted for?

That's not Trumps fault and democracy will decide what type of politics you have in Canada.

Don't you have your own conferences? Trump doesn't expect Canadians to follow the American advice, follow the Canadian one and you'll be fine.

Everything I said does affect Canadians to a degree. I completely disagree with you on American politics having no affect on Canada. Your being purposely disingenuous to troll me. You're right about Canadian democracy deciding what type of politics we will have, but it's not much of a democracy if we go back to the good old days of everyone for themselves, and religious organizations dictating Canadian politics. Kinda like Trump's Evangelicals calling the shots. Without them, he never would have been elected. Now a minority is forcing their values on the majority. If you cant see this as a dispassionate observer, that's not my problem, it's yours.

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hetrodoxly
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Everything I said does affect Canadians to a degree. I completely disagree with you on American politics having no affect on Canada. Your being purposely disingenuous to troll me. You're right about Canadian democracy deciding what type of politics we will have, but it's not much of a democracy if we go back to the good old days of everyone for themselves, and religious organizations dictating Canadian politics. Kinda like Trump's Evangelicals calling the shots. Without them, he never would have been elected. Now a minority is forcing their values on the majority. If you cant see this as a dispassionate observer, that's not my problem, it's yours.

I'm not trolling, you responded to my post making a lot of allegations about Trump, i just asked you to substantiate some of them, as i said in the post you replied to, Trump is blamed for everything  and anything it's just become a constant buzz in the background i imagine most people have just shut their ears to it, it's like calling someone a nazi it has no meaning anymore, i don't know if theirs any intelligent impartial reporters in Canada or the USA, there isn't any anymore on UK TV that's why so many people don't trust them, a said reporter known for their balanced view on both sides writing a truthful account of Trumps time in office won't be heard because of the constant noise, which was the point of my original post.

Edited by hetrodoxly

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odas
18 hours ago, and then said:

Yeah!  How DARE HE try to get along... 

Hahaha good one AT. I asked my children the same question when they were babies and had their tamper tantrumps and folded when I proved to be the boss.

But don't worry, Donald Joke Trump will grow up some day and I am sure he will be a man of his word.

Now THAT is sarcasm (just to make sure to explain if Trump supporters are reading this).

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Tatetopa
On 4/26/2020 at 11:41 AM, bee said:

yes I'm afraid I do...

clearly you are not one of them... but I do think they are out there... people involved in politics and the Democrat Campaign who do not want Trump to have any success in combating the virus and getting the economy back on track..

because that will help him win another term and they do not want that.... no matter what

Bee, I don't think anybody is stopping President Trump from having  success with handling the virus or with the economy.  He has the medical experts, FMEA, CDC, and the military resources at his disposal with whatever he has in the national stockpile.  He can call the shots.

As for the economy, he jut got handed 2.2 trillion dollars that he can parcel out as he chooses, no oversight. Hopefully that is enough for a businessman to get things running again.

Speaking of the  economy, and definitely NOT President Trump's fault, private citizens and corporations have just come off six+ years of growth into the best economy ever some would say.  Everybody got a massive tax cut a couple of years back.

And yet very few corporations and very few individuals have saved enough over the good years to last even two months without squealing for aid.  Whatever happened to putting a little aside for a rainy day?  What happened to all that money?

I'm just a stupid old man, but at least I listened when my dad taught me to save 10% of my earnings and live on 90%.

 

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Tatetopa
On 4/26/2020 at 4:24 PM, DarkHunter said:

Real question is why are cities like New York city, New Orleans, Albany, Boston, and Philadelphia having such large outbreaks while other cities like LA, Phoenix, Seattle and Dallas are doing significantly better proportionally of handling the outbreak.

Some of those cities are international ports of entry which may account for a portion of the concentration.  They were some of the first places hit, so our preparedness was minimal.  Seems that New York's outbreak can be traced to Europe rather than China.  Maybe a lot of those travelers fleeing back home were already infected.  I don't know the numbers but Seattle seemed to have an early struggle with the spread too.

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Tatetopa
On 4/26/2020 at 5:35 PM, and then said:

expect the numbers of infected/hospitalized/dying to all increase somewhat.  It will depend on how well the guidelines are followed.  I am not a denier of the science of epidemiology.  The statistics are pretty basic for how infections progress.  The question I have that no one on the Left are touching, is how long can this economy stay shut down without causing more death and mayhem than the virus? 

That is an excellent question.  Sounds like the east and west coast states have a plan to begin with opening  critical areas of manufacturing and construction first and doing it at a fast as will not swamp hospital intensive care   (It is a little strange to me since my son who works in and my wife who is office manager for a construction company  haven't missed any work yet.) Then come second and third tier businesses.  Rational people do not think this will go away, and may come back with a vengeance in the fall.  Some businesses will never come back, some will take a very long time.  My experience with 9/11 was that the airline industry was down for about 2 years before people wanted to start flying again.  It may be the similar this time.

Only my opinion here, some people may die, but we should try to do as much as we can to save them.  What that means to me is that there be medical staff, an intensive care bed and respirator for the few that need them.  Everybody won't make it, but at least we owe every citizen our best shot.  It would help if people were smart and careful, but you can't expect that of everybody. 

My niece forwarded a picture from her work of a grocery cart with latex gloves, wipes, and two masks discarded in it.  Now the store personnel have to pick it up and discard it.  That seems irresponsible and un-neighborly.

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kobolds
Posted (edited)

Only idiot will vote for him again . 

he shown people how incompetent he is, from wall, north Korea, Europe , Canada , china, Iran and now pandemic . 

 

all he is good at is blaming people, making excuse and talk nonsense 

Edited by kobolds
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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, kobolds said:

Only idiot will vote for him again . 

he shown people how incompetent he is, from wall, north Korea, Europe , Canada , china, Iran and now pandemic . 

 

all he is good at is blaming people, making excuse and talk nonsense 

For what its worth, Mark Twain said, "It is easier to deceive a person than to convince a person they have been deceived.

You see incompetence, his supporters see brilliance.

You see blaming, his supporters see fighting back.

Go figure.

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RoofGardener

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but what the heck. 

President Trump issued guidelines on shutdown to all the state governors. Eight states did not implement them; they are Arkansas, Iowa, North and South Dakota, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Utah and Wyoming. Some of them DID shut down schools, and  requested that people practice social distancing, but in some of them, pubs and restaurants etc remained open. 

And here's the strange thing. They have the same infection - and morbidity rates - as the rest of the USA. 

Go figure ? 

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hetrodoxly
1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

his supporters see brilliance.

Do you really believe that, what they see is the alternative.

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but what the heck. 

President Trump issued guidelines on shutdown to all the state governors. Eight states did not implement them; they are Arkansas, Iowa, North and South Dakota, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Utah and Wyoming. Some of them DID shut down schools, and  requested that people practice social distancing, but in some of them, pubs and restaurants etc remained open. 

And here's the strange thing. They have the same infection - and morbidity rates - as the rest of the USA. 

Go figure ? 

What's your saying is true but other facts much be applied to what your saying above. It's not really as strange as it may appear to you, the Virus isn't equally effecting all parts of the United States. Some states have explosive pockets of infection while others have little to none. This is due to the distribution of the states population and how much travel from other states and localities move through those areas. The states you outline above have populations that are more isolated and spread over greater distances. Most of the those states are not nearly as actively traveled as other states across the country and they have more rural population. So with this said person to person spread of the Virus in the areas above would be greatly minimized if not completely non-existent. 

With this considered its not really a strange thing at all.

Peace

Edited by Manwon Lender
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hetrodoxly
4 hours ago, kobolds said:

Only idiot will vote for him again . 

he shown people how incompetent he is, from wall, north Korea, Europe , Canada , china, Iran and now pandemic . 

 

all he is good at is blaming people, making excuse and talk nonsense 

i'm not an American and maybe don't get the news you're getting could you tell me what he's done wrong with each of these countries.

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Manwon Lender
1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

For what its worth, Mark Twain said, "It is easier to deceive a person than to convince a person they have been deceived.

You see incompetence, his supporters see brilliance.

You see blaming, his supporters see fighting back.

Go figure.

What your saying is certainly true, I mean some peoples political views are so strongly ingrained that they can not objectively even discuss the subject. Either you agree with them or they will take offense to any comment that does support their position and party dogma. It's really kind sad because they are so brain washed they will find any excuse or even openly lie to make things fit the picture they have conceived in their own mind.

In my opinion when you lose the ability to see both the bad and good in any situation you have actually stopped thinking. When this happens a persons ability reason in any logical manner is out the widow. Here on the forum there are many members who fall into this category and I have found that it better to not answer any post they make to you. Because the result is always exactly the same, and nothing of value can be learned from the conversation.

Peace

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kobolds
Posted (edited)
On 4/28/2020 at 3:04 PM, Tatetopa said:

For what its worth, Mark Twain said, "It is easier to deceive a person than to convince a person they have been deceived.

You see incompetence, his supporters see brilliance.

You see blaming, his supporters see fighting back.

Go figure.

We living in world of idiocracy  and this time not film but reality 

Are you citizen of  IDIOCRACY REPUBLIC

Edited by kobolds
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Raptor Witness
On 4/28/2020 at 3:04 AM, Tatetopa said:

For what its worth, Mark Twain said, "It is easier to deceive a person than to convince a person they have been deceived.

You see incompetence, his supporters see brilliance.

You see blaming, his supporters see fighting back.

Go figure.

Matters of life and death extend far beyond normal political ideation and thinking.

Fear looks for leadership. It’s that simple.

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Tatetopa
7 hours ago, kobolds said:

We living in world of idiocracy  and this time not film but reality 

Are you citizen of  IDIOCRACY REPUBLIC

Whether I want to be or not, it appears that I am.

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

Matters of life and death extend far beyond normal political ideation and thinking.

Fear looks for leadership. It’s that simple.

Or justification.

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Uncle Sam
Posted (edited)
On 4/28/2020 at 4:06 AM, Manwon Lender said:

What your saying is certainly true, I mean some peoples political views are so strongly ingrained that they can not objectively even discuss the subject. Either you agree with them or they will take offense to any comment that does support their position and party dogma. It's really kind sad because they are so brain washed they will find any excuse or even openly lie to make things fit the picture they have conceived in their own mind.

In my opinion when you lose the ability to see both the bad and good in any situation you have actually stopped thinking. When this happens a persons ability reason in any logical manner is out the widow. Here on the forum there are many members who fall into this category and I have found that it better to not answer any post they make to you. Because the result is always exactly the same, and nothing of value can be learned from the conversation.

Peace

Reason I rarely ever post anymore. No one is willing to read the links and well thought out post, then counter with their own well thought out and detail post when it comes to debating. Almost gave up on this site because of that. Seems so far that they snip aspects of the post and then just blurt out whatever they want, even referring back to arguments that have been debunked months ago to push their narrative. They do not want to learn or try to understand the situation, they just want to say their side is good and be done with it. If the person I am debating gives me evidence and facts, I will take those facts into what I have learned and incorporate it. There is no such thing as a devil's advocate anymore too, seems everyone just chose sides and refuse to budge too. The goal of a debate is to counter their arguments with facts and try to change their mind by the end of it.

Edited by Uncle Sam
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Manwon Lender
3 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

Reason I rarely ever post anymore. No one is willing to read the links and well thought out post, then counter with their own well thought out and detail post when it comes to debating. Almost gave up on this site because of that. Seems so far that they snip aspects of the post and then just blurt out whatever they want, even referring back to arguments that have been debunked months ago to push their narrative. They do not want to learn or try to understand the situation, they just want to say their side is good and be done with it. If the person I am debating gives me evidence and facts, I will take those facts into what I have learned and incorporate it. There is no such thing as a devil's advocate anymore too, seems everyone just chose sides and refuse to budge too.

Its really a sad state of affairs, and what we are seeing here is a direct reflection of what is going on everywhere and it is what's is destroying country. People don't understand that even their Hero can make mistakes, I mean show me a human that's perfect, because anyone that claims to be is dangerous and a complete liar who cant be trusted. Across our Nation everyone is bias, and what's worst is our Nations Media is also bias to the point where most of don't even know what to believe any longer.

If I were you I wont give up on this site, there are some good people you just have to separate the good from the bad, and just ignore the bad. I am a retired US Army Soldier and a Disabled Veteran and I live by a simple code Lead, Follow or get the F out of the way. No one is going run me off or ever change what I believe and that will never change. So I say kick them in the ass and follow your own beliefs, and no matter if they want to learn or not their is much we can still learn form them, at least the fact they we will never allow ourselves to become like them. Never forget we are not alone their are many Americas who feel and think the same way and some day America will be great again, to steal a statement from our Fearless Leader.:D

Peace

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