Angela Merkel to impose new tax

[Duke Wellington]

12 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

What made you conclude that my point was I did nothing wrong? 

In WWII I didn't, I wasn't born yet, but did my ancestors? Certainly. Of this and of that political affiliations.

Am I doing something wrong today? Certainly. But not nearly as wrong as defending Brexiters and Trumpers who rudely attack people and then get all shocked and offended when they're slapped back. 

 

You're projecting their blame games on me. 

You're blaming me for something they did - they started screeching about WWII and Nazis, once they noticed their propaganda is seen as such. 

 

So, yeah, back on topic.

As I keep trying. 

Angela Merkel did not impose any new EU taxes. She cannot, even if she wanted to, which she doesn't, because she's not insane. 

Brexiter claim that she's imposing taxes on Europeans is a blatant lie.   

I would like to if you would stop lying. Lets have a nice look at the big long list of people indicted to the Hague for war crimes in the former Yugoslavia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_indicted_in_the_International_Criminal_Tribunal_for_the_former_Yugoslavia

That big long list has Croatians on it, Serbians on it, Bosnians on it, Kosovans on it, all sides were at it. There are Presidents, Prime Ministers, Generals, and other people of noteworthy standing on that list. As for the Croatian Prime Minister Mr Tudjman he died of cancer before he could be brought to justice:

https://www.france24.com/en/20171217-un-court-exposes-uneasy-legacy-croatias-father-tudjman

[toast]

36 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

... when they were showed their own countries had a dark past they don't like it

I, as a German, have never denied the very dark past of Germany, on the contrary, even if I`m not responsible for the history. The very problem of this thread is, besides its idiotic title which is a political one but in chemtrailers manner, that ultra conservative US+UK heads here are not willing to accept or to listen to any critics on their countries, especially not from a German guy like me because of SiegHeil!yadayada.

In addition, these ultra conservative US+UK heads still feel some kind of superior, because they are told by a guy with orange skin and a guy with a firecracker haircut that their nations are greater than other nations. Didnt played Hitler the same piano in the 30s in Germany?

[Helen of Annoy]

15 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

As for the Croatian Prime Minister Mr Tudjman he died of cancer before he could be brought to justice:

https://www.france24.com/en/20171217-un-court-exposes-uneasy-legacy-croatias-father-tudjman

Tudjman was the president. 

And he wasn't indicted. Former ICTY prosecutor conveniently remembers the court was ready to indict him, but the fact remains he wasn't indicted. You could use some evidence her memory serves her well and especially that the indictment would end up with guilty verdict. 

Because predicting one's guilt is not exactly popular in non-totalitarian states. 

(I don't have particularly good opinion of that guy, but neither he was a prime minister, nor you've got anything but proverbially biased person's unsupported claims.)

  

Are you doing this to yourself on purpose? 

[hetrodoxly]

1 minute ago, toast said:

I, as a German, have never denied the very dark past of Germany, on the contrary, even if I`m not responsible for the history. The very problem of this thread is, besides its idiotic title which is a political one but in chemtrailers manner, that ultra conservative US+UK heads here are not willing to accept or to listen to any critics on their countries, especially not from a German guy like me because of SiegHeil!yadayada.

In addition, these ultra conservative US+UK heads still feel some kind of superior, because they are told by a guy with orange skin and a guy with a firecracker haircut that their nations are greater than other nations. Didnt played Hitler the same piano in the 30s in Germany?

I can fire that right back at you, these extreme left-wing fruitcakes think they're so morally superior their arrogance makes them think they're above criticism.

The rest of your post doesn't explain why you felt the need to berate the UK for things done two hundred years ago.   

[toast]

12 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

I can fire that right back at you, these extreme left-wing fruitcakes think they're so morally superior their arrogance makes them think they're above criticism.

We do have a left-wing fruitcake here in the thread? Who is it?

Quote

The rest of your post doesn't explain why you felt the need to berate the UK for things done two hundred years ago.   

I didn berated the UK, I took the UK government and the British Monarchy into question, see my related post here again:

Quote

You should address these 2 questions to your actual government and the majority of its voters in your country, not to me. But what do you think is the general and hidden mindset and agenda of the former and current leaders of your country, former known as The British Empire, that made its wealth through piracy some hundred years ago? Its time to end the monarchy by expropriation and invest the earned money into education for example. Repot the whole blue blooded gang to the Channel Islands, pay them a pension they can live on and a cook, a butler and a gardener. That would be a start, I would say.

As you can see and hopefully understand, my comment wasnt meant as an insult of the UK but the result of an analysis of the current situation over there including a proposal how to change the situation to the good.

[hetrodoxly]

2 minutes ago, toast said:

We do have a left-wing fruitcake here in the thread? Who is it?

The same place as the extreme right wing you keep talking about

 

3 minutes ago, toast said:

I didn berated the UK, I took the UK government and the British Monarchy into question, see my related post here again:

5 minutes ago, toast said:

The British Empire, that made its wealth through piracy some hundred years ago?

5 minutes ago, toast said:

 

What do you call this.

 

 

7 minutes ago, toast said:

Its time to end the monarchy

Mind your own business. 

[odas]

35 minutes ago, toast said:

 

As you can see and hopefully understand, 

See and understand? Don't count on it my friend.

[odas]

1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

I would like to if you would stop lying. Lets have a nice look at the big long list of people indicted to the Hague for war crimes in the former Yugoslavia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_indicted_in_the_International_Criminal_Tribunal_for_the_former_Yugoslavia

That big long list has Croatians on it, Serbians on it, Bosnians on it, Kosovans on it, all sides were at it. There are Presidents, Prime Ministers, Generals, and other people of noteworthy standing on that list. As for the Croatian Prime Minister Mr Tudjman he died of cancer before he could be brought to justice:

https://www.france24.com/en/20171217-un-court-exposes-uneasy-legacy-croatias-father-tudjman

No, not all. UK is missing for supporting the slaughter by Chetniks, Israel is missing for supplying weapons to the Chetniks, Russia is missing for supplying additional manpower to the Chetniks. France is missing for encouraging the slaughter by Chetniks.

 

[Duke Wellington]

5 minutes ago, odas said:

No, not all. UK is missing for supporting the slaughter by Chetniks, Israel is missing for supplying weapons to the Chetniks, Russia is missing for supplying additional manpower to the Chetniks. France is missing for encouraging the slaughter by Chetniks.

I seem to remember those `Chetniks` being the anti-Nazis in WW2.

We were at war versus Germany back then, you cannot blame us for using proxies to help bring down the Fuhrer. I know Croatia entered into an unholy alliance with him, but he was a real bad boy that needed doing.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Cookie Monster

[odas]

15 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

I seem to remember those `Chetniks` being the anti-Nazis in WW2.

We were at war versus Germany back then, you cannot blame us for using proxies to help bring down the Fuhrer. I know Croatia entered into an unholy alliance with him, but he was a real bad boy that needed doing.

You are mixing it up with (and I don't blame you because it is complex) the Royal Yugoslav Army that at first resisted the Nazis. Chetniks were the nationalstic serbian right wing fraction whose agenda was primarily to anex parts of Croatia and Bosnia. They colaborated with the Nazis but also used their influence in UK with the royals. The first real resistance, the Partizans, was created by Josip Broz Tito and Croatians. Later, many Serbs and Bosnians, members of the resolved Royal Army joined them. It is very complex.

The US was given fals information by UK in this matter but US was able to see thru this and started to support Tito. Only in 1944 UK did not have any other possibility but to do the same.

Simmilar happened in the Balkan wars.

Slovenia and Croatia had a referendum and the majority was for independents. Democraticly done. But Serbia sent the Yugoslav Army, now consisting only out of Serbs, to attack first Slovenia and then Croatia. One year later, there was another referendum in Bosnia where the majority again voted for independence in March of 1992. Immidiately we were overrun by, now openly the Chetnik Army.

Now, someone brought it up, what if Scotland declares by referendum and majority independance, would you send the Army?

[odas]

It is important to understand the difference between Croats and Ustasa, Serbians and Chetniks as well as Bosnian Muslims and Handzar. It takes some reading and understanding for non balkans, just as non British lack some understanding of the difference of  UK, GB and England.

[odas]

During the war in Bosnia, UK used and continued the Chetnik propaganda of "Bosnian Muslim Army" so that it sounds it is a innerfight by religious fractions. Ha. General Jovan Divjak, the General of the "muslim army" is a Serb (still well and alive ). 40% of this "muslim army" consisted out of Serbian orthodox and Croatian Catholics who were fighting the agressor, the Chetniks and the small bosnian croat nazi fraction in Bosnia, as well as the muslim nationalists lead by war criminal Fikret Abdic.

IF the UK, foremost, was honest and said the truth, that the war on the balkans was started by Serbia and Milosevic by agression on Independed States Croatia and Bosnia, the war would not have lasted 5 years.

There was way to much calculation and way to little truth and honesty and it still hounts us because justice is missing.

[Unusual Tournament]

On 5/1/2020 at 5:46 AM, toast said:

The tread title is nonsense because its not Merkel "to impose a new tax".

Even if Merkel was to impose a new european tax i can't see a problem if it means universal health. Maybe Europe needs to emulate Germany more in order to make a success of European integration.  

[Golden Duck]

16 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I know Brits have only vague idea of my part of the world so your attempt to mourn ex-Yugoslavia stank of Russian influence more than a skilled propagandist can afford.

Not even one kind word for Tito?

[Duke Wellington]

11 hours ago, odas said:

During the war in Bosnia, UK used and continued the Chetnik propaganda of "Bosnian Muslim Army" so that it sounds it is a innerfight by religious fractions. Ha. General Jovan Divjak, the General of the "muslim army" is a Serb (still well and alive ). 40% of this "muslim army" consisted out of Serbian orthodox and Croatian Catholics who were fighting the agressor, the Chetniks and the small bosnian croat nazi fraction in Bosnia, as well as the muslim nationalists lead by war criminal Fikret Abdic.

IF the UK, foremost, was honest and said the truth, that the war on the balkans was started by Serbia and Milosevic by agression on Independed States Croatia and Bosnia, the war would not have lasted 5 years.

There was way to much calculation and way to little truth and honesty and it still hounts us because justice is missing.

As I have already told you the UK did not take any specific side in the conflict.

We went in as part of a UN peace keeping force to stop war crimes. We dont care who fired the first shot, we were not that to decide which side had the moral high ground and which didnt. We went in to stop the genocide that all sides were engaging in.

[RoofGardener]

On 5/7/2020 at 6:58 PM, Helen of Annoy said:

The EU does not make laws for its members, all the members have own laws within their own countries, just as they did before and agree on these laws they want applied on the EU level. ......

That's not accurate, @Helen of Annoy. If the Council of Ministers issues a Directive, then all member states are obliged to integrate that directive into their national laws. 

Moreover, EU law over-rides National law within each individual countries courts . 

[Duke Wellington]

9 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

That's not accurate, @Helen of Annoy. If the Council of Ministers issues a Directive, then all member states are obliged to integrate that directive into their national laws. 

Moreover, EU law over-rides National law within each individual countries courts . 

There are numerous examples of us wanting to kick out Islamic Extremists for hate speech only for them to appeal to the EU Courts which then overruled us and forced us to let them stay.

EU law establishes European Courts as the highest Court in member states with their rulings and judgements being final.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Cookie Monster

[Helen of Annoy]

2 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Not even one kind word for Tito?

I have only objective words for Tito, but surprisingly (or not) some of them will definitely sound kind. 

He was efficient leader of the resistance. But he did order executions without trial after WWII and among disarmed soldiers, many civilians lost their lives in gruesome manner. (The number is disputed, of course, but as far as I could gather by now, the piles of corpses are almost identical on Nazi and Commie side, give or take few villages.)

Ex-Yugoslavia was kept together by his cult of personality. Once he died, the dissipation started. Downside is totalitarian and hypocrite society (I say hypocrite because you actually had those more equal than others), but the upside is that this society did pull many people out of unimaginable poverty and gave them a chance for perfectly acceptable standard of living, with free health, education, housing and employment. It was abused in many ways - no, not by lazy poor people - it was abused by the top of the Communist party, who started to turn the communism on paper into feudalism in practice. Etc. 

I won't forgive him many things, one of them is tolerating the greater Serbian elements, who quietly waited for their chance to turn their more equal status into open terror. He couldn't gather courage to scrub them out of existence. His friends abroad (their political descendants today are Brexiters) would never forgive him.

But he did make changes of ex-Yu constitution possible in early 1970's, which gave legal basis for actual equality of the constitutive nations and he slowly eased gulag practices. Though I still expect to be thrown into prison for speaking my mind  No, seriously, we were all taught from the earliest age to pay extreme care what we're saying in front of anyone. 

He wasn't the devil, in my opinion, but he was also very, very far from the icon propaganda wanted to project. 

The funniest thing is that there are people whom I clearly remember were literally pulling their hair in public display of despair when he died, only to become fierce capitalists and nationalists in just few short years. 

[Helen of Annoy]

25 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

That's not accurate, @Helen of Annoy. If the Council of Ministers issues a Directive, then all member states are obliged to integrate that directive into their national laws. 

Moreover, EU law over-rides National law within each individual countries courts . 

No, each member has own highest court (nomenclature differs) bring the exact legal definitions when and to what extent EU primacy applies.

The point is that it's mostly ritual, so some members choose to keep their constitutions above any other possible law, national or of the EU. 

It's not like the EU has the law that allows murdering idiots in the street on Thursdays and it overrides your national law that forbids such (possibly constructive) behaviour. 

We already have extremely similar laws and it's only logical the globalization will make us all function more similarly, in all aspects, justice, naturally, included.  

Possible conflict between national and the EU laws does not arise in everyday life, among sane people, it's always some attempt at financial scams and/or lunatics trying to prove something. 

 

Personally, I'm looking forward to the day when all the national laws will be in compliance with the EU laws, which is nothing special, so we've got one less paper obstacle. 

I just can't image what law is that, that you have and that would be threatened by the almost weirdly humanist EU.   

[Duke Wellington]

2 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I have only objective words for Tito, but surprisingly (or not) some of them will definitely sound kind. 

He was efficient leader of the resistance. But he did order executions without trial after WWII and among disarmed soldiers, many civilians lost their lives in gruesome manner. (The number is disputed, of course, but as far as I could gather by now, the piles of corpses are almost identical on Nazi and Commie side, give or take few villages.)

Ex-Yugoslavia was kept together by his cult of personality. Once he died, the dissipation started. Downside is totalitarian and hypocrite society (I say hypocrite because you actually had those more equal than others), but the upside is that this society did pull many people out of unimaginable poverty and gave them a chance for perfectly acceptable standard of living, with free health, education, housing and employment. It was abused in many ways - no, not by lazy poor people - it was abused by the top of the Communist party, who started to turn the communism on paper into feudalism in practice. Etc. 

I won't forgive him many things, one of them is tolerating the greater Serbian elements, who quietly waited for their chance to turn their more equal status into open terror. He couldn't gather courage to scrub them out of existence. His friends abroad (their political descendants today are Brexiters) would never forgive him.

But he did make changes of ex-Yu constitution possible in early 1970's, which gave legal basis for actual equality of the constitutive nations and he slowly eased gulag practices. Though I still expect to be thrown into prison for speaking my mind  No, seriously, we were all taught from the earliest age to pay extreme care what we're saying in front of anyone. 

He wasn't the devil, in my opinion, but he was also very, very far from the icon propaganda wanted to project. 

The funniest thing is that there are people whom I clearly remember were literally pulling their hair in public display of despair when he died, only to become fierce capitalists and nationalists in just few short years. 

You know what, you have my full sympathy because your countries recent history is such a mess. I kind of guess thats what happens when a union crumbles and things get nasty. I sympathise because of the complexity of Balkan history and the mess of wrongs done to this group and then that group, back and forth, that severely muddies the water. Whatever national traumas your area of the world has, they arent ours though.

You do realise that claims of Russian interference in the US Presidential Elections have no supporting evidence? You do realise that the US media hates Trump, constantly lies about him, and tries to destroy him? If you dont then the next time you hear something negative about Trump just go on YouTube and watch what he actually said. This is the reason you have many American UM members against you. Especially when you then use this as the basis to take the moral high ground with them. I think you mind find that they find you offensive.

Here in the UK we are not subjected to Russian propaganda or anti-EU hysteria in our media. Our media in the UK is wholly negative against Russia, against Brexit, and they hate Trump too. Many of our previous round of politicians were so bad that they even tried everything they could to stop us having the Brexit that we voted for. Even now we get daily stories of doom and gloom from those working with the EU to try and stop us exiting. And the EU is playing its own games by refusing to give us a simple plain free trade agreement.

Reality in the USA and reality in the UK are not what you have convinced yourself they are. Just like you have pointed out we arent from the Balkans so we dont know what we are talking about. You dont know what you are talking about with the USA and UK. Yet you persist in telling us and verbally insulting our countries. I suspect your own political biases are shaping your views too.

The American people made Trump their President because he had the policies they wanted. The British people have quite frankly always been against the EU. Originally we voted in a referendum to enter it because we thought we were getting a free trade agreement. But mission creep resulted in the EU wanting to be more than that.. We didnt and we dont want that, we want to be a free and independent sovereign nation that benefits from European trade.

Bearing in mind the fear mongering against Brexit in our media and by pro-EU politicians, bearing in mind that our referendum occurred when we had deep economic problems due to the 2008 banking crises, then we still voted to leave the EU. We dont want it, that is our democratic decision, and we have left. Its finished, over with, we are just waiting to see if we are going to be given a fair free trading agreement or if we are breaking clean from it.

If you think that will be an economic disaster for us then its your right to have that opinion. But it isn't your right to lecture us, to bad mouth us, to spread the lies and manipulations around that you have heard and which we know to be fake. Please respect our democracy, and the democracy of the USA. Mistakes or progressions are ours to make, not yours.

[odas]

5 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

As I have already told you the UK did not take any specific side in the conflict.

We went in as part of a UN peace keeping force to stop war crimes. We dont care who fired the first shot, we were not that to decide which side had the moral high ground and which didnt. We went in to stop the genocide that all sides were engaging in.

All sides genocide? History, Facts and the International War Crimes Tribunal proove you wrong. You have absolutely no clue and it does not make sense to continue any conversation with you. Case closed.

[spud the mackem]

22 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I don't hate Americans either, though they bombed my home town into fine dust at English request. Complete with my anti-fascist family house. I told you it was complex.

And for the love of multilingual god, stop expecting the EU to fail so you can prosper. It's false notion. The only reason why various Johnsons are praying for the failure of the EU is so their Brexit looks like less tragic mistake. 

The only logical course is that the EU and the UK have the best possible relations, like the UK didn't Brexit. Which kinda makes the whole Brexit... you know... I won't say stupid, but wise it certainly wasn't.  

Hi H , now I know why you don't like the U.S.A. , 

 Sorry about your house , its a good job you weren't in it .

I don't want the E.U.to fail , and they won't  but I hope that we can get along together , We had 2 P.M's who were  against  Brexit but the PEOPLE  not the Gov't decided that we had to leave ,and if we hadn't there would have been the biggest uprising in Britain since the Civil war and if we fail then we shall be the world's clowns , however failure is not an option ,as 3/4 of the world are now agreeing trade deals . this includes China and Russia . and to conclude ,more than half the British public are not stupid , I get the impression that you wanted us to stay and keep on paying Billions into the E.U. so I'm sorry to disappoint you ,because after 31st Dec '20 , we stop paying a net figure of £39 billion ,which means that the richest Countries in the E.U. have to find that money from some where . Best Wishes in your fight against Covid 19 . 

[spud the mackem]

22 hours ago, toast said:

For what reason should the EU grant the UK, for example, import tax reduction? It was very clear from the beginning on that a Brexit will also have influence on trading with the EU, so there no need to start crying now. You cannot leave the EU and keep the benefits of it, thats wishful thinking. 

Its not us that will be crying ,ask the Berlin Motor Werken , Audi and Volkswagon , and all the Electrical firms such as Bosch  exporting Freezers ,Fridges and Washing machines to the UK , If you don't want a Deal we can get this stuff from elsewhere. No Problem .

[Helen of Annoy]

25 minutes ago, spud the mackem said:

Hi H , now I know why you don't like the U.S.A. , 

 Sorry about your house , its a good job you weren't in it .

I don't want the E.U.to fail , and they won't  but I hope that we can get along together , We had 2 P.M's who were  against  Brexit but the PEOPLE  not the Gov't decided that we had to leave ,and if we hadn't there would have been the biggest uprising in Britain since the Civil war and if we fail then we shall be the world's clowns , however failure is not an option ,as 3/4 of the world are now agreeing trade deals . this includes China and Russia . and to conclude ,more than half the British public are not stupid , I get the impression that you wanted us to stay and keep on paying Billions into the E.U. so I'm sorry to disappoint you ,because after 31st Dec '20 , we stop paying a net figure of £39 billion ,which means that the richest Countries in the E.U. have to find that money from some where . Best Wishes in your fight against Covid 19 . 

spud, of course I weren't in it, I wasn't born yet. It's something from the WWII.

Which shouldn't have been mentioned in this thread at all, but it's consistent with Brexiter logic: when their lies are exposed, they start screeching about WWII. 

It ended 75 years ago. 

What did everyone do in the meantime? 75 years. A lifetime. Not only the participants are mostly dead, even some countries are gone by now.

World goes on. And it doesn't revolve around any country in particular.  

Does someone likes the US or not is not relevant. Facts are. The fact is, that country allowed Trump to end up a president. Enough said.   

And that person thinks Brexit is a good idea. Again, enough said. 

 

Thank you for your best wishes. My best wishes for you too. 

We're mostly done with that bug. We introduced strict measures as soon as the first cases appeared and now we're opening up because there're few cases a day and all vectors are known. Who knows what the future brings, but so far, so good - we flattened the bug  

[RoofGardener]

4 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

No, each member has own highest court (nomenclature differs) bring the exact legal definitions when and to what extent EU primacy applies.

The point is that it's mostly ritual, so some members choose to keep their constitutions above any other possible law, national or of the EU. 

It's not like the EU has the law that allows murdering idiots in the street on Thursdays and it overrides your national law that forbids such (possibly constructive) behaviour. 

We already have extremely similar laws and it's only logical the globalization will make us all function more similarly, in all aspects, justice, naturally, included.  

Possible conflict between national and the EU laws does not arise in everyday life, among sane people, it's always some attempt at financial scams and/or lunatics trying to prove something. 

 

Personally, I'm looking forward to the day when all the national laws will be in compliance with the EU laws, which is nothing special, so we've got one less paper obstacle. 

I just can't image what law is that, that you have and that would be threatened by the almost weirdly humanist EU.   

I believe you are mistaken ? 

1) The European Court over-rides all national courts

2) The Council can issue a Directive, often based on majority voting, that is binding on all members, and can ultimately be enforced by the European Court. 

It us unlikely that any country could be forced to adopt a Directive that is truly anathema to it. Partly because there are protections build in to the system (under certain circumstances, they can veto the Directive in the council). Unlikely, but possible.