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Scudbuster

Freethought Matters: A 2nd Look at Religion

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Scudbuster

Some great observations in this 1980 film that are just as timely today - actually probably more so - as 40 years ago. 

One comment that I loved: "Hunting out good behavior in the bible is like wading through a sewer looking for a gem"

 

 

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papageorge1
31 minutes ago, Scudbuster said:

Some great observations in this 1980 film that are just as timely today - actually probably more so - as 40 years ago. 

I watched parts (couldn't justify 27 minutes as its point was repeated). It strikes me as a negative response to the Moral Majority movement popular for a short time in the 1980s. I just don't see the worry of conservative religion taking away our free thought and speech as an issue worth worrying about today. Free thought and speech has clearly won that battle.

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GoldenWolf
1 hour ago, Scudbuster said:

Some great observations in this 1980 film that are just as timely today - actually probably more so - as 40 years ago. 

One comment that I loved: "Hunting out good behavior in the bible is like wading through a sewer looking for a gem"

 

 

It's an accurate film.

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and then
47 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Free thought and speech has clearly won that battle.

Resoundingly so.  ""Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

It's clear that keeping religion out of the state's hands is far from being the only purpose of the Freedom from religion" entities.  They strive to remove any reference to it at all.  Pretty sure that if they had their way, they'd outlaw the free exercise portion of the first amendment.  I guess it's only "Free Thought" if one believes the correct things.

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zep73

They call it "The Good Book"! That's like the worst description ever!

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GoldenWolf
2 minutes ago, and then said:

Resoundingly so.  ""Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

It's clear that keeping religion out of the state's hands is far from being the only purpose of the Freedom from religion" entities.  They strive to remove any reference to it at all.  Pretty sure that if they had their way, they'd outlaw the free exercise portion of the first amendment.  I guess it's only "Free Thought" if one believes the correct things.

Did you watch the film?

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and then
16 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

They call it "The Good Book"! That's like the worst description ever!

Do you consider the existence of the Bible and those who believe it, to put your freedom to think at jeopardy?  If so, can you explain how it puts freedom at risk?

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zep73
3 minutes ago, and then said:

Do you consider the existence of the Bible and those who believe it, to put your freedom to think at jeopardy?  If so, can you explain how it puts freedom at risk?

Alabama is a good example of how horrible things can get, when fundamentalist evangelicalism gets its way.

Imagine when life itself gets so holy, that a raped daughter is forced to give birth to her own sibling.

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39 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

Alabama is a good example of how horrible things can get, when fundamentalist evangelicalism gets its way.

Imagine when life itself gets so holy, that a raped daughter is forced to give birth to her own sibling.

If that happens, and I'm not aware of that circumstance being accurate, then it would be a horrible injustice.  How does the government of the U.S. take away a person's freedom of thought?  That is what the video alludes to, obliquely, anyway.  If it's a real threat then surely there would be more examples on the national level?

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zep73
2 minutes ago, and then said:

How does the government of the U.S. take away a person's freedom of thought?  That is what the video alludes to, obliquely, anyway.  If it's a real threat then surely there would be more examples on the national level?

I can't answer that. I simply don't know US federal laws well enough. And I never implied they do such a thing, so I am not obligated to.

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4 minutes ago, Tuco's Gas said:

Yeah, I've read history books on WWII and Vietnam that had less violence in them than the Old Testament. 

Reminding me of the great Dawkins quote from "The God Delusion"...

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, ..."
image.png.81d48c67d9338f6d09f3e6621e0da9e6.png
Goodreads › quotes › 23651-the-go...

 

Which of those statutes from the OT are being imposed on a U.S. citizen?  An individual in the U.S. is completely free to accept or reject religion of any kind and it has always been that way.  If you can cite any instance where government officials are forcing compliance to any religious doctrine then we can discuss that.  I'm unaware of such forced compliance and would be against it if it's happening.

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1 minute ago, sci-nerd said:

And I never implied they do such a thing

You cited Alabama as being a place where rape of a daughter takes place, apparently, with the acquiescence of state government.  If I misunderstood your statement, feel free to deny that's was your intent.

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zep73
1 minute ago, and then said:

You cited Alabama as being a place where rape of a daughter takes place, apparently, with the acquiescence of state government.  If I misunderstood your statement, feel free to deny that's was your intent.

The Alabama anti-abortion laws is a real thing. I'm surprised you don't know that, as an American citizen.
How they are allowed to have such laws, by the federal government, beats me. But they are.

You should be explaining this to me, not the other way around!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, sci-nerd said:

How they are allowed to have such laws, by the federal government, beats me. But they are.

The law is being challenged.  In fact, I'm pretty sure it never took effect before it faced a federal court injunction.  The fact that not everyone in the U.S. or the wider world agree that it's okay to snuff out life due to it being an inconvenience brought on by ignorance or apathy, those who DO believe it to be wrong have the right to say so.  At least, for now.  This isn't an abortion thread and making into one will totally derail it.  I won't take part in that.

You were asked specifically about how or if your freedom of thought is limited by religion and you haven't answered it.  Could it be that you can't find a way to justify that claim?

Edited by and then

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zep73
2 minutes ago, and then said:

You were asked specifically about hor or if your freedom of thought is limited by religion and you haven't answered it.  Could it be that you can't find a way to justify that claim?

You must have me confused with someone else. All I said was

2 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

They call it "The Good Book"! That's like the worst description ever!

 

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2 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

You must have me confused with someone else. All I said was

 

I answered your statement, since it was in reference to the idea of the OP that freedom of thought was somehow compromised by religion, with this:

Do you consider the existence of the Bible and those who believe it, to put your freedom to think at jeopardy? 

You answered that by using an act of the Alabama legislature to restrict abortion. My question still stands but if you aren't interested in following up to explain why the "Good Book", while anathema to many, can be seen to actually restrict anyone's "free thought" process.  That was my only point.  It's perfectly valid to deny the faith of others, I have no problem with that.  When the implication is asserted that the faith of one group somehow restricts the freedom of belief or thought to others, I just would like to see examples because I don't see it.  At worst, I'd say that living around people of faith might become annoying if they try to push it on others continually but even THAT isn't really the same as limiting another's freedom.

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zep73
17 hours ago, and then said:

I answered your statement, since it was in reference to the idea of the OP that freedom of thought was somehow compromised by religion, with this:

Do you consider the existence of the Bible and those who believe it, to put your freedom to think at jeopardy? 

You answered that by using an act of the Alabama legislature to restrict abortion. My question still stands but if you aren't interested in following up to explain why the "Good Book", while anathema to many, can be seen to actually restrict anyone's "free thought" process.  That was my only point.  It's perfectly valid to deny the faith of others, I have no problem with that.  When the implication is asserted that the faith of one group somehow restricts the freedom of belief or thought to others, I just would like to see examples because I don't see it.  At worst, I'd say that living around people of faith might become annoying if they try to push it on others continually but even THAT isn't really the same as limiting another's freedom.

Ok, I'll bite, although I don't owe you an answer, since I didn't make any claim.

We all know what happened in Europe and America up until the 18th century. Persecutions against suspected paganism and challenging world views. The first scientists were killed for saying that the sun was the center of out solar system. So we know what religion is capable of!

So, yes, I believe if they got that power again, history would repeat itself, and free thinking would be persecuted. Again!

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hetrodoxly
On 4/29/2020 at 1:04 AM, Tuco's Gas said:

Yeah, I've read history books on WWII and Vietnam that had less violence in them than the Old Testament. 

Reminding me of the great Dawkins quote from "The God Delusion"...

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, ..."
image.png.81d48c67d9338f6d09f3e6621e0da9e6.png
Goodreads › quotes › 23651-the-go...

 

I think Mohammed would win that one.

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hetrodoxly
On 4/28/2020 at 10:27 PM, Scudbuster said:

One comment that I loved: "Hunting out good behavior in the bible is like wading through a sewer looking for a gem

With the Quran it's like swimming in a sewer, there's a great video on how evil Islam is, i'll sort it out and post it for you, you'll love it.

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GoldenWolf
2 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

With the Quran it's like swimming in a sewer, there's a great video on how evil Islam is, i'll sort it out and post it for you, you'll love it.

Try both:  Hunting out good behavior in the Bible or Quran is like wading through a sewer looking for a gem

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Scudbuster
On 4/28/2020 at 7:01 PM, sci-nerd said:

They call it "The Good Book"! That's like the worst description ever!

 

Yes, exactly. I also really liked the comment about the bible being a book of "love": "I studied every page of this book and I didn't find enough love to fill a salt shaker."

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XenoFish

Christianity that is practiced now is some type of lovey dovey hippie mishmash of ideas. It is still idolatry though.

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hetrodoxly
5 hours ago, Tuco's Gas said:

Mmm...maybe not. He was a pedophile. Married a 9-year-old. 

I was going to write he's done worse, but is there worse yes there probably is.

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hetrodoxly
5 hours ago, GoldenWolf said:

sewer looking for a gem

Are we talking OT.

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