Planet of the Humans

[tortugabob]

 

[Doug1029]

Michael Moore has some points.  The industrial green wash simply isn't getting the job done.

Doug

[tmcom]

Doug partially agreed with you or us, which is a miracle within itself, but l agree, no 100% new members drooling over others who look like an authority figure because they wrote something.

I would love to update the Climate Skeptics video, showing that Vic, or where l live is having the coldest start to winter for 50 years, But we both know the wheels are falling off more and more, and once C-19 is over, we can only laugh or show pity on the fools that keep believing in this rubbish, while the planet keeps breaking new cold records.

[Doug1029]

Just to let you know:  I won't be participating in this thread very much.  I think I have found a way to identify storm years in post oak rings, so I have to get a lot of datasets ready for when I go back to the office.  There is a bunch of storm years in the mid-18th century.  I would like to know why and if they had an effect on climate change.  Should be able to get most of the way back to 1300 AD.

Also, there is really no point in explaining anything to some of the folks here as they never bother to follow up anyway.  Tired of wasting my time.

Doug

[Essan]

15 hours ago, tmcom said:

....while the planet keeps breaking new cold records.

Indeed

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/apr/27/wa-heatwave-brings-record-late-season-temperatures-above-40c-to-pilbara

[Doug1029]

Completed the datasets for Arbuckle Mountain.  That's located along the Texas border just east of I-35.  This first step over-estimates the number of serious storms.  Got quite a list of them.

 

P.S.:  My daughter, the former oil company geologist, thinks she has found a new job right here in town.  Coming over tomorrow for an interview.

Doug

[Doug1029]

23 hours ago, Doug1029 said:

Completed the datasets for Arbuckle Mountain.  That's located along the Texas border just east of I-35.  This first step over-estimates the number of serious storms.  Got quite a list of them.

Arbuckle Mountain has a range from 1705 to 1974 and a useable range from 1770 to 1973.  There are 29 cores in the collection.  It is on the small side as Oklahoma chronologies go, neither is it all that old.  It can't go back far enough to show mid-18th century weather very well, but there are many others yet to look at.  Working on Neosho River today and tomorrow,

Doug

[jbondo]

20 hours ago, Doug1029 said:

Arbuckle Mountain has a range from 1705 to 1974 and a useable range from 1770 to 1973.  There are 29 cores in the collection.  It is on the small side as Oklahoma chronologies go, neither is it all that old.  It can't go back far enough to show mid-18th century weather very well, but there are many others yet to look at.  Working on Neosho River today and tomorrow,

Doug

Hmm, for someone who doesn't want to waste his time, you certainly are following up. LOL!

Suffice it to say, I'm interested in your theory on predicting future weather based on past tree growth rings. That is, if I read you correctly. Sounds sensible.

[Doug1029]

39 minutes ago, jbondo said:

Hmm, for someone who doesn't want to waste his time, you certainly are following up. LOL!

Suffice it to say, I'm interested in your theory on predicting future weather based on past tree growth rings. That is, if I read you correctly. Sounds sensible.

I am predicting past weather from tree rings.  It's called a "prediction" because we don't know what it was until we have a way to estimate, or predict, it.

I plan to publish this as a research paper,  Last time I came up with something like this, it was picked up by Dendrochronologia.  Maybe they'll like this one.  I have a "paper" in progress on Oklahoma climate change and it's effects on eastern red-cedar ground coverage.  It has been accepted as a poster, but that means no peer-review.  If it gets published that way, the journals may not be interested.  Need to think on this some morew.

Neosho River is still in progress.   Let you know more about it when I get it done.

Doug

[tortugabob]

Of course Doug won't be "wasting his time"  on this thread. One of the Left's sacred pontiffs, Michael Moore, has told the truth about the scams going on in the green energy field. Solar energy plants and windmills derelict and  abandoned by green energy con-artists.  Lots of coal needed  to make silicon based photovoltaic cells. Lots of coal to make cement. Strip mining the earth for precious metals needed for batteries.  Cutting down entire forests (and their CO2 reducing abilities) to feed the bio-mass energy generation plants. And in the process removing the ability of the land to absorb moisture.  Not to mention polluting the rivers.  Cutting off the top of mountains in Vermont to put up wind generators. And the people and companies involved like Goldman Sachs, Exxon and other big oil giants, the Koch Bros. and the slimy Al Gore (Talk about a huckster.)  It's all in the video for anyone to see.  But of course many of the true believers will say it is just a lie.

Edited May 6, 2020 by tortugabob

[tortugabob]

And Doug if you want to steer the conversation away from the video we can't stop you but to be honest no one gives a **** about your tree ring data.  These is nothing new about looking at past tree data and periodic cycles to project future cycles of cold or rain.  Start your own thread and tell us something new.

[Doug1029]

Like I said, Michael Moore has some points.  I think we will convert to wind power, but maybe not.  Windmill magnets require rare earths that are in short supply in the US.  Perovskites, on the other hand, are made from abundant materials, so it starts to look like solar will be challenging wind.  The problem is that neither is getting adopted fast enough.  I haven't checked out the prices recently, but perovskite solar should be very close to catching wind.

The real problem is the Great Pumpkin.  He and Moscow Mitch have managed to kill nearly every bill that would make any difference.  But, I think Trump is taking himself out with his handling of the covid19 pandemic.  About the middle of next year we can start thinking of environmental action again.

AND:  I didn't get done with the Neosho River chronology.  I'll keep working on that tomorrow.  AND:  putting dates and intensities on storms revealed in tree rings is new.  That's all I have to report on that today.  Catch you tomorrow when you will hopefully have posted something worth reading.

Doug

[tmcom]

5 hours ago, tortugabob said:

Of course Doug won't be "wasting his time"  on this thread. One of the Left's sacred pontiffs, Michael Moore, has told the truth about the scams going on in the green energy field. Solar energy plants and windmills derelict and  abandoned by green energy con-artists.  Lots of coal needed  to make silicon based photovoltaic cells. Lots of coal to make cement. Strip mining the earth for precious metals needed for batteries.  Cutting down entire forests (and their CO2 reducing abilities) to feed the bio-mass energy generation plants. And in the process removing the ability of the land to absorb moisture.  Not to mention polluting the rivers.  Cutting off the top of mountains in Vermont to put up wind generators. And the people and companies involved like Goldman Sachs, Exxon and other big oil giants, the Koch Bros. and the slimy Al Gore (Talk about a huckster.)  It's all in the video for anyone to see.  But of course many of the true believers will say it is just a lie.

Well you know Doug and the goon squad, we might p....s them off, with solid evidence, but they will just change the rules or go into goldfish mode, and forget it all, so at some future date we have to bring it all up again. The problem with S/W is it doesn't work, but the faithful grab anything to feel good about themselves, eventhough when all of the research is done, it doesn't really work. The impracticalities and scales make solar/wind a billionaires sock puppet, including battery farms.

Power generation needs to be inside or protected from the elements, (wasps love wind turbine generators) 24/7, cheap and reliable.

Coal does this and nuclear, and several other options that oil companies keep burying.

5 hours ago, tortugabob said:

And Doug if you want to steer the conversation away from the video we can't stop you but to be honest no one gives a **** about your tree ring data.  These is nothing new about looking at past tree data and periodic cycles to project future cycles of cold or rain.  Start your own thread and tell us something new.

Unfortunately any active thread here is prone to Dougs updates, eventhough as you and l have said he should stop self advertising and quoting his own posts and make a thread. Newbies might pray at his feet, but l don't see anyone else doing so.

"A Tree Wring Circus" might be a good heading?

[Doug1029]

16 hours ago, tortugabob said:

And Doug if you want to steer the conversation away from the video we can't stop you but to be honest no one gives a **** about your tree ring data.  These is nothing new about looking at past tree data and periodic cycles to project future cycles of cold or rain.  Start your own thread and tell us something new.

Tell you what:  I'll quit posting research information on this thread if ten people "like" the idea.  Ten likes and I agree.

But you could cool it with the mocking tone and flame baiting.  That would make me a lot more conducive to doing that because I really don't give a **** about your lack of science.

Doug

[Doug1029]

Well, Bob:  Three hours.  No likes.  So I guess I'm free to post tree ring info for a little while longer:

Completed the Neosho River chronology.  Range is 1675 to 1982,  Effective range is from 1756 to 1982,  It's a little better for what I want than Arbuckle Mountain was, but not all that great.  Neosho Lake is in the northeast corner of Oklahoma.  If it were any farther northeast it would be in Missouri.  Blue Stem Lake is next, then Keystone.  My daughter's place is just across the fence from Keystone.  Trees in her yard are part of the same stand.  Haven't decided any farther than that yet.

 

You puzzle me.  You seem to accept the accuracy of tree ring chronologies as regards weather and climate, but you also say you don't accept climate change.  How is that when lots of different proxies, including tree rings show that climate is changing?

Also, I don't understand your attitude toward Michael Moore's film.  He's absolutely right that we're going to need to get a lot more done and that big corporations have usurped the climate movement.  Business is pushing the cap-and-trade option as a fallback position in case they lose the first line defense.  The problem is that cap-and-trade doesn't work.  It does not reduce pollution - it just allows industry to move it around.  We need to start replacing polluting industries with clean ones.  We can convert the US and most of the world to WWS by 2050.  The US is almost a quarter of the way there now.

So what are you saying?  That the climate political movement isn't 100% pure?  Why would you expect them to be any different?  Are you saying that climate science isn't valid?  If so, show me some evidence.  Are you trying to say that my tree rings are wrong?  Are you trying to say that the red-cedar invasion isn't happening?  I don't understand your argument, if you even have one.

Doug

[micahc]

the problem is climate, and environmental debates have been taken over by right wing kooks, and left wing kooks.  The truth is, we should be moving away from fossil fuels because its smart.  pretend all you want, but they pollute and they are finite.  One day we will run out.  climate change is just a rallying cry for the kooks on both sides.  I think the earth is warming, and I am sure it will one day start cooling. Not sure humans will survive the warming cycle this time. based on the ice record this is the first warming trends humans will experience.  it seems to be accelerated this time based on CO2 levels.  As far as the planet is concerned, the best thing that could happen is our extinction.  we are not the planet. As George Carlin once said, the planet will be fine. we are going away.

[Doug1029]

On 5/7/2020 at 12:07 PM, Doug1029 said:

Well, Bob:  Three hours.  No likes.  So I guess I'm free to post tree ring info for a little while longer:

24 hours.  Still no likes.

But you're in luck.  I haven't finished Blue Stem Lake, yet, so there's nothing to report.  Probably be doing other things most of nest week, so there won't be much to report then, either.

But how about it?  What is your take on Michael Moore's film?

Doug

[+OverSword]

I'm only about 10 minutes in and decided it seems good enough to share.

 

 

 

[L.A.T.1961]

I have a plan to fix the problem - 

 

[spartan max2]

2 hours ago, OverSword said:

I'm only about 10 minutes in and decided it seems good enough to share.

 

 

 

Even if you absolutely hate Micheal Moore?

Asking for a friend 

[spartan max2]

On 5/7/2020 at 6:10 PM, micahc said:

the problem is climate, and environmental debates have been taken over by right wing kooks, and left wing kooks.  The truth is, we should be moving away from fossil fuels because its smart.  pretend all you want, but they pollute and they are finite.  One day we will run out.  climate change is just a rallying cry for the kooks on both sides.  I think the earth is warming, and I am sure it will one day start cooling. Not sure humans will survive the warming cycle this time. based on the ice record this is the first warming trends humans will experience.  it seems to be accelerated this time based on CO2 levels.  As far as the planet is concerned, the best thing that could happen is our extinction.  we are not the planet. As George Carlin once said, the planet will be fine. we are going away.

What I always tell people is that even if you don't think about climate change at all, you should still care want to change to more sustainable ways of life because of all the other reasons, like air quality, our oceans being polluted and drinking water, landfills filling up and plastic, etc.

[Doug1029]

2 hours ago, 19_Kilo said:

Actually he's right. Start your own thread on your tree ring work. You're basically hijacking this one.  And attacking his science knowledge just because he rightfully called you out is wrong too. Especially since he's correct about tree ring analysis for climate histrionics being old hat.

I think his10 likes are looking good. I contributed. Just on general principal since you're coming off pretty dooshey.

You're one.  Manwon Lender would probably make it two.  I thought there would be a lot more by now.

But you have an idea about a tree ring thread.  I'll think about it.

In the meantime, where is Bob?  I asked some serious questions about his views on Moore's film and he seems to have disappeared.  Is he even interested in this thread anymore?

Doug

[Doug1029]

3 hours ago, 19_Kilo said:

Actually he's right. Start your own thread on your tree ring work. You're basically hijacking this one.  And attacking his science knowledge just because he rightfully called you out is wrong too. Especially since he's correct about tree ring analysis for climate histrionics being old hat.

I think his10 likes are looking good. I contributed. Just on general principal since you're coming off pretty dooshey.

 

1 hour ago, Doug1029 said:

You're one.  Manwon Lender would probably make it two.  I thought there would be a lot more by now.

But you have an idea about a tree ring thread.  I'll think about it.

In the meantime, where is Bob?  I asked some serious questions about his views on Moore's film and he seems to have disappeared.  Is he even interested in this thread anymore?

Doug

I thought it over.  You're right.  This will be my last off-topic post on this thread.

I think an explanation is in order, though:  Bob has a long history of mocking and flame baiting my posts.  For that reason, I don't consider his posts to be particularly sacred and have no problem continuing what he started.  However, out of respect for the rest of you, I will cease posting off-topic materials here.

For the Mods:  why not add a button that would allow the OP to delete any posts they didn't like?  That way, Bob could just delete my posts and I could do the same with him on another thread?  Off-topic posting problem solved.

Doug

[+Razman]

Am I having Deja vu here , or did I just see this same thread somewhere else?

[+OverSword]

20 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Even if you absolutely hate Micheal Moore?

Asking for a friend 

I do hate MM.  And it’s not bad if you can handle doom and gloom. I made it about 40 minutes before I fell asleep and I didn’t see him once.