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Hammerclaw

How Would You React. To A God Revelation?

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Hammerclaw
9 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

A simple question: why is god necessary, for some folk, in order to live a good life?

One is either born into a cultural complex where it is simply an unquestioned part of life or one adopts a religion later as an adult. For late adopters it fills a void, a spiritual need that the bulk of humanity seems to have. It was a foundational cornerstone of civilization. There were temples and gods and priests and priestesses in ancient Sumer, over six thousand years ago. Modern religions are just the latest iterations. 

Edited by Hammerclaw

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Jodie.Lynne
14 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The premise of the thread is that you would and only you know how that could happen for you. Like other posters have remarked, it's a difficult question and even harder to answer and damned unpleasant for some to even imagine. 

As you say, a supreme deity would know exactly how to convince of it's bona fides, yet, I don't find it unpleasant to contemplate.

I would have a grand list of questions to ask, if it was proven to me as truth.

 

However, in my life, I've listened to many who have an 'understanding' of god. There seems to be an extremely wide range of opinions about what "HE" wants......

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Sherapy
6 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

For some, it's like a lifeline that pulls them back from the brink, for others, the wind beneath their wings. For myself, the Kingdom of Heaven exist in the hearts of good people of whatever stripe, spread out upon the face of the world for any with eyes to see it.

So for some god is cast in the role that works for them? One might choose god as an inspiration, one might choose to imagine a god that saves them from themselves, etc etc. 
 

How, about the ones that  beleive what they imagine is actuality. 
 

You are in no way suggesting that god is anything more than imagination, correct? 
 


 

 

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Jodie.Lynne
4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

One is either born into a cultural complex where it is simply an unquestioned part of life

Should that be the criteria? Should we accept everything we are told, without question?

Quote

It was a foundational cornerstone of civilization. 

That is debatable. Seems to me, 'faith' in a god is more divisive than constructive.

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Sherapy
5 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

One is either born into a cultural complex where it is simply an unquestioned part of life or one adopts a religion later as an adult. For late adopters it fills a void, a spiritual need that the bulk of humanity seems to have. It was a foundational cornerstone of civilization. There were temples and gods and priests and priestesses in ancient Sumer, over six thousand years ago. Modern religions are just the latest iterations. 

What is the spiritual need that the bulk of humanity has IYO?

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Hammerclaw
Just now, Jodie.Lynne said:

As you say, a supreme deity would know exactly how to convince of it's bona fides, yet, I don't find it unpleasant to contemplate.

I would have a grand list of questions to ask, if it was proven to me as truth.

 

However, in my life, I've listened to many who have an 'understanding' of god. There seems to be an extremely wide range of opinions about what "HE" wants......

The "He" is just gender anthropomorphism. It's particular to Judeo-Christian religions but was hardly exclusive to male deities prior. "Great is Diana of the Ephesians!"

 

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Hammerclaw
2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

So for some god is cast in the role that works for them? One might choose god as an inspiration, one might choose to imagine a god that saves them from themselves, etc etc. 
 

How, about the ones that  beleive what they imagine is actuality. 
 

You are in no way suggesting that god is anything more than imagination, correct? 
 


 

 

God is no more imaginary than the bulk of what one holds precious in life, or just as. That's for each individual to decide.

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Jodie.Lynne
3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The "He" is just gender anthropomorphism. It's particular to Judeo-Christian religions but was hardly exclusive to male deities prior. "Great is Diana of the Ephesians!"

 

Kudos. I used 'he', since the majority of believers today have faith in a masculine deity.

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Sherapy
2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

God is no more imaginary than the bulk of what one holds precious in life, or just as. That's for each individual to decide.

As an individual what position do you take? And why? 
 

I would like to hear from you, I have a respect for you as a believer and want to hear your thoughts, your input. 
 

You aren’t peddling BS to me. 

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Hammerclaw
2 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Kudos. I used 'he', since the majority of believers today have faith in a masculine deity.

It's damned sexist, either way. If there is a creator, I don't envision it as even remotely human.

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Sherapy
4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

It's damned sexist, either way. If there is a creator, I don't envision it as even remotely human.

I like your take, if there was a creator it would have to be more impressive than the current model. :D
 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Hammerclaw
5 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

As an individual what position do you take? And why? 
 

I would like to hear from you, I have a respect for you as a believer and want to hear your thoughts, your input. 
 

You aren’t peddling BS to me. 

The I'll have go all Zen on you. God is both everything and nothing I can imagine.

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Sherapy
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

The I'll have go all Zen on you. God is both everything and nothing I can imagine.

Love it!!! 
 

:lol:

 

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Hammerclaw
3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Love it!!! 
 

:lol:

 

Don't forget to hear it in my quaint Southern accent.:gun:

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Hammerclaw
30 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Should that be the criteria? Should we accept everything we are told, without question?

That is debatable. Seems to me, 'faith' in a god is more divisive than constructive.

It was/is a driving force and has been present, from the beginning. Even a brief perusal of ancient history confirms it's unquestioned voice of authority. Man"s first rulers were Priest-Kings. The past is what it is. I never cast judgment on it through the lens of modern morality.

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Stubbly_Dooright
1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:
1 hour ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Part of me Is still confused. Another part of me doesn’t want to touch this post with a 10 foot pole. Maybe it’s because, as much as I can sympathize and probably empathize with you, I don’t think I can comment at all on that without it being something that might strike a nerve or come across as thoughtless. 
maybe the best thing to say, is that I see it differently. Even though, I’ve lost as well and it has shaped me today.

Would escaping into a imagined dream world be the best thing to do for this?

Life is a waking dream woven from symbology defined by uncounted human generations. We live in an artifact called civilization and culture replete with symbols enriched with meaning. One partakes of them and weaves the skein of one's life with them.  

I’m sorry, this sounds so subjective. I don’t see life as you do, and not in this way.

I don’t have the formation of thoughts that you have things like this. I guess, it is what it is. Life, death, living, working, playing, thinking.

I do feel there’s always many possibilities, even if it doesn’t make sense at the time. But if there’s going to be a similar thought, it’s knowing you have to follow the recipe of mixing the cake and know that you can either add sprinkles or coconut later on to how you like.

and maybe, Hammie, another way of looking how it’s more confusing to answer your questions. You might see life as poetic as I see life as solid, in the end it’s not a one size fits all as I stated before.

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Liquid Gardens
1 hour ago, eight bits said:

The issue you raised, as I  understood it, was that rocking your world would require some kind of continuing interaction with God, or God maintaining a relationship or involvement with the world.

Ah, understood, I'm finding that my conclusions on this are pretty chaotic in that they are very sensitive to the conditions.  The continuing interaction with God I think would be required if God is not going to provide knowledge of something I don't know or somehow establish somehow he's god-like, if I were to have continuing interaction with it and eliminate mental issues then I'd still have a little something to overcome the doubt it's not all in my head, which may be sufficient based on the content of the interactions.  I think it was the specific example that you chose, God is not unthinkable to me in the way that mathematical or logical laws not being true are.  If something unthinkable is proven, the effect could be devastating as opposed to finding out God exists; "everything I perceive and think is real is unfounded, none of this may be happening, I don't know what "I" am anymore", as opposed to, "oh, THERE you are".  There are two revelations, God exists and what you thought was unthinkable is not, I think the latter may mess me up more thoroughly.

1 hour ago, eight bits said:

In my scenario, God is just making conversation. Interesting conversation. He isn't changing any rules. I would now see something about reality that I hadn't seen before. Reality has been that way all along. Who knew?

Agreed, and I'm not trying to pooh-pooh the impact of finding out that any god exists would have, I think I'm focusing more on the 'change your life' part of the question.  If God shows up frequently and wants to talk about things, awesome, life-changing in some ways undoubtedly, but not necessarily as life-changing as finding out that I'm a sinner damned for eternal hell unless I repent, or that if I don't change my ways my next cycle through the reincarnation wheel will be as an earthworm.

1 hour ago, eight bits said:

Generally speaking, deists don't believe much in divine revelation. My scenario is premised, thanks to Hammerclaw, on there being at least one divine revelation, in my lifetime, for me to react to - how?

I didn't necessarily assume it that way, as phrased it says 'God revelation' and 'personal spiritual epiphany' which when used in a general sense is just something that can just occur to you; I think Einstein would qualify as having had a revelation about the nature of time, just not a divine one.  In that case, one can have the 'revelation'/'epiphany' that a deist god exists; again, incredible information but about zero on the 'change my life' scale.

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Hammerclaw
57 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I’m sorry, this sounds so subjective. I don’t see life as you do, and not in this way.

I don’t have the formation of thoughts that you have things like this. I guess, it is what it is. Life, death, living, working, playing, thinking.

I do feel there’s always many possibilities, even if it doesn’t make sense at the time. But if there’s going to be a similar thought, it’s knowing you have to follow the recipe of mixing the cake and know that you can either add sprinkles or coconut later on to how you like.

and maybe, Hammie, another way of looking how it’s more confusing to answer your questions. You might see life as poetic as I see life as solid, in the end it’s not a one size fits all as I stated before.

It's the child in me, I suppose, the child in Summer, running outside after breakfast to see what curiosities and wonders nature had wrought in my world overnight. A blue skink, what we called scorpion lizards back then, darting across the walk. Green hummingbirds flitting around the red flowering vines climbing a dead tree. A walk in the woods behind the house, the squeaking axle song of robins and the strident, challenging cry of a newly arrived northern cardinal and the outraged response of a resident male. In the quiet of the woods, a slow ponderous rustle of leaves and finding it's source, a brilliantly coloured terrapin under dappled sunlight, moving slowly down to the creek to breed. The brilliant sky, cerulean, through gaps in the canopy, fretted with fleecy white clouds. The smell, the warm air thick and redolent with the scents and odors of greenery and honeysuckle flowers and the dry brown leaves of yesterday's summer that crunch beneath my feet.

Yes, you pretty much nailed it; life on a good day is like poetry to me.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Liquid Gardens
1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

and damned unpleasant for some to even imagine. 

Is there anything unpleasant just about 'a god exists' though?  Yes, there are unpleasant things to be found in all the conceptions of Gods that are popular currently but that's because of their specific qualities, none of which for me are required in order for them to be a god.  I can imagine a lot of cool gods whose existence would not be unpleasant.

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Is there anything unpleasant just about 'a god exists' though?  Yes, there are unpleasant things to be found in all the conceptions of Gods that are popular currently but that's because of their specific qualities, none of which for me are required in order for them to be a god.  I can imagine a lot of cool gods whose existence would not be unpleasant.

Of course you can--it's the optimist in you. For they who have dedicated life and thought to the proposition of no deity, no creation, no soul, no continuance and are content with their philosophy and adherence to the scientific principle, it might be unpleasant, even impossible. The very antithesis of what they are. It would vary from person to person and be hardest for those with an axe to grind, some trauma they attribute to religion or some religious persons. Well, at least, that's what I surmise.

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Stubbly_Dooright
1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

God is no more imaginary than the bulk of what one holds precious in life, or just as. That's for each individual to decide.

The way I see it, but I hold precious in my life as my family, my job, my freedom. With that be seen as imaginary?

Edited by Stubbly_Dooright
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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

The way I see it, but I hold precious in my life as my family, my job, my freedom. With that be seen as imaginary?

What intangibles you hold precious, like love, affection, appreciation of beauty, feelings without substance, but none-the-less as real for you as the above, it is that of which I speak. Fixed that for you.

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Stubbly_Dooright
26 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

It's the child in me, I suppose, the child in Summer, running outside to what curiosities and wonders nature had wrought in my world overnight. A blue skink, what we called scorpion lizards back then, darting across the walk. Green hummingbirds flitting around the red flowering vines climbing a dead tree. A walk in the woods behind the house, the squeaking axle song of robins and the strident, challenging cry of a newly arrived northern cardinal and the outraged response of a resident male. In the quiet of the woods, a slow ponderous rustle of leaves and finding it's source, a brilliantly coloured terrapin moving slowly down to the creek to breed. The brilliant sky, cerulean, through gaps in the canopy, fretted with fleecy white clouds. The smell, the warm air thick and redolent with the scents and odors of greenery and honeysuckle flowers and the dry brown leaves of yesterday's summer that crunched beneath my feet.

Yes, you pretty much nailed it; life on a good day is like poetry to me.

*nods approvingly *
Cool! :D  

I like to take a walk in the woods. I like to appreciate how the sun in the morning shows through the trees. And other things I don’t take for granted. What is poetry for some is solidarity for others.

And to add a fourth sub groups within separate groups of this, I see solitary that could be sprinkled with a fine dusting of possibilities even if it’s in the divine or paranormal.

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Stubbly_Dooright
7 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

The way I see it, but I hold pressure in my life as my family, my job, my freedom. With that be seen as imaginary?

 

2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:
7 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

The way I see it, but I hold precious in my life as my family, my job, my freedom. With that be seen as imaginary?

What intangibles you hold precious, like love, affection, appreciation of beauty, feelings without substance, but none-the-less as real for you as the above, it is that of which I speak. Fixed that for you.

:whistle:  :rofl: thanks for that. When I’m on my phone, I tend to use voice to text. I do try to read over and correct , but as it’s obvious I managed to skip a few.

and yeah, and are we also in the agreement what holds precious has many different point of views?

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Sherapy
16 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

*nods approvingly *
Cool! :D  

I like to take a walk in the woods. I like to appreciate how the sun in the morning shows through the trees. And other things I don’t take for granted. What is poetry for some is solidarity for others.

And to add a fourth sub groups within separate groups of this, I see solitary that could be sprinkled with a fine dusting of possibilities even if it’s in the divine or paranormal.

He really does put poetry into the everyday of life. 
 

And, I love your add too I love your last sentence profound and beautiful at the same time. You have such grace in your writing. 

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