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Hammerclaw

How Would You React. To A God Revelation?

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Mr Walker
3 hours ago, third_eye said:

Okay, I'm at a clear disadvantage here, help me out, what language would this God be speaking with... 

~

Your language, via his multiversal translator. 

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Mr Walker
3 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

I always imagined the expierence would transcend language. Sort of like how feelings during dreams work.

In dreams you just "know" what's going on somehow without any words.

God can speak  out loud or mind to mind, but. given the need for communication, "his" words are translated into the language of the listener  "He's"  an alien.

His own language is not any of the ones spoken on earth 

 

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Mr Walker
2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

I don't either, since I'm not. Perhaps it's you feeling defensive for some inexplicable reason? Seriously, I'm just amusing myself and thought I'd  replace the closed thread. I simply wish everyone would imagine that all their conditions for belief were met and satisfied and consider answering my question. It's not real, it's just pretend, but it really seems to be a problem for folks. Quite unintentional and unanticipated on my part.

And you  are right While they may not realise it, some posters inability to entertain this, even as a thought  experiment,  demonstrates an unwillingness to even entertain the possibility in an imaginative way.  Maybe its too scary to contemplate, or maybe they just lack the imaginative skills.

The more materialist you are, the harder it is to think in nonmaterial forms  such as imagination.   

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Tatetopa
1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

Not sure about eternity, but i could sure do with a few more thousand years to evolve myself,  improve myself, and to enjoy myself .

It is sad when a person's life outlasts their dreams.

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third_eye
1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

Your language, via his multiversal translator. 

You just can't resist lying can you, even when it's just pretend,you still have to resort to lies. 

~

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eight bits

@third_eye

I think it was a joke. Best to think the best of people (as much as possible) :)

@Hammerclaw

I think the thread is going better than you think. It is a hard question.

Plus, you catch us all at a bad time for confidence in our hypothetical predictions. Just six months ago, who envisioned with any accuracy how we are all living today? Even little parts of it (November 2019: "Within your lifetime, "sellers" will pay buyers to take freshly pumped crude oil off their hands, $10, $20, even $30 a barrel." Yeah, right. I'll have what you're smoking ...). You could get arrested walking into WalMart with a mask on your face (as I'm told that some folks were "escorted outside by law enforcement" early on in this crisis). Now, you'll have trouble getting in otherwise.

Good thread.

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third_eye
11 minutes ago, eight bits said:

I think it was a joke. Best to think the best of people (as much as possible) :)

That's the as good as it gets with this unapologetic and unrepentant liar... 

For someone that claims to be "professionally" educated and "expertly" qualified I'd offer some leeway of assumptions about presumptuous propositions... Like maybe being able to do something even a kid can do... 

Quote

 

[00.06:31]

~

After all, if I'm not mistaken, it's also this God that was so worried about some tower built so high that it infringed on the borders of some heavenly neighborhood that scattered everyone with twisted tongues... 

Not because of some sort of translating device... 

Now that's the funny of the joke... 

~

Edited by third_eye
Stoopid android predictive text
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Sherapy
6 hours ago, and then said:

The premise that those of faith are suppose to hold is that we are created beings and the Creator would know what is best for our ultimate fulfillment and happiness.  Those who reject that idea have only the history of mankind to look forward to repeating over and over.  So, if you became aware that the "instructions" WOULD make you happier, would you still be willing to reject it and to chart your own course?  I think that most who are living today, would do so.  For believers, the actions of non-believers would not change anything.  Each person has to choose their own path and then deal with whatever consequences would follow.  It's an absolutely just and equitable way for every human.  

This is an interesting way to see things. Thank you for sharing.
 

For me, this is the equivalent of saying since I carried and gave birth to my sons, I ultimately know what is best for their ultimate fulfillment and happiness. 
The truth is “I don’t”  this is something that will be determined by them, by living their lives and there will be times along the journey that  they will not be fulfilled or happy and it will be these times that gives rise to what and why they deem something important, if they do. 
 

PI recently watched Staying Alive and there is a scene where Tony Moreno is apologizing to his mother about having a bad attitude most of his life and his mother says what are you apologizing for “that bad attitude got you out of this house.” In other words that bad attitude was passion used to fulfill his dreams. 

I absolutely advocate for doing it ones own way, living is the point whether it is or with a  god. Personally, I focus on the living and go from there.  Just my two cents. 

I am here to report there is happiness and fulfillment without god too. :wub:

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Sherapy
1 hour ago, third_eye said:

That's the as good as it gets with this unapologetic and unrepentant liar... 

For someone that claims to be "professionally" educated and "expertly" qualified I'd offer some leeway of assumptions about presumptuous propositions... Like maybe being able to do something even a kid can do... 

[00.06:31]

~

After all, if I'm not mistaken, it's also this God that was so worried about some tower built so high that it infringed on the borders of some heavenly neighborhood that scattered everyone with twisted tongues... 

Not because of some sort of translating device... 

Now that's the funny of the joke... 

~

I think you have a point, I am at current learning Spanish, it really is a matter of just doing it  and I can’t wait for covid to end so I can resume traveling, 

Edited by Sherapy
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lightly
11 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

That's given. The question is a "what if" one about how you would react to a completely convincing revelation, publicly or privately experienced.

Not sure I like what this says about me...but my very first thought was...  I'd fall on my knees and beg forgiveness.   :P

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Stubbly_Dooright
8 hours ago, Will Due said:
8 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

If it’s real to you, why pretend?

 

Well likewise if it isn't real to you, why pretend that it isn't?

In other words why pretend that a God revelation for you isn't real?

My point, that you quoted, is that pretending is something that one really shouldn’t be doing to themselves. 

Maybe, if I worded that particular question to you. Why do you need to pretend? Are you pretending that the revelation is real? If it is, you’re not pretending are you? 

For me, pretending is something I don’t take lightly. I might pretend in little doses, and that’s only to please certain aspects of my life. As for things, life changes and life situations, it’s better to be honest and real about it. 

When it comes to subjective and the like type situations, why pretend to one’s self? I tend to look at both sides of these situations anyways. I don’t pretend it is something, that I think is not for a surety. 

If you think, I am pretending that something is not real when it is, then you definitely do not know me very well. If anything, has the potential to come across as more than one thing, then that is the recipe that it is not exactly what you think it is. I think, pretending it is will only hurt you in the end. 

If I should bring up my point, in reference to the OP, I think we need to evaluate the revelation itself for it’s genuine existence. 

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Stubbly_Dooright
7 hours ago, and then said:
12 hours ago, Sherapy said:

How does conforming to the rules of a so called god give a better life? 

The premise that those of faith are suppose to hold is that we are created beings and the Creator would know what is best for our ultimate fulfillment and happiness.  Those who reject that idea have only the history of mankind to look forward to repeating over and over.  So, if you became aware that the "instructions" WOULD make you happier, would you still be willing to reject it and to chart your own course?  I think that most who are living today, would do so.  For believers, the actions of non-believers would not change anything.  Each person has to choose their own path and then deal with whatever consequences would follow.  It's an absolutely just and equitable way for every human.  

I’m reminded in my book selling days, of one lady customer who was coming in for a book, whether to buy one per suggestions or not, and I referred her to the Oprah book club list. She was nice about it, but plainly stated she didn’t like someone else, telling her what she would like to read. I didn’t blame her for feeling that way. Point, she’s someone who is unique, and well, everyone has their own paths and ways of what makes them happy. 

What ever lists there are that are based as rules, one can see that as a guide to live well, but to be happy, I don’t see that. I don’t think it would work for everyone. Maybe, that is way, (you think) people ‘reject’ it. When in actually, it is something that has a chance of actually failing. 

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Stubbly_Dooright
7 hours ago, and then said:
12 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Why does a person have to belief in a Omni faceted perfection to have a better life.

There is, as far as I'm aware, no compulsion to believe anything.  But again, since humanity has created a VERY clear historical record of what we do, over and over, many choose to believe a book that actually predicts coming events.  That is the only proof any person will ever have before God makes Himself known on the earth again.  This discussion has been chewed over for the whole 8 years I've been here and the only response from people who cannot believe seems to be that they - like all other humans - tend to seek answers that "prove" them to be correct.  As we get further into this final age of human government it will be more and more difficult to appear rational and unbiased about the events that are happening.  To each, their own choice.

We might have a more clear way of recording historical situations, but did we in the past? With the less ways then, of how recording history, and how there were bias ness in how it was probably recorded, I really don’t think history being recoded was that clear. If the Bible was clear in it’s task, why are there so many versions and constantly debated about?

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Stubbly_Dooright
9 hours ago, Sherapy said:
9 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Point the ones out that answer the question, it shouldn't take long. I think you'd have to agree, the premise I posited has pretty much been ignored, with many of the responses somewhat surly and disdainful and merely restatements of their stance on non belief. 

For me, I think the posters have done their best.

Sadly, I don’t have much of an answer, sorry about this. 
 

It is a good thread

I agree! :yes:  

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Stubbly_Dooright
6 hours ago, and then said:
7 hours ago, Guyver said:

If I may ask, what makes you think we are in the final phase of human government?

All of the markers that Christ spoke of on the Temple Mount are coming into focus quite clearly.  Regard of how one sees the nation of Israel, its rejuvenation and the Jews coming in there, literally from the "four corners" of the earth, is a guidepost for what comes next.  Another, yet future indicator will be that a confederacy of nations will surround Israel and take control of it for 3.5 years.  

The clearest signature of this time is that Turkey and "Persia" (Iran) will come together with a leader known as Gog of Magog and the armies they field will surround and invade Israel.  Another which could happen at any point going forward is the destruction of the city of Damascus, so thoroughly that it will be abandoned of inhabitants and it will happen overnight.  

As to the belief that we are seeing the culmination of human government, look no further than to the schism we see in the world today.  The whole planet is sliding into tribal groups and this time around, some of those groups have nukes.

I have seen some,(who usually are not that devout) look at today’s events and reflect on this in the religious perspective. In all honesty, I can see why they do that. 

I would categorize this as extremely larger than most situations. Now, I wouldn’t myself, reflect highly on it, (no religious teaching to reflect over and consider), I still see this as something that has a more current natural cause. My belief system wants me to consider it in the more defensive mode. (That probably doesn’t make sense. ) 

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Stubbly_Dooright
2 hours ago, eight bits said:

@third_eye

I think it was a joke. Best to think the best of people (as much as possible) :)

You’re awesome!!! :wub:

Quote

@Hammerclaw

I think the thread is going better than you think. It is a hard question.

Plus, you catch us all at a bad time for confidence in our hypothetical predictions. Just six months ago, who envisioned with any accuracy how we are all living today? Even little parts of it (November 2019: "Within your lifetime, "sellers" will pay buyers to take freshly pumped crude oil off their hands, $10, $20, even $30 a barrel." Yeah, right. I'll have what you're smoking ...). You could get arrested walking into WalMart with a mask on your face (as I'm told that some folks were "escorted outside by law enforcement" early on in this crisis). Now, you'll have trouble getting in otherwise.

Good thread.

Yes, good thread. 

And, I was thinking of these things during this :( time. :no:  I was making a joke about how now this is a celebrity’s dream. They could go out, hat, sunglasses, masks, and anyone could assume they are not a celebrity. As I was entering the supermarket from the parking lot the other day, I realized how coming out to my car and walking up to the front doors, how I feel I should yell, ‘stick em up!!!’. I still feel conspicuous, even though my state has it in law that this type of covering is ‘heavily suggested’. What keeps me feeling self conscious about it, is that everyone else in the parking lot and in the store, all look like me. 

Yes, this is something to consider, with situations like these, and Hammie’s question was a hard question. I believe a good one, but yes, it’s not a one word answer. There are varying parameters to it, that I think should be flushed out to be considered. 

If I could Hammie’s, I hope my first post answered your question. If I would repeat it, I just might believe it if I knew for a fact it was true. But, and this is considering how varying outlooks should be considered, it’s not something I would shout over the intercom about. Plus, on top of that, I would still have my own belief come in to take over and custom make it to make me comfortable. 

*shrugs* 

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Stubbly_Dooright
1 hour ago, Sherapy said:
7 hours ago, and then said:

The premise that those of faith are suppose to hold is that we are created beings and the Creator would know what is best for our ultimate fulfillment and happiness.  Those who reject that idea have only the history of mankind to look forward to repeating over and over.  So, if you became aware that the "instructions" WOULD make you happier, would you still be willing to reject it and to chart your own course?  I think that most who are living today, would do so.  For believers, the actions of non-believers would not change anything.  Each person has to choose their own path and then deal with whatever consequences would follow.  It's an absolutely just and equitable way for every human.  

This is an interesting way to see things. Thank you for sharing.
 

For me, this is the equivalent of saying since I carried and gave birth to my sons, I ultimately know what is best for their ultimate fulfillment and happiness. 
The truth is “I don’t”  this is something that will be determined by them, by living their lives and there will be times along the journey that  they will not be fulfilled or happy and it will be these times that gives rise to what and why they deem something important, if they do. 
 

PI recently watched Staying Alive and there is a scene where Tony Moreno is apologizing to his mother about having a bad attitude most of his life and his mother says what are you apologizing for “that bad attitude got you out of this house.” In other words that bad attitude was passion used to fulfill his dreams. 

I absolutely advocate for doing it ones own way, living is the point whether it is or with a  god. Personally, I focus on the living and go from there.  Just my two cents. 

I am here to report there is happiness and fulfillment without god too. :wub:

Brilliant! I think, positively brilliant!! I never say the “SNF” sequel, (actually, I didn’t the original either :o ) but that sounds awesome. I reflect on the attitude, and wonder if that can be changed. How many times someone has been told, ‘you have the wrong attitude for this’ and ‘change your attitude’. Can one do that? I think, it can be hidden, but unless someone wrongly went into something they don’t have the heart for, those thrust into this, attitude is something that will stick. 

This, of course, what you have said, is something I think should be considered, (on the differing attitudes and lifestyles) that it’s not a one fits all situation. 

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Stubbly_Dooright
1 hour ago, Sherapy said:
2 hours ago, third_eye said:

That's the as good as it gets with this unapologetic and unrepentant liar... 

For someone that claims to be "professionally" educated and "expertly" qualified I'd offer some leeway of assumptions about presumptuous propositions... Like maybe being able to do something even a kid can do... 

[00.06:31]

~

After all, if I'm not mistaken, it's also this God that was so worried about some tower built so high that it infringed on the borders of some heavenly neighborhood that scattered everyone with twisted tongues... 

Not because of some sort of translating device... 

Now that's the funny of the joke... 

~

I think you have a point, I am at current learning Spanish, it really is a matter of just doing it  and I can’t wait for covid to end so I can resume traveling, 

All though my retail life, (including the one I’m furloughed at) I have come to feel I need to brush up on my high school Spanish, college French, and also learn Sigh Language. I have bought books on Spanish, French, and Sign Language, but I find it’s hard to really buckle down and try to learn it fluently. And, a lot gets lost in translation, is something I have to consider. Now, with Google translation and free app I downloaded, that is so easy to refer to. 

If I’m understanding you correctly, one has to realize the language and how it is translated. 

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Liquid Gardens

I don't think there's any issue with defensiveness to this question, for me it can just go in a lot of different directions if we just stick to the conditions you've offered.  My first stumbling block is how I've been 'gifted with the knowledge'.  If it is in the way that some believers 'know' which is just based on faith, then I don't know how I'd react, I don't really have an analog to that currently in my life and don't know how all my current questions and criticisms of god belief have been resolved in that scenario.  To some extent this is asking me how an entirely different person would react, which I can't know even now.

If the revelation that god exists was accompanied by some knowledge I could not have obtained otherwise, then at least I would have something I could relate to in my current state, I have some basis to eliminate hallucinations or the like.  I think though with your reference to 'personal' spiritual epiphany and that no one knows if it is factual or not that this scenario may not count for your question, although I'm not sure how I could proceed with your question otherwise.  In this case it would be fascinating and something obviously interesting to pursue, but I'm not sure it would really change my life.  To take the god you were mentioning on another thread - a creator of a directed universe who is so far beyond our comprehension that we don't understand its idea of morality if it has one, and we're not in any way created 'in his image' - then I'm not sure it would really change my life if there's not going to be ongoing revelations with more info.  He is potentially as far detached from my life as other things that already exist but have no effect on me partially because of the extent of this detachment; quasars and pulsars are very interesting but don't affect my thinking or behavior at all.

I already have evidence-free suspicions that there might be a greater scale intelligence behind the existence of our world, but that suspicion doesn't drive any change in my behaviors now as I'm not in any kind of despair from the idea that a god doesn't exist.  The mere existence of a god-like creature I don't think would drive much of a change or reaction in most people, it's all the other stuff that goes along with it like that it cares about us, that there are good and bad outcomes based on our moral behavior, that we are a part of a 'greatest story ever told', etc, that would have a greater impact on a behavioral or thought process change.

I guess the most I would say is that I would probably have a little more peace of mind just because the existence of a god may provide some hints or answers to open questions we all have, so there may be some comfort involved with the partial resolution of those.

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XenoFish

Guess I'm the stubborn one around here.

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Will Due

 

It's ok. I'm stubborn too. :D

 

 

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Stubbly_Dooright
7 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I don't think there's any issue with defensiveness to this question, for me it can just go in a lot of different directions if we just stick to the conditions you've offered.  My first stumbling block is how I've been 'gifted with the knowledge'.  If it is in the way that some believers 'know' which is just based on faith, then I don't know how I'd react, I don't really have an analog to that currently in my life and don't know how all my current questions and criticisms of god belief have been resolved in that scenario.  To some extent this is asking me how an entirely different person would react, which I can't know even now.

If the revelation that god exists was accompanied by some knowledge I could not have obtained otherwise, then at least I would have something I could relate to in my current state, I have some basis to eliminate hallucinations or the like.  I think though with your reference to 'personal' spiritual epiphany and that no one knows if it is factual or not that this scenario may not count for your question, although I'm not sure how I could proceed with your question otherwise.  In this case it would be fascinating and something obviously interesting to pursue, but I'm not sure it would really change my life.  To take the god you were mentioning on another thread - a creator of a directed universe who is so far beyond our comprehension that we don't understand its idea of morality if it has one, and we're not in any way created 'in his image' - then I'm not sure it would really change my life if there's not going to be ongoing revelations with more info.  He is potentially as far detached from my life as other things that already exist but have no effect on me partially because of the extent of this detachment; quasars and pulsars are very interesting but don't affect my thinking or behavior at all.

I, at first, would like Hammie’s to know, I may have not gotten the first initial understanding of how he worded his post. (As I have mentioned before, it always takes me a bit.) So, I hope, I am still providing helpful answers to his questions. 

Now, I think you made a good point, LG. :yes:  Would there be two situations to consider and how each of them reflects the situation put forth by the OP? Considering the person with no exposer to religion and then the person with religion (and how each person of different religions would consider the question and situation) Would it be the same in each case? 

I may have not had any religious upbringing, but at my age now, I have something that would be the opposite to how I was raised. So, in that nature, how I would consider the situation and how I would react, would be slowly conformed to how I personally see it. Again, not a one person fits all situation. 

Quote

I already have evidence-free suspicions that there might be a greater scale intelligence behind the existence of our world, but that suspicion doesn't drive any change in my behaviors now as I'm not in any kind of despair from the idea that a god doesn't exist.  The mere existence of a god-like creature I don't think would drive much of a change or reaction in most people, it's all the other stuff that goes along with it like that it cares about us, that there are good and bad outcomes based on our moral behavior, that we are a part of a 'greatest story ever told', etc, that would have a greater impact on a behavioral or thought process change.

I guess the most I would say is that I would probably have a little more peace of mind just because the existence of a god may provide some hints or answers to open questions we all have, so there may be some comfort involved with the partial resolution of those.

Would the answer be considered, if it’s a ‘one step at a time’ answer. 

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third_eye

I'm not religious nor do I care for the theological mish mash remixes that a lot of people raps about these days. What I understand from what I know is if some so called divine entity has to reveal himself / herself / itself then what it says to me is why hide in the first place? 

God can't and should not hide or be hiding... hence... 

"Ayekah"

It is we ourselves that believes that we are hidden, not really very well but thinks it's so because it's unspoken like some open secret. 

If God knows that it's because God is indifferent, but if you say God doesn't know that then I don't give a flying duck or flailing gander about what God wants to reveal or hide. 

~

 

Edited by third_eye
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Stubbly_Dooright
6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Guess I'm the stubborn one around here.

 

7 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

It's ok. I'm stubborn too. :D

 

 

Annnd, something that goes around with how I see this panning out. I see stubbornness as the same as attitude, personal feelings, something that I feel is the result of life’s situations. In other words, stubbornness is something that I think should be considered as a subjective stepping stone to what ever reaction that is a result. 

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Liquid Gardens
10 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Would the answer be considered, if it’s a ‘one step at a time’ answer. 

Agreed, if there were more steps and ongoing information about whether god actually wants something of us then my behavior would probably change.  It's an interesting question, but my estimation of how I would react depends on a lot more details; did I have the revelation, did the truth of god's existence just occur to me, or do I think the revelation was actually a divine communication with God revealing himself to me?  The revelation that god exists but is entirely impersonal and thus I have no evidence that he's any more concerned with humans than asteroids, then although it has big implications on scientific questions it doesn't necessarily have those on me and my behavior and wouldn't necessarily result in any significant reaction.

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