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and then

A time without rule of law.What could happen?

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Tatetopa
7 minutes ago, and then said:

You seem to be willing to overlook the fact that the government in that state found it legal to open carry because we all have a 2A right to do so.  If they brandished them or threatened to use them then they'd be guilty of breaking a valid, reasonable law.  They didn't.  As I've said before, it isn't a choice I'd have  made in THIS circumstance because it muddies what the protest was supposed to bring attention to.  That does no one any good.  It even makes it possible for those who are trying to keep everything shut down, easier.  

Nope, I am not overlooking that at all. If it had been a 2A demonstration, that could be viewed as appropriate..  I agree with what you said.

The gist of what I am saying is that even if you happen to carry either concealed or open because of personal safety, then when you see others armed and wearing masks and flak jackets, you keep your eyes open.  It may be obvious to you, maybe their pot bellies give them away, but in the world we live in, they could also be terrorists of one sort or another.  If you are unarmed, your options are clear.

As  Gen Mattis once said, "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."    That advice was made for Iraq and Afghanistan.   If you don't have a good plan to take on 4 guys with rifles when you have a handgun and no quick draw practice, then Plan B is stay out of the line of fire, just as you would if your are unarmed.

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Tatetopa
22 minutes ago, and then said:

You seem to be willing to overlook the fact that the government in that state found it legal to open carry because we all have a 2A right to do so.  If they brandished them or threatened to use them then they'd be guilty of breaking a valid, reasonable law.  They didn't.  As I've said before, it isn't a choice I'd have  made in THIS circumstance because it muddies what the protest was supposed to bring attention to.  That does no one any good. 

A further comment is that when times do get lawless people better be real polite and above board.  You take a lot fewer chances when you can't trust anybody.  And that is what lawless times will mean.  Everybody you meet  will either follow a protocol or be suspect.

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Manwon Lender
On 5/5/2020 at 10:45 PM, aztek said:

i believe the result would be completely different than we imagine. 

In what way?

Peace

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the13bats
9 hours ago, and then said:

No they shouldn't be allowed to "storm" anything.  Can you explain what constitutes "storming" in your mind?  When I hear that term, it makes me think of active attack and exchange of gunfire while attempting to take an armed position.  

You asked my opinion on how i define "storming/storm" it seems mundain but flattering so here you go....

"Srorming/storm" isnt just one pigeon holing dedefinition for me, it could be a big hurricane or a little windy shower,

Using it to describe peoples actions it could be how you describe it or it could be how i used it a small group of angry, yelling gun carrying mixed agenda protesters, some displaying symbols of hate others yelling things like "if you dont_______we will do it for you" trying to enter into parts of a building they are not being allowed, 

 

Here  you go. Im comfortable using storm as i did.

storm
[stôrm]
NOUN
  1. a violent disturbance of the atmosphere with strong winds and usually rain, thunder, lightning, or snow.
    synonyms:
    tempest · squall · gale · 
  2. a tumultuous reaction; an uproar or controversy.
    "the book caused a storm in South America" · 
    synonyms:
    uproar · commotion · 
  3. NORTH AMERICAN
    (storms)
    storm windows.
  4. a direct assault by troops on a fortified place.
    synonyms:
    assault · attack · 

 

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)

This is an interesting thread, the purpose of carrying a hand gun openly holstered I can understand, and where the protest occurred it is legal. But shot guns and other rifles that's not protesting that I meant as nothing but an act of shear intimidation. Some of the Protesters came dressed as Para-military Groups, I personally find their actions and the way they look laughable.:lol: They look like the bunch of good old boys from the reality series hunting Bigfoot.:P But, I am just glad it turned out like it did, because it could have easily turned into a shooting match. Whenever people get that excited and they are carrying guns mistakes can easily happen, and the tragedy in that is that unarmed protesters would have been caught in the crossfire and possible killed. :( 

protestors mich1.jpg

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Manwon Lender
On 5/8/2020 at 1:58 PM, aztek said:

no surprises here, those are areas populated by certain culture who commits vastly unproportional amount of crime,.

i lived thru 2007 blackout, it was nothing close to that, sure some stores were looted, but it was a rare occurrence, no riots,  widespread vandalism, no skyhigh jump in crime,  complete opposite to 1977

When you say above a certain  "CULTURE WHO COMMITTS VASTLY  UNPROPORTIAL AMOUNTS OF CRIMES" who are you exactly speaking about minorities? Don't hide your true thoughts, well I guess that's wrongs because you didn't hide your true thoughts even though you tried to do so. :no:^_^

Peace

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TigerBright19
Posted (edited)

First step should be to ban the sale of toy guns, bows and arrows, catapults, plastic swords, and rubber knives.  Never understood the point of having toy weapons for kids.  Pretending to injure and kill someone is apparently fun?  They end up becoming so accustomed and conditioned to like their weapons so much that they end up buying and fooling around with the real thing.  They banned the sale of fake cigarettes for kids.  Can't they do the same with toy weapons?  At least it would be a step in the right direction.

 

 

Edited by Aaron2017

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Desertrat56
44 minutes ago, Aaron2017 said:

First step should be to ban the sale of toy guns, bows and arrows, catapults, plastic swords, and rubber knives.  Never understood the point of having toy weapons for kids.  Pretending to injure and kill someone is apparently fun?  They end up becoming so accustomed and conditioned to like their weapons so much that they end up buying and fooling around with the real thing.  They banned the sale of fake cigarettes for kids.  Can't they do the same with toy weapons?  At least it would be a step in the right direction.

 

 

Yes, my dad agreed, though my brother was given a cap gun when he was 6, but the rule was he must never point it at any person or animal when he was playing with it.  He preferred taking the caps and popping them on the sidewalk with a hammer.  My dad had already taught us gun safety and how to shoot his 22.  Once my cousin who was 5 came to visit and he had just gotten a cap gun.  He pointed it at my dad and my dad grabbed it, and destroyed it, saying you never point a toy gun at anyone in my house.  My cousin cried but his dad did not dare say anything to my dad.  That cousin lived in a wild house, the children were not taught anything unless some adult besides their parents taught them.

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Big Jim
3 hours ago, Aaron2017 said:

First step should be to ban the sale of toy guns, bows and arrows, catapults, plastic swords, and rubber knives.  Never understood the point of having toy weapons for kids.  Pretending to injure and kill someone is apparently fun?  They end up becoming so accustomed and conditioned to like their weapons so much that they end up buying and fooling around with the real thing.  They banned the sale of fake cigarettes for kids.  Can't they do the same with toy weapons?  At least it would be a step in the right direction.

 

 

Kids, especially boys, will invent their own weapons to play with.  The toys are just filling a desire that is already present.  As a kid I had toy guns, bows and arrows, swords, all kinds of stuff.  We, meaning every kid on the block, would also throw mudballs, make spears from weed stalks, and point fingers if necessary.  We played cops and robbers, cowboys and Indians and combat games.  But, as an adult I have never owned a weapon.  I don't like them, but that's my personal opinion.  I support others' rights to have them because it's in the Constitution of the country I was born into.  It's not for me to pick and choose among the Bill of Rights.  

Banning them would accomplish nothing.  Boy will be boys.  Banning products has never been known to ban behaviors associated with those products.  It's been tried with alcohol, drugs, pornography, and weapons for certain classes of people.  Even fake cigarettes, but it didn't stop kids from smoking.  Needs and desires will find a way to be met.  In many cases, like myself, it is probably better to satisfy curiosity with toy guns than to stifle it until the only option is a real gun.

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razman

Honestly , weapons allowed at a protest can be a recipie for disaster.

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acidhead
4 hours ago, Aaron2017 said:

First step should be to ban the sale of toy guns, bows and arrows, catapults, plastic swords, and rubber knives.  Never understood the point of having toy weapons for kids.  Pretending to injure and kill someone is apparently fun?  They end up becoming so accustomed and conditioned to like their weapons so much that they end up buying and fooling around with the real thing.  They banned the sale of fake cigarettes for kids.  Can't they do the same with toy weapons?  At least it would be a step in the right direction.

 

 

Banning stuff creates an underground market.  Under your proposed law banning toy guns and knives what prevents the individual from making a toy paper gun or a toy wooden knife?

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TigerBright19
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Big Jim said:

Kids, especially boys, will invent their own weapons to play with.  The toys are just filling a desire that is already present.  As a kid I had toy guns, bows and arrows, swords, all kinds of stuff.  We, meaning every kid on the block, would also throw mudballs, make spears from weed stalks, and point fingers if necessary.  We played cops and robbers, cowboys and Indians and combat games.  But, as an adult I have never owned a weapon.  I don't like them, but that's my personal opinion.  I support others' rights to have them because it's in the Constitution of the country I was born into.  It's not for me to pick and choose among the Bill of Rights.  

Banning them would accomplish nothing.  Boy will be boys.  Banning products has never been known to ban behaviors associated with those products.  It's been tried with alcohol, drugs, pornography, and weapons for certain classes of people.  Even fake cigarettes, but it didn't stop kids from smoking.  Needs and desires will find a way to be met.  In many cases, like myself, it is probably better to satisfy curiosity with toy guns than to stifle it until the only option is a real gun.

I never had childhood friends who lived close by to play with so there was no reason to mimic violent scenes on other people.  After all, what use is a weapon without an opponent to use it on?  I just grew up without the incentive to play with toy weapons.  I bought them because they were cheap and seeing a shiny gun on the toy shelf was too enticing, but like most toys they were just thrown under the bed and forgotten about within 10 minutes of taking them home.  The simple solution to cure the unhealthy desire that children have to play with toy weapons would be to remove the child's original desire to play with them in the first place i.e. If they want to mimic what they see on TV then remove the show that is inciting them to mimic violent scenes in real life.  Monkey see, monkey do and all that.  TV shows that incited racism without intent were heavily edited, or banned altogether so that modern audiences could not be influenced by them.  The same should apply to protect children so that a large percentage of them do not grow up with the desire to play with toy weapons.  If the government were to heavily restrict all TV shows, films, and video games that show violence, and also ban the sale and production of toy weapons, then ultimately future generations of children may grow up without any desire to simulate violent scenes and perhaps many of them will not have the desire to hold the real McCoy one day because of they won't have the same eager curiosity that past generations of children had.

When I was a kid I disliked everything that was violent.  e.g.  I watched the Star Wars trilogy films but I only enjoyed the scenes that were non-violent.  I even had a huge collection of Star Wars figures, but I never had the toys kill each other.  I just imagined Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker were having a nice time at the Cantina, meeting friends, and discussing daily events.  Having them kill each other was the last thing on my mind.  Even when I began to play video games like Grand Theft Auto (original) I enjoyed driving around the city and just admired the sights and sounds that the game offered.  Playing an actual mission were I had to kill people was incredibly discomforting and I don't recall doing any main missions in the game because of it.  As long as I can remember when I played a video game that required violent acts, I would always reset the game afterwards so that I could have peace of mind knowing that all of the characters that were killed were alive again.  So from personal experience - removing violence at an early age does have a long and lasting effect into adulthood.

If fewer people die, then what is the harm in giving it a try?  Protecting life should be every government's principle objective.

 

 

Edited by Aaron2017

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Festina
Posted (edited)

The RULE of the laws of Moses  Vs. The NATURAL Laws of the Universe.?

I See great possibilities! 

End the Spell. 

Edited by Festina

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Festina
Posted (edited)
On 5/4/2020 at 10:51 PM, Manwon Lender said:

I agree that there is way too much lawless behavior in the United States these days. That's why when I am in the country I always carry concealed, I just don't feel comfortable anymore. I also know I am not alone when it comes to feeling this way, many Americans do exactly the same thing I do and for the same reason. But, with that said I still wonder how many could kill if they had to, and that's a completely different story. For those who carry concealed and are not sure if they can kill its best to not carry at all, because when you are placed in a situation where you must protect yourself or your loved ones there is no room for hesitation, if you hesitate your weapon could be taken away from you and used against you.

Peace

Without crime the Mosaic [Moses] Judicial, Judiciary, Judges and Juries systems become bankrupt.  See? Most so called crimes end.  Wars end.  Popular Religions end.  Confusion ends.  Etc, etc,etc. 

No crime, no profit.  Cause and effect. 

:yes:

Edited by Festina
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Festina
Posted (edited)

Moved comment to previous post....

Edited by Festina

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Big Jim
1 hour ago, Aaron2017 said:

I never had childhood friends who lived close by to play with so there was no reason to mimic violent scenes on other people.  After all, what use is a weapon without an opponent to use it on?  I just grew up without the incentive to play with toy weapons.  I bought them because they were cheap and seeing a shiny gun on the toy shelf was too enticing, but like most toys they were just thrown under the bed and forgotten about within 10 minutes of taking them home.  The simple solution to cure the unhealthy desire that children have to play with toy weapons would be to remove the child's original desire to play with them in the first place i.e. If they want to mimic what they see on TV then remove the show that is inciting them to mimic violent scenes in real life.  Monkey see, monkey do and all that.  TV shows that incited racism without intent were heavily edited, or banned altogether so that modern audiences could not be influenced by them.  The same should apply to protect children so that a large percentage of them do not grow up with the desire to play with toy weapons.  If the government were to heavily restrict all TV shows, films, and video games that show violence, and also ban the sale and production of toy weapons, then ultimately future generations of children may grow up without any desire to simulate violent scenes and perhaps many of them will not have the desire to hold the real McCoy one day because of they won't have the same eager curiosity that past generations of children had.

When I was a kid I disliked everything that was violent.  e.g.  I watched the Star Wars trilogy films but I only enjoyed the scenes that were non-violent.  I even had a huge collection of Star Wars figures, but I never had the toys kill each other.  I just imagined Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker were having a nice time at the Cantina, meeting friends, and discussing daily events.  Having them kill each other was the last thing on my mind.  Even when I began to play video games like Grand Theft Auto (original) I enjoyed driving around the city and just admired the sights and sounds that the game offered.  Playing an actual mission were I had to kill people was incredibly discomforting and I don't recall doing any main missions in the game because of it.  As long as I can remember when I played a video game that required violent acts, I would always reset the game afterwards so that I could have peace of mind knowing that all of the characters that were killed were alive again.  So from personal experience - removing violence at an early age does have a long and lasting effect into adulthood.

If fewer people die, then what is the harm in giving it a try?  Protecting life should be every government's principle objective.

 

 

So you're a born pacifist.  Good for you.  But kids have played with toy weapons since before there was TV and video games.  There will always be rocks and sticks.  I believe it is in the nature of males of any species to test each other in play combat.  Puppies and kittens do it.  So do bulls and rams and elephants and nearly everything else in farm or zoo.  As I pointed out in my earlier post, it doesn't always lead to aggressiveness in the adult.  As kids, we all knew we were playing.  We knew the difference between TV and real life.  Myself, I abhor violence.  I don't own or want a gun.  I have my limit in movies and TV.  An invisible line between acceptable and forbidden levels of violence.  I can't tell you where it is but I know when I've crossed it and I will turn something off immediately if it offends my sensibilities.  The differences between you and I seem to be ones of degree more than substance.  

But I don't believe censorship is the way.  I censor myself.  That's where my rights end.  I decide what I will let into my eyes and mind and life.  Give that task to the government and there's no telling where it will end.  We'd all be safer if everyone wore mittens all the time.  Safer still if we stayed in our rooms.  Even safer if only the government could decide when we could come out and who we could see.  Do not expect governments to handle power with sense or restraint.  The Founding Fathers had first hand experience dealing with absolute power in the hands of one man. That is why they set up a system to protect us from the government and not from ourselves.

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Big Jim
1 hour ago, Festina said:

Without crime the Mosaic [Moses] Judicial, Judiciary, Judges and Juries systems become bankrupt.  See? Most so called crimes end.  Wars end.  Popular Religions end.  Confusion ends.  Etc, etc,etc. 

No crime, no profit.  Cause and effect. 

:yes:

So how do you eliminate crime?

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TigerBright19
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

So you're a born pacifist.  Good for you.  But kids have played with toy weapons since before there was TV and video games.  There will always be rocks and sticks.  I believe it is in the nature of males of any species to test each other in play combat.  Puppies and kittens do it.  So do bulls and rams and elephants and nearly everything else in farm or zoo.  As I pointed out in my earlier post, it doesn't always lead to aggressiveness in the adult.  As kids, we all knew we were playing.  We knew the difference between TV and real life.  Myself, I abhor violence.  I don't own or want a gun.  I have my limit in movies and TV.  An invisible line between acceptable and forbidden levels of violence.  I can't tell you where it is but I know when I've crossed it and I will turn something off immediately if it offends my sensibilities.  The differences between you and I seem to be ones of degree more than substance.  

But I don't believe censorship is the way.  I censor myself.  That's where my rights end.  I decide what I will let into my eyes and mind and life.  Give that task to the government and there's no telling where it will end.  We'd all be safer if everyone wore mittens all the time.  Safer still if we stayed in our rooms.  Even safer if only the government could decide when we could come out and who we could see.  Do not expect governments to handle power with sense or restraint.  The Founding Fathers had first hand experience dealing with absolute power in the hands of one man. That is why they set up a system to protect us from the government and not from ourselves.

It could be a genetic instinct that is passed down to each generation e.g. I grew up believing that women were made to serve men.  Nobody told me to think like that as a child.  It just seemed to be a natural instinctive way to think and as a result I rarely took any advice given by women because they were considered to be inferior and man was superior.  It wasn't until I began my first relationship in my 20's that I changed my opinion of women and no longer treated them as the weaker sex.  With proper education I think I could have reached that conclusion at a much earlier age.  This is why I believe teachers should be discouraging kids to purchase and play with toy weapons.  Too often we have seen teenagers fooling around with real guns and causing fatal accidents because they are too immature to handle them properly due to their overexposure to toy weapons and violence in films, games, and TV.  Kids today are bound to be overexposed to most things that are well beyond their understanding.

 

Edited by Aaron2017

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Festina
44 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

So how do you eliminate crime?

Expose the the truth about life, death and the reason we are here — High knowledge.

We live in a world ruled by lies and stealing. Anyone who denies this simply tells another lie — or is sorely mistaken; ignorant.  It was not always this way. 

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Desertrat56
17 minutes ago, Aaron2017 said:

It could be a genetic instinct that is passed down to each generation e.g. I grew up believing that women were made to serve men.  Nobody told me to think like that as a child.  It just seemed to be a natural instinctive way to think and as a result I rarely took any advice given by women because they were considered to be inferior and man was superior.

That is Not genetic it is taught and usually no one says it out loud, actions speak louder than words.  How did your male authority figure treat your female authority figure?  I am betting it was constant denigration and belittlement, and it was not talked about, it was just acted out.

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Festina
2 hours ago, Aaron2017 said:

I never had childhood friends who lived close by to play with so there was no reason to mimic violent scenes on other people.  After all, what use is a weapon without an opponent to use it on?  I just grew up without the incentive to play with toy weapons.  I bought them because they were cheap and seeing a shiny gun on the toy shelf was too enticing, but like most toys they were just thrown under the bed and forgotten about within 10 minutes of taking them home.  The simple solution to cure the unhealthy desire that children have to play with toy weapons would be to remove the child's original desire to play with them in the first place i.e. If they want to mimic what they see on TV then remove the show that is inciting them to mimic violent scenes in real life.  Monkey see, monkey do and all that.  TV shows that incited racism without intent were heavily edited, or banned altogether so that modern audiences could not be influenced by them.  The same should apply to protect children so that a large percentage of them do not grow up with the desire to play with toy weapons.  If the government were to heavily restrict all TV shows, films, and video games that show violence, and also ban the sale and production of toy weapons, then ultimately future generations of children may grow up without any desire to simulate violent scenes and perhaps many of them will not have the desire to hold the real McCoy one day because of they won't have the same eager curiosity that past generations of children had.

When I was a kid I disliked everything that was violent.  e.g.  I watched the Star Wars trilogy films but I only enjoyed the scenes that were non-violent.  I even had a huge collection of Star Wars figures, but I never had the toys kill each other.  I just imagined Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker were having a nice time at the Cantina, meeting friends, and discussing daily events.  Having them kill each other was the last thing on my mind.  Even when I began to play video games like Grand Theft Auto (original) I enjoyed driving around the city and just admired the sights and sounds that the game offered.  Playing an actual mission were I had to kill people was incredibly discomforting and I don't recall doing any main missions in the game because of it.  As long as I can remember when I played a video game that required violent acts, I would always reset the game afterwards so that I could have peace of mind knowing that all of the characters that were killed were alive again.  So from personal experience - removing violence at an early age does have a long and lasting effect into adulthood.

If fewer people die, then what is the harm in giving it a try?  Protecting life should be every government's principle objective.

 

 

Thank you.  

Do you identify with any religion?  Were you raised in a religious teaching?  Any influence?  

The Abrahamic religions are in there essence malevolently violent, misogynist  and war mongering.  Albeit at times somewhat occult — Hidden.  

Subliminal influence. 

 

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Festina
Posted (edited)
On 5/11/2020 at 3:38 PM, Aaron2017 said:

First step should be to ban the sale of toy guns, bows and arrows, catapults, plastic swords, and rubber knives.  Never understood the point of having toy weapons for kids.  Pretending to injure and kill someone is apparently fun?  They end up becoming so accustomed and conditioned to like their weapons so much that they end up buying and fooling around with the real thing.  They banned the sale of fake cigarettes for kids.  Can't they do the same with toy weapons?  At least it would be a step in the right direction.

 

 

A First step is revealing the nature of the so called LORD god of Israel, a tribal chthonic war god. Like it or not his name is emblazoned  on our currency  and is reflected in our laws — SCOTUS — they are his Laws.  ‘Moses’ graven Image is emblazoned on the the facade of the Supreme Court building.  This has an effect on the consciousness of humans — believers and non-believers. It matters. It’s a certain kind of Magic — Abracadabra. 

 

Playing with toy toy weapons does not make children violent.  However, malevolent bloodthirsty misogynist religious teachings can certainly have this effect.  

I’m not remotely ‘religious’.  No bias in this regard. I treat them all the same — discernment. 

 

Edited by Festina
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Big Jim
1 hour ago, Aaron2017 said:

This is why I believe teachers should be discouraging kids to purchase and play with toy weapons. 

Does the news not reach where you live?  Kids are suspended and expelled for merely drawing pictures of guns.  One 5 year old was disciplined for chewing his pop tart in the shape of a gun.  Just pointing fingers like a pistol will get a kid in trouble.  The level of discouragement couldn't be higher.

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Big Jim
58 minutes ago, Festina said:

Expose the the truth about life, death and the reason we are here — High knowledge.

I could recommend a neighborhood or two where I'd like to see you try this approach.  Be sure to have an armed escort in case the locals don't take to it right away.

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Desertrat56
12 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Does the news not reach where you live?  Kids are suspended and expelled for merely drawing pictures of guns.  One 5 year old was disciplined for chewing his pop tart in the shape of a gun.  Just pointing fingers like a pistol will get a kid in trouble.  The level of discouragement couldn't be higher.

My grandson made a sword out of a paper plate in art class when he was 4 and was disciplined for it at day care.  Yep, it is already discouraged no matter if it is a drawing or semblance of any weapon.

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