Free Speech.

[Duke Wellington]

19 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

I am one that's glad we are able to freely speak our minds. However, this is the very thing that allows our media to openly lie, subvert, and bastardize the truth based upon politics. So while free speech is wonderful, its also a major factor that is not allowing American to make decisions based on the true facts concerning the issues at hand. So in my opinion the media should be held to a higher standard that doesn't allow for these misrepresentations of the facts and the truth.

Peace

America needs libel laws so if a media source lies, and can be shown to have lied, they get sued.

[Peter B]

On 5/14/2020 at 11:41 AM, and then said:

In the past around here when a man insulted someone in public it didn't matter how much money he had.  If he got called out for it, he was going to publicly apologize or publicly be put down to one degree or another.  If you are thinking race played into it then you really don't understand the culture as much as you may believe.  If a black man did the insulting in public, especially in small towns prior to the civil rights era, he might well just go missing and never be seen again.  For that reason, it was damned RARE when a black man publicly insulted someone.

No, I make no claims to knowledge about Alabama culture. :-) That's why I was asking the question.

However I would like to politely call to your attention the fact that in one sentence you imply race wasn't an issue in these sorts of cases. But then in the next sentence you specifically suggest that a black man who did the insulting in those days then "he might well just go missing..." which in turn suggests this sort of thing didn't happen to white men who did the same thing. Pardon me for saying so, but doesn't that mean these sorts of cases had a racial element to them - that a white man could get away with something that a black man might not?

But please also note my original question mentioned social class as well as race. You made a statement about what happened in the past when people used insulting language. The purpose of my question was to find out from you whether all cases were treated identically, or if the social class or race of the two people concerned affected how a given situation might play out.

On 5/14/2020 at 11:41 AM, and then said:

No, my reference here wasn't about race hate.  Maybe I should have been more specific.  I was speaking of men who considered themselves of "equal standing" in the community.  If your outrage over race hate is about to vented on me, save yourself the time.  That was the generation BEFORE mine.  I never knew a time growing up where anyone forced segregation or attended Klan Rallies.  

Settle, Petal!

My question wasn't about race hate, it was about free speech. If you can point to anywhere where I've vented, please do so. Otherwise, you might like to save your energy by getting off your pre-emptive high horse.

You described an Alabama from a time before you, and I get that it's not the Alabama you live in now. I'd just like to learn more about the Old Ways, if you know much about it or about specific cases. For example, in most jurisdictions, more money means better lawyers. Did better lawyers help in cases like these, or did juries generally protect people who responded to provocative language regardless of the lawyers on both sides?

Plus, for the record, this isn't any attempt to parade the greatness of Australian justice in comparison to that of America, or the Deep South, or Alabama. We certainly have our blind spots when it comes to free speech, including: the legality (until the last decade or so) of Gay Panic defences against murder charges; the lack of any protection of free speech in legislation or the constitution; and the fairly low bar to prove defamation compared with other countries.

[+and-then]

15 hours ago, Peter B said:

which in turn suggests this sort of thing didn't happen to white men who did the same thing. Pardon me for saying so, but doesn't that mean these sorts of cases had a racial element to them - that a white man could get away with something that a black man might not?

Prior to the Civil rights era, that's absolutely correct.  We are far past that era now and we live together at least as well as other regions of the country.  The fact that black folks weren't considered equal and were more likely to suffer serious harm for the slightest indiscretion, does not mean that a white man who publicly insulted another white man had nothing to worry about.