Does God expect to be worshipped by humans?

[BEAR-CUB]

Hello. Today I would like to question the idea of worshiping god, hopefully it will result in a debate by people of different or no faith. My understanding of ‘god’ is that ‘god’ is a perfect being, who looks at every subject from every conceivable angle before passing judgment, it is never guilty of emotionally charged knee-jerk reactions. An entity that has provided all life-forms with tools needed to survive on the physical plane. The above are just 2 examples of a ‘perfect’ being (god). On the other hand I have asked myself “What is a imperfect being?”; after debating this with myself, I arrived at the following conclusions: a imperfect being is someone who is a narcissist, arrogant, and egotistical; yet these 3 descriptions are typical to be found in people who demand to be worshipped; therefore if god demands to be worshipped as mainstream religious leaders would have us believe, then god cannot be a perfect being, therefore cannot be god, as narcissism, arrogance, and ego are flaws, as religions preach. Therefore I believe that ‘worshiping god is a human-construct, not god’s instructions to humans. Considering all of the above points,  I have arrived at my own conclusion that ‘God doesn’t  demand or expect to be worshipped’. I was raised by a mother who is a follower of a Indian spiritual path, not a religion; according to instructions to followers, we are not expected to worship god; instead we engage in transcendental meditation for the purpose of establishing a spiritual connection with god. I have set the ball in motion, now it’s on your side of the court, therefore upto you to argue your case. 

[+Desertrat56]

I agree with your definitions and agree that a perfect, omnipotent being would not expect or want to be worshiped.

 

[zep73]

I think Jewish folklore (the old testament) is pretty clear about that. Yes. The fantasy figure, they call Yahweh, expects worship.

Question is, would we have any monotheism (single god belief) if it hadn't been for the Jews? Or would polytheism be the standard delusion?

Edited May 6, 2020 by sci-nerd

[hetrodoxly]

The short answer is we don't know, there could be a God and no afterlife, there could be afterlife and no God, it could be the old chestnut we're an experiment in a 13 year old girls bedroom and she expects to be worshiped and if we don't she'll pour us down the toilet as she did the last time, we call it the big bang. 

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, FART-EXTERMINATOR said:

 Therefore I believe that ‘worshiping god is a human-construct, not god’s instructions to humans.

I agree with the above sentence as it sums it up well. A progression of human sophistication moves things from dualistic (God and creation/us are two) to non-dualistic (God/Brahman/Fundamental Consciousness and creation/us are not-two). In dualistic thought as in mainstream Abrahamic religions, God is typically revered and worshipped. In non-dualistic thought, the one God/Brahman/ Consciousness animates all living things so the goal for us is then to Self-Realize/God-Realize our ultimate nature. 

I have gone from dualist to atheist to non-dualist in the progression of thought through my own lifetime. My goal now is not to worship an external God but to realize the eternal God within me.

Edited May 6, 2020 by papageorge1

[Piney]

2 hours ago, FART-EXTERMINATOR said:

I was raised by a mother who is a follower of a Indian spiritual path, not a religion; according to instructions to followers, we are not expected to worship god; instead we engage in transcendental meditation for the purpose of establishing a spiritual connection with god. I have set the ball in motion, now it’s on your side of the court, therefore upto you to argue your case. 

I was raised in the Shaman-Chief caste and taught that the higher power was the Living Universe, we were nothing special and just a speck and to "acknowledge". 

My stepfather was a Tendai Buddhist, as am I and was taught by his father to become part of this Living Universe through focal meditation. 

I don't meditate anymore. Instead I do my sword forms to "find the harmony". 

[Guyver]

2 hours ago, FART-EXTERMINATOR said:

Hello. Today I would like to question the idea of worshiping god, hopefully it will result in a debate by people of different or no faith. My understanding of ‘god’ is that ‘god’ is a perfect being, who looks at every subject from every conceivable angle before passing judgment, it is never guilty of emotionally charged knee-jerk reactions. An entity that has provided all life-forms with tools needed to survive on the physical plane. The above are just 2 examples of a ‘perfect’ being (god). On the other hand I have asked myself “What is a imperfect being?”; after debating this with myself, I arrived at the following conclusions: a imperfect being is someone who is a narcissist, arrogant, and egotistical; yet these 3 descriptions are typical to be found in people who demand to be worshipped; therefore if god demands to be worshipped as mainstream religious leaders would have us believe, then god cannot be a perfect being, therefore cannot be god, as narcissism, arrogance, and ego are flaws, as religions preach. Therefore I believe that ‘worshiping god is a human-construct, not god’s instructions to humans. Considering all of the above points,  I have arrived at my own conclusion that ‘God doesn’t  demand or expect to be worshipped’. I was raised by a mother who is a follower of a Indian spiritual path, not a religion; according to instructions to followers, we are not expected to worship god; instead we engage in transcendental meditation for the purpose of establishing a spiritual connection with god. I have set the ball in motion, now it’s on your side of the court, therefore upto you to argue your case. 

I agree.

However, I’m just having a hard time getting past the username you chose for the forum.  Fart Exterminator?  Really?

You could have been fart sniffer, or fart expeller, but you chose fart exterminator.  I just don’t get it. FWIW

[BEAR-CUB]

39 minutes ago, Tuco's Gas said:

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

I totally agree with your sentiment. Judging by human history, I consider the bullies of religions to be advocates of Christianity, Catholicism, and Islam. Huge swathes of people believe out fear of eternal damnation, because they have been indoctrinated by ungodly leaders with a ungodly agenda. 

[BEAR-CUB]

2 minutes ago, Guyver said:

I agree.

However, I’m just having a hard time getting past the username you chose for the forum.  Fart Exterminator?  Really?

You could have been fart sniffer, or fart expeller, but you chose fart exterminator.  I just don’t get it. FWIW

I’m also a Fart-Exterminator by profession, I’m self-employed. Just kidding. No seriously, the username is in part a reflection of my immaturity; another reason for my chosen username is that was looking for a username that would stand-out, and make people laugh. 

[Commander CMG]

What @Piney said.. he knows me better than anyone. 

[Alchopwn]

2 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

Question is, would we have any monotheism (single god belief) if it hadn't been for the Jews? Or would polytheism be the standard delusion?

There is a lot of lurking monotheism in polytheism.  In Hinduism, for example, the three faces of God, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, all derive their energy from Brahma, the supreme Godhead, and every other deity does too.  Is that back-door monotheism?  I think so.  Yahweh is, for example merely one of the Elohim (Sons of El Elyon), who were the original pantheon of the Semitic peoples.  There are in fact idols and depictions of Yahweh from his time as a member of a pantheon.  During the reign of Emperor Elagabalus in Rome, he converted the Roman Empire to the worship of El Gabaal, which was the first Monotheist state religion in Europe.  El Gabaal was another name/title for El Elyon. 

There seems to have been an ideological push to convert everyone to a single ideological system, as a means of uniting the empire. The worship of El Gabaal eventually became rebranded as the more Roman sounding Sol Invictus, but eventually they also rebranded Yeshua Ben Yusuf as Jesus for the same reason.

Really the first big monotheist religion however was Zoroastrianism, which informed Judaism and made it monotheist instead of henotheist during the Babylonian Captivity.  Remember the Pharisees?  That word has its root in the word Parsees which refers to the Persians, who were also the Magi, and you probably remember them as the three wise men who came to Jesus' birth.  The Roman worship of Mithra also came via Persia too.  There is a large and somewhat hidden Zoroastrian thread running thru modern monotheist ideas and religions.

One might argue that most tribes had a single deity, and they only became a pantheon when tribes were conquered or confederated.  On the other hand, notions like Mother Earth/Father Sun are also very old. 

I think the Ancient Chinese were the most original thinkers of the lot, and were the first people to identify an impersonal principle as the force behind the universe, i.e. the Tao.  While not science, it is a lot closer than the other guesses.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Alchopwn

[Guyver]

25 minutes ago, FART-EXTERMINATOR said:

I’m also a Fart-Exterminator by profession, I’m self-employed. Just kidding. No seriously, the username is in part a reflection of my immaturity; another reason for my chosen username is that was looking for a username that would stand-out, and make people laugh. 

Ok.

Yeah...in my mind the word “fart” ceases to be truly funny after what....10 or 11 years of age?  But whatever, fart is funny to you.

In my mind fart whatever as part of your username is crass and actually insulting to the forum.  And I’ve noticed that you bonded FART too....like look at me.....I’m a big fart hahaha!  
 

IDK.  It just seems to me that if you like the word fart, and you want to be funny, you could have been so much more slick about it.  You know?  You could have hinted at fart in a classy way, or actually even slipped it into the middle of your name, like... IDK, just riffing here.....for some ideas.

You could have gone with CheeseFart, or Beanfart.  I mean, you could have been Fartface or Fartboy, Fartman, Fartgirl, heck you could have been SirFartsalot.  Or just, I LIKe fart.  Fart like me, Fartfan, Stinkyfart, Forfartsake, Fartnight.  Farfromfartin, you could have been BoyfartGas.  But whatever, you did what you did.  I would change it, but that’s just me.

Good luck FART Exterminator.

[BEAR-CUB]

5 minutes ago, Iilaa'mpuul'xem said:

What @Piney said.. he knows me better than anyone. 

I agree with you Piney; no person can know any other person. Mind you, I noticed that in your reply you referred to god as “he”; whereas I refer to god as ‘it’, because if there is such an entity, it would have to be sexless, thus neither male or female. And if god does have a sex and gender what purpose would it serve?, as if god is a ‘he’, implies that it has a penis and other reproductive organs to be found in male humans. Which brings me to the next topic, why would god need a penis and reproductive organs?. I believe that those who wrote and edited the Bible took Jesus’s words literally; for example, in the Bible it states “God created man in his image.”. My understanding of that quote is that Jesus was referring to our eternal selves (our soul) that is created in God’s image. To back this up, it also states in the Bible that “Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of god.”; in other words when a earthling dies a physical death, it is the soul that leaves the physical body before entering the spiritual -realm, while the physical body rots. This then throws doubt to the widely held view and statement in the Bible that says that there were witnesses who saw Jesus’s corpse rise to the heavens, this contradicts the verse in the Bible that states “Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of god.”. 

Hence why I don’t conform to any organised religion, instead I have my own understanding of what god is. 

[zep73]

14 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Ok.

Yeah...in my mind the word “fart” ceases to be truly funny after what....10 or 11 years of age?  But whatever, fart is funny to you.

In my mind fart whatever as part of your username is crass and actually insulting to the forum.  And I’ve noticed that you bonded FART too....like look at me.....I’m a big fart hahaha!  
 

IDK.  It just seems to me that if you like the word fart, and you want to be funny, you could have been so much more slick about it.  You know?  You could have hinted at fart in a classy way, or actually even slipped it into the middle of your name, like... IDK, just riffing here.....for some ideas.

You could have gone with CheeseFart, or Beanfart.  I mean, you could have been Fartface or Fartboy, Fartman, Fartgirl, heck you could have been SirFartsalot.  Or just, I LIKe fart.  Fart like me, Fartfan, Stinkyfart, Forfartsake, Fartnight.  Farfromfartin, you could have been BoyfartGas.  But whatever, you did what you did.  I would change it, but that’s just me.

Good luck FART Exterminator.

Fart is actually an ancient word for journey. It's still used in English as fare. In Scandinavia it still means fare, but it's most commonly used as the word for speed. An example, used in The Simpsons recently, is fart kontrol - a word Bart Simpson had a good laugh about. It of course means speed control, as in when the police measures your speed.

Conclusion: @FART-EXTERMINATOR is just a fancy word for the brakes on a car.

Edited May 6, 2020 by sci-nerd

[Guyver]

11 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

Fart is actually an ancient word for journey. It's still used in English as fare. In Scandinavia it still means fare, but it's most commonly used as the word for speed. An example, used in The Simpsons recently, is fart kontrol - a word Bart Simpson had a good laugh about. It of course means speed control, as in when the police measures your speed.

Conclusion: @FART-EXTERMINATOR is just a fancy word for the brakes on a car.

I’m surprised someone so scientifically minded reached a conclusion so quickly!  Lol.  JK.

Sci, there are many ancient words that are not used anymore for obvious reasons, times change, word meaning change over time.  For example, I guess the English and Australians used to refer to a cigarette as a fag.  I don’t know if they still do or not, but I would be a bit surprised if they do.  Where I’m from, fag is derisive for homosexual.   Now, I’m no Englishman, Swede, or Aussie.  I’m American.  And, where I’m from fart means fart, like you know, a small explosion between the legs resulting in the expulsion of noxious odor.  That’s all fart has ever meant to me, and that’s the only way I’ve ever heard it used.....aside from the joking scold....”you little fart!”  

In any event @FART-EXTERMINATOR, may I call you FART for short, or just Fart for short?  I don’t think he or she was intending to refer to brakes on a car, but it is possible I’m mistaken.

[Piney]

27 minutes ago, FART-EXTERMINATOR said:

I agree with you Piney; no person can know any other person. Mind you, I noticed that in your reply you referred to god as “he”; whereas I refer to god as ‘it’, because if there is such an entity, it would have to be sexless, thus neither male or female. And if god does have a sex and gender what purpose would it serve?, as if god is a ‘he’, implies that it has a penis and other reproductive organs to be found in male humans. Which brings me to the next topic, why would god need a penis and reproductive organs?. I believe that those who wrote and edited the Bible took Jesus’s words literally; for example, in the Bible it states “God created man in his image.”. My understanding of that quote is that Jesus was referring to our eternal selves (our soul) that is created in God’s image. To back this up, it also states in the Bible that “Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of god.”; in other words when a earthling dies a physical death, it is the soul that leaves the physical body before entering the spiritual -realm, while the physical body rots. This then throws doubt to the widely held view and statement in the Bible that says that there were witnesses who saw Jesus’s corpse rise to the heavens, this contradicts the verse in the Bible that states “Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of god.”. 

I'm Piney, Iila was my former "War Brother" and adopted my beliefs. 

[spartan max2]

If an actual God exist I highly doubt it would require worship. Anything else is just human creation.

[Piney]

40 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

I think the Ancient Chinese were the most original thinkers of the lot, and were the first people to identify an impersonal principle as the force behind the universe, i.e. the Tao.  While not science, it is a lot closer than the other guesses.

Tien (The Heavens) originated from the Turkic "Tengri". It is probably the same deity as the Eastern Iranian (Scythian-Sarmatian) Xucau (The Sky).

Dyeus Piter the PIE version was also the personified "sky/heavens"

[SHaYap]

58 minutes ago, Guyver said:

In any event @FART-EXTERMINATOR, may I call you FART for short, or just Fart for short?  I don’t think he or she was intending to refer to brakes on a car, but it is possible I’m mistaken.

"Fart'ex"

Fart deux...

~

[onlookerofmayhem]

Any god that demands worship from it's creation is not worthy of said worship in the first place.

Respect, love, adoration and devotion are earned.

[BEAR-CUB]

25 minutes ago, third_eye said:

"Fart'ex"

Fart deux...

~

Hello Guyver. You may call me fart; however when I joined this forum I have no idea what frame of mind I was in, because 2 days later I was having second thoughts about my username, yes it’s very juvenile, I’m surprised that the moderators haven’t criticised me for my childish username. Anyhow, I want to change my username, how do I go about doing that?

[onlookerofmayhem]

18 minutes ago, FART-EXTERMINATOR said:

how do I go about doing that?

Account>Account Settings>Change Username

[Guyver]

25 minutes ago, FART-EXTERMINATOR said:

Hello Guyver. You may call me fart; however when I joined this forum I have no idea what frame of mind I was in, because 2 days later I was having second thoughts about my username, yes it’s very juvenile, I’m surprised that the moderators haven’t criticised me for my childish username. Anyhow, I want to change my username, how do I go about doing that?

Right on.  You have made a wise decision.  As I have been told as a young craftsman, it’s not broken till it can’t be fixed.

Im pretty sure you could message any moderator and they can help you with that.  But there’s a person here you are already speaking with who is much more knowledgeable than me about this forum, because he is here all day - everyday.  His name is Piney.  Please direct your question to him.

[Dejarma]

5 hours ago, FART-EXTERMINATOR said:

Therefore I believe that ‘worshiping god is a human-construct, not god’s instructions to humans

the idea of god/s is a human-construct

[Will Due]

 

And the idea that....

12 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

the idea of god/s is a human-construct

.....is a human construct.